Defensive Suction, Sliding and Warping

[topwater]

Is anyone else noticing it's back? It's been really bad for me lately. I can have a guy beat and no matter what the situation somehow either he or another defender will warp, go super fast and slide in front of me to contest. Rarely when I beat a guy and they don't get in front of me they somehow warp into me from behind and strip the ball as I attempt to shoot. It's with all types of rosters and sliders. It's as bad as 2K24 was and the game didn't ship like this.

It's not like it's occasional or even a fair amount of the time. It's pretty much every single possession.

[sirjam]

Re: Defensive Suction, Sliding and Warping

Is anyone else noticing it's back? It's been really bad for me lately. I can have a guy beat and no matter what the situation somehow either he or another defender will warp, go super fast and slide in front of me to contest. Rarely when I beat a guy and they don't get in front of me they somehow warp into me from behind and strip the ball as I attempt to shoot. It's with all types of rosters and sliders. It's as bad as 2K24 was and the game didn't ship like this.

It's not like it's occasional or even a fair amount of the time. It's pretty much every single possession.

This is why I switched to all star

[CX1329]

Re: Defensive Suction, Sliding and Warping

It's probably the ratings and badges. I haven't noticed any skating when players are just moving around, but when certain animations are triggered due to the game calculating ratings and defining an outcome, that's when the warping and skating happens. The guy stripping the ball probably has a very high steal rating. This will be more noticeable on higher difficulties, as Sirjam pointed out.

The tech just hasn't reached the level where we can eat our cake and have it too, that is, have perfect foot planting AND have the game respect ratings and make them matter.

[Cold Snap]

Re: Defensive Suction, Sliding and Warping

I wonder how much the Eras hand-checking rule plays into this. Always wondered what the tangible in-game effect of that rule was.

Especially since the original NBA 2K came out in 1999, just after the real NBA changed the rules to end it (and actually enforced it).

Lest we forget, some of the code in 2K25 dates all the way back to that original game.

[topwater]

Re: Defensive Suction, Sliding and Warping

Aside from it being an eyesore and just plain unrealistic looking, it's also bad for the CPU most of the time because regardless of the players or situation it happens, and without any regard for context it pretty much puts their player in foul trouble.

I tried an experiment, as I am really frustrated with it, to see what ratings and/or tendencies affect it. I brought Jalen Brunson's defensive ratings and tendencies down to 25 (he's always sliding in front of me and defending everything like an animal) and from what I can tell there is definitely some fishy stuff going on. He's one of the biggest culprits and despite the changes he still did everything, but to a lesser degree. Not that much less, however. He's basically hard coded to be an absolute savage defensively. He hard fouls, he slides and warps and contests nearly everything. He does it against all stars and 12th men alike regardless of the situation.

Unfortunately the best solution I've found is to lower inside and driving contact to 0, but that's just an awful alternative. I really wish 2K would do a better job of this stuff. It looks terrible and feels worse knowing that the guy a step behind you is going to somehow get in front of you defying the laws of physics. And, at least in my opinion, it's way worse than it was upon release.

[JKSportsGamer1984]

Re: Defensive Suction, Sliding and Warping

Aside from it being an eyesore and just plain unrealistic looking, it's also bad for the CPU most of the time because regardless of the players or situation it happens, and without any regard for context it pretty much puts their player in foul trouble.

I tried an experiment, as I am really frustrated with it, to see what ratings and/or tendencies affect it. I brought Jalen Brunson's defensive ratings and tendencies down to 25 (he's always sliding in front of me and defending everything like an animal) and from what I can tell there is definitely some fishy stuff going on. He's one of the biggest culprits and despite the changes he still did everything, but to a lesser degree. Not that much less, however. He's basically hard coded to be an absolute savage defensively. He hard fouls, he slides and warps and contests nearly everything. He does it against all stars and 12th men alike regardless of the situation.

Unfortunately the best solution I've found is to lower inside and driving contact to 0, but that's just an awful alternative. I really wish 2K would do a better job of this stuff. It looks terrible and feels worse knowing that the guy a step behind you is going to somehow get in front of you defying the laws of physics. And, at least in my opinion, it's way worse than it was upon release.

I feel you bro. It's the last frontier for 2K to get proper foot planting right on defense. The 1st thing i do every year is lower On-Ball defense to 0. I also lower Body Up Sensitivity & Agility (used to be Lateral Quickness). Doing this doesn't eliminate sliding, but it definitely helps with the issues you mentioned.

[topwater]

Re: Defensive Suction, Sliding and Warping

I feel you bro. It's the last frontier for 2K to get proper foot planting right on defense. The 1st thing i do every year is lower On-Ball defense to 0. I also lower Body Up Sensitivity & Agility (used to be Lateral Quickness). Doing this doesn't eliminate sliding, but it definitely helps with the issues you mentioned.

Yeah, I still don't understand their defensive philosophy of every defender being pretty much a robot. Seeing guys sprint down the court, no idea of what's going on 50 feet behind them, turn around and contort in a way that would splinter their legs, just to run 10x faster than anyone else on the court directly to where the pass is going to land was old 15 years ago. It's beyond terrible now, but the sliding and warping to contest is just plain ridiculous. I find it as bad as last year now and it wasn't like this upon release.

I'm going to try All Star I guess. I have turned off my last 12 or so games because I can't stand seeing the guy behind me somehow, magically, end up in front of me, defying physics.

[sirjam]

Re: Defensive Suction, Sliding and Warping

It’s insane the way they program the a.I to have esp in the year 2024. It’s not old gen anymore

[topwater]

Re: Defensive Suction, Sliding and Warping

It’s insane the way they program the a.I to have esp in the year 2024. It’s not old gen anymore

Yeah, it's pretty awful. It's a shame too because when it was released it wasn't that bad at all. Psychic defenders and sliding/warping ruined 24 for me and it just ruined 25 also. You can look on Youtube and watch gameplay from a month ago and you can see plain as day defenders acting like human beings most of the time, as opposed to this garbage.

I'm sure it's to make online play better, which is cool...I get it. Gotta make their money. I can't wait until they either fire whomever thinks physics doesn't matter and thinks psychic defenders is a good idea or they change it so that defenders react and move like actual human beings. I have a feeling I'll be waiting a very long time.

At least there's practice mode where I can marvel at the options I'd be able to do someday if things change.

[Baebae32]

Re: Defensive Suction, Sliding and Warping

Given that dribbling has truly seemed to been “built from the ground up” it gives me hope that defensive on ball and off ball movement can receive the same treatment in time

[Po Pimp]

Re: Defensive Suction, Sliding and Warping

Yeah, I still don't understand their defensive philosophy of every defender being pretty much a robot. Seeing guys sprint down the court, no idea of what's going on 50 feet behind them, turn around and contort in a way that would splinter their legs, just to run 10x faster than anyone else on the court directly to where the pass is going to land was old 15 years ago. It's beyond terrible now, but the sliding and warping to contest is just plain ridiculous. I find it as bad as last year now and it wasn't like this upon release.

I'm going to try All Star I guess. I have turned off my last 12 or so games because I can't stand seeing the guy behind me somehow, magically, end up in front of me, defying physics.

Bro! I’m glad it’s not just me. Some could argue before it was a little easy to get to the cup before, but it FELT right. There weren’t as many missed layups before just because a defender was in the vicinity. I’ve had open lanes to the rim that looked like a clear dunk, but because a defender was 5ft away, it turns into a contact layup. It wasn’t like this at launch.

[topwater]

Re: Defensive Suction, Sliding and Warping

Bro! I’m glad it’s not just me. Some could argue before it was a little easy to get to the cup before, but it FELT right. There weren’t as many missed layups before just because a defender was in the vicinity. I’ve had open lanes to the rim that looked like a clear dunk, but because a defender was 5ft away, it turns into a contact layup. It wasn’t like this at launch.

Yeah, it's awful. Some of the stuff I'm seeing is absolutely bonkos. Forced contact animations, crazy suction and warping. Every defender is way, way better than they should be and can recover and react literally 1 for 1 vs my input. I'm done with it until the patch. If it's not fixed by then, I'll just quit, unfortunately.

[sirjam]

Re: Defensive Suction, Sliding and Warping

Yeah, it's awful. Some of the stuff I'm seeing is absolutely bonkos. Forced contact animations, crazy suction and warping. Every defender is way, way better than they should be and can recover and react literally 1 for 1 vs my input. I'm done with it until the patch. If it's not fixed by then, I'll just quit, unfortunately.

Me too just like last year and the year before that. And basketball is my sport. Smh every year

[topwater]

Re: Defensive Suction, Sliding and Warping

Had some decent games with the CoTY rosters as they have done some really cool thing with ratings and badges. Essentially nobody has good defensive ratings and it was going really well. Then there was an update 2 days ago. Now that roster plays like HoF defenders with max ratings.

Daily updates blow. I uninstalled the game. I think it's pure and utter garbage. Turbo barely works now. I get odd hitch animations when trying to go around a screen, usually just enough to make it so that some defender can slide through the other players. The list is pretty much endless now in regards to how offensive players are neutered when playing against the cpu. I uninstalled because somehow I avoided all contact going around a screen - nothing but air between me and the rim. For no reason at all my guy just does this odd in and out into a hesi which brought him to practically a dead stop. Fighting through magical forcefields to try and go fast, moves/animations I didn't do, defenders that warp 6 feet just to flagrant foul you, etc. I literally haven't had a layup in about 3 days where at least 2 guys don't warp from behind me and try to piledrive me through the floor.

I'm hoping that a fresh install can possibly help, but I'm not too optimistic. The fundamental defense coding is just plain awful. Can't believe I'm actually playing 2K24 now waiting to see if the fresh install helps. Up until recently 24 was what I considered an all time, world class bad game...and it's legit better than 25 imo.

[Shadak]

Re: Defensive Suction, Sliding and Warping

Such a shame because some things in 2k25 are actually pretty good. I find the overall tone, lighting and shading really good, the controls are decent, I can finally turn off HUD elements like the ugly *** line at the bottom or make the circles smaller.

But these things and many others just ruin it, Ive not bought 2k in a long time, tried 2k25 last night and refunded within the 2 hour window. Among many bugs, this warping and odd behaviour is really annoying, i had AI receiving a pass and suddenly noticed his arm lightning warped to the back a bit like it was detached from his body just so he could reach the ball. Jumpers being contested when the defender arrives 3 seconds after the jumper is jumped, etc.

On top of this, I get a main female ref every 2nd game, no offense but is it so many of them in NBA? The whole presentation is odd. And dont get me started on compiling shaders for half hour and when its finished, it compiles additional shaders. On PC they also removed exclusive fullscreen for some dumb ****ing reason which is rediculous for a sports game where input lag is so important.

I went back to my favourite 2k19 and that game is still amazing, works great, controls are responsive and I rarely get odd behaviour.