Honest opinion of the NHL series (Discussion/Whiteboard)

[clou14]

Okay guys, I know. I've heard it time and time again, and I can't help but feel the same way. The NHL series needs to be improved. But rather than spamming the same comments "game sucks", "copy+paste", "fix your game" etc... let's be real here. What would it honestly take for the NHL series to become a W for you? I know there is a lot.. and I've always said this game has so much untapped potential, but unfortunately that's where it stands, and always has. I'll start

I saw a post by Between the Pipes on twitter about human goaltending. Some takeaways that I read were "The experience needs to be rewarding and enjoyable" and I can't deny that. Human goaltending is often just a grind and unfortunately when it comes down to it - you can only lose a game for your club, never win one. No matter how well positioned you are, a goal will squeak through your arm. Goaltending with a .650% is the median and that is just not fun. There was discussion about having a stamina effect - maybe the more pressure in the zone/big lunging saves cause the stamina to drop, and as a result those odd goals that leak in will leak in. But if somebody takes the first shot on goal, you should have that 100% of the time that you are in position. There was talk about vastly improving the post play, as it is known that in real hockey goaltenders utilize their posts in a way that sparks a great advantage to their play. In NHL 22, if you use your posts.. well, you get scored on. It is clunky and unresponsive at times, and there is no reward for holding the proper position. Anyways.. there is a lot in this thread, and I think it is worth a good read: https://twitter.com/eashlgoalie/stat...92435930185735

Although there is a LOT more that I could say about this game, and will definitely post more in this thread... what would it take for this game to win you over again?

[VeNOM3099]

Re: Honest opinion of the NHL series (Discussion/Whiteboard)

Okay guys, I know. I've heard it time and time again, and I can't help but feel the same way. The NHL series needs to be improved. But rather than spamming the same comments "game sucks", "copy+paste", "fix your game" etc... let's be real here. What would it honestly take for the NHL series to become a W for you? I know there is a lot.. and I've always said this game has so much untapped potential, but unfortunately that's where it stands, and always has. I'll start

I saw a post by Between the Pipes on twitter about human goaltending. Some takeaways that I read were "The experience needs to be rewarding and enjoyable" and I can't deny that. Human goaltending is often just a grind and unfortunately when it comes down to it - you can only lose a game for your club, never win one. No matter how well positioned you are, a goal will squeak through your arm. Goaltending with a .650% is the median and that is just not fun. There was discussion about having a stamina effect - maybe the more pressure in the zone/big lunging saves cause the stamina to drop, and as a result those odd goals that leak in will leak in. But if somebody takes the first shot on goal, you should have that 100% of the time that you are in position. There was talk about vastly improving the post play, as it is known that in real hockey goaltenders utilize their posts in a way that sparks a great advantage to their play. In NHL 22, if you use your posts.. well, you get scored on. It is clunky and unresponsive at times, and there is no reward for holding the proper position. Anyways.. there is a lot in this thread, and I think it is worth a good read: https://twitter.com/eashlgoalie/stat...92435930185735

Although there is a LOT more that I could say about this game, and will definitely post more in this thread... what would it take for this game to win you over again?

What would it take to make this game a dub for me? Make it play like hockey. Such a simple request, yet one that EA hasn't been able to deliver since NHL '98 on PC.

Ever since then it's been about finding "The Glitch" that breaks the gameplay in order to score. Whether it was the floater muffin from the blue line that the AI Tendy couldn't handle, to the "S move" in the slot, the dreaded "Curve Shot", the "P!$$ Shot" wraparound, etc... EA's NHL has always about finding that one way to cheese the score and running with it. The counter argument has always been "Well just defend it", so basically you gotta find more cheese to beat out the cheese. GENIUS!! Why didn't I think of that? Sounds like an absolute blast (/sarcasm)

The other point you touch on is one that's near and dear to my heart: human goaltending has always lagged behind. The closest it's ever been to an even footing with the offense was back in NHL 14 on the PS3/Xbox 360. Not because it was any good, but because it was broken enough to keep up even with good shooters. The main difference was that goalies in NHL 14 actually made saves when you wanted to. Stretching your pads, limbs, using their sticks to deflect pucks into the corners or behind you. Basically if you were in position, you made the save. You moved towards the puck, you made a save attempt. Ever since Rammer took over from Litman (who was himself an actual pro Goalie) the position has been basically relegated to being a poor man's Goldberg from the Mighty Ducks movie. Even tied to his posts, he was better at stopping pucks than you could ever dream to be if you play human goalie in this game. When human goaltending will be able to keep up with the offense, then I'll take notice. Then I'll give this series another chance.

It's not that the game "sucks", it's that the people making it don't want to put out the effort to make it better. It all starts with the one directing the vision. Bad leadership, bad game. You can add all the features and silly Fortnite intros to impress the 10 yr olds into spending mommy and daddy's credit card on HUT pax... Until they scale it back and finally fix the problems this series has had for decades now and really go back to basics by making a good HOCKEY foundation first (then add all the arcade features you want), EA's NHL will never be as good as it can be.

[bryta47]

Re: Honest opinion of the NHL series (Discussion/Whiteboard)

When I play Project Cars 2 - it feels like I'm racing a fast sportscar.

When I play Elden Ring - it feels like I'm off to adventure in a fantastic world.

When I play EA NHL - it just feels like I'm playing a boring videogame.

There is no hockey immersion. Very underwhelming. The game does not feel like hockey at all. To me, it's more like a cross between virtual bumper cars and pinball with laggy and random inputs and immature commentary.

You can't approach the gameplay with hockey in mind. If you try to play hockey, you get punished by the game instantly. You have to conform to a "this is a videogame I want to beat"-mentality of sorts. Again: no hockey immersion. Somehow EA managed to make the most exhilarating sports in the world ... boring. Amazing really.

The absolutely biggest issue with the game is the horrendous A.I. It's gotten only minimal improvements over the years - still every new iteration brings new problems. Overall there is no creativity programmed in the A.I - it does the same thing over and over and when you learned all its tricks, there is no meaning playing anymore. The A.I has cheat inputs and also have no clue on have to make realistic plays ... powerplay, defense, taking shots, positioning awareness ... it's not hockey - it's just nonsense. Bumpercars. Pinball. Pushing buttons.

And I'm not even gonna touch the full circus that is online gameplay.

In my mind EA is in way to deep with the NHL-series and have too much of a disconnect in regards to the sport. They will never change their philosophy on the game. The only hope for video game hockey is another game company stepping in. Therefore, we should all stop buying EA NHL to help that happen.

EA NHL is a dead end for hockey fans and a scam game.

[shanev]

Re: Honest opinion of the NHL series (Discussion/Whiteboard)

The attributes are good, but there obviously needs to be more distinction between every player. If it was easier to edit, I’ve often thought about doing massive edits to see if that helps gameplay, but the editor is so bad I’ve never wanted to put in the time

I’ve often wondered if motion capture is part of their problem. The gameplay is probably forced to move at a certain pace because of it, causing the game speed to change and causing glitches that a user can exploit.

I think the ideal scenario would be to bring the game back to basics, make each player like an RPG, code each position’s logic, and give a player a rating at each position that grows with experience. Just one slider that controls speed for you and the computer. Game is easier if you play with veterans and a higher player speed, and hardest when you play with youth and a higher computer speed. Obviously tweaked from there, but you get the idea.

The problem is that EA has to look good, and the new online model has to make money, so unless a third party designs a new game, like Mega Baseball, then we’re stuck going further down the wrong road




Sent from my iPad using Operation Sports

[chrisg19]

Re: Honest opinion of the NHL series (Discussion/Whiteboard)

Haven't played the series, except a handful of times, over the last few years. The thing that drove me away from the series was the fact that each goalie, and each team played the same. It was the same mechanics underneath with a new skin overlay each game. It just got stale so quickly. What could bring me back to the series was a true differentiation in teams and players. When you played with Ovechkin in any of the 2K games you could differentiate from playing with a Ryan Reaves type player. True differentiation in the game would go a long way in my opinion.

[jrp1918]

Re: Honest opinion of the NHL series (Discussion/Whiteboard)

Delete ........

[Cardot]

Re: Honest opinion of the NHL series (Discussion/Whiteboard)

I date back to the original EA NHL games in the 90's. Fun times. In the 2000's I bounced back and forth between EA & 2K (Golden Era!!!). In 2008 EA was revolutionizing the game with the skill stick and there was a ton to like about that game.....but there were some nagging issues that I couldn't get past. (Note I am not hardcore sim...nor very good. LOL)

1. No option for a short season.
2. Teams possess the puck with multiple passes at even strength like they are on the power play. Probably by design, but not super realistic. Tic Tac Toe.
3. CPU has an uncanny ability to frequently score moments after I score.
4. And a little thing that I think only bothers me, but the clock is accelerated until the last minute. I like 5 minute periods, so the "Last Minute" ends up being 20% of the period. There should be an option for this. 2K had some nice options are the clock acceleration as well as the length of penalties.

These things bugged me in 2008.....and I don't think they have changed in the last 14 years.

[jr86]

Re: Honest opinion of the NHL series (Discussion/Whiteboard)

Well number 1 is fixed, I guess you could take that as a W...lol:wink:

[Money99]

Re: Honest opinion of the NHL series (Discussion/Whiteboard)

I date back to the original EA NHL games in the 90's. Fun times. In the 2000's I bounced back and forth between EA & 2K (Golden Era!!!). In 2008 EA was revolutionizing the game with the skill stick and there was a ton to like about that game.....but there were some nagging issues that I couldn't get past. (Note I am not hardcore sim...nor very good. LOL)

1. No option for a short season.
2. Teams possess the puck with multiple passes at even strength like they are on the power play. Probably by design, but not super realistic. Tic Tac Toe.
3. CPU has an uncanny ability to frequently score moments after I score.
4. And a little thing that I think only bothers me, but the clock is accelerated until the last minute. I like 5 minute periods, so the "Last Minute" ends up being 20% of the period. There should be an option for this. 2K had some nice options are the clock acceleration as well as the length of penalties.

These things bugged me in 2008.....and I don't think they have changed in the last 14 years.

Agreed.
I basically haven't played an EA NHL game with any sort of regularity since maybe 2010 or 2011.
I'd still stupidly buy them, play for a week or so then never touch it again.
Lately, I buy them for my youngest son who loves CHEL and EASHL.
But when I try to play an offline game, I usually end up quitting half-way thru.

The game still suffers from a real lack of player differential. You can't tell one playing style from the other. And the players I control always feel like they're skating in mud, can't handle the puck, or make bad passes; even when controlling elite players.
Meanwhile, the CPU is able to pull of moves I can only dream of, thread needles, snipe and defend regardless of what player it's controlling.
Watching a 4th line scrub execute a behind-the-back saucer pass for an easy one-timer tap-in, past my All-star defenseman (sometimes two!) is something I saw all the time.

The AI in the game has been horrific for a long time. So the developers just give the CPU boosts to accommodate it's stupidity.

Some of the changes/additions they've made for '23 have me excited. But then I remember, for every new feature or tool that helps the human player, the more boosts the CPU is likely to get in order to counteract the new tools at the human players disposal.

At this point, I'm going to hold out hope that MetalHead is given the green light to make a fun, over the top hockey game similar to Super Mega Baseball.
While that game has a silly appearance, the gameplay is actually really solid. If EA allows them to make a hockey game, I'd be all in.

[VeNOM3099]

Re: Honest opinion of the NHL series (Discussion/Whiteboard)

Agreed.
At this point, I'm going to hold out hope that MetalHead is given the green light to make a fun, over the top hockey game similar to Super Mega Baseball.
While that game has a silly appearance, the gameplay is actually really solid. If EA allows them to make a hockey game, I'd be all in.

It's not up to them. EA does NOT have sole rights to the NHL and/or NHLPA license.

Technically we could have NHL games from the likes of 2K, Microsoft, Sony, anyone! What's stopping them? EA's propaganda machine is 2nd to none and it would be likely another hockey game would come out to poor sales. That's what killed franchises like 989 Sports NHL Face-Off, NHL 2K and XSN NHL Rivals; you can't keep spending if there's no money coming in.

So EA isn't what's stopping MetalHead. It's up to them if they wanna risk the investment on the (likely) possibility of poor (no?) returns.

[Money99]

Re: Honest opinion of the NHL series (Discussion/Whiteboard)

It's not up to them. EA does NOT have sole rights to the NHL and/or NHLPA license.

Technically we could have NHL games from the likes of 2K, Microsoft, Sony, anyone! What's stopping them? EA's propaganda machine is 2nd to none and it would be likely another hockey game would come out to poor sales. That's what killed franchises like 989 Sports NHL Face-Off, NHL 2K and XSN NHL Rivals; you can't keep spending if there's no money coming in.

So EA isn't what's stopping MetalHead. It's up to them if they wanna risk the investment on the (likely) possibility of poor (no?) returns.

I believe EA purchased Metalhead, which is why I'm hoping they are open minded to allowing them to develop other sports.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

[Jeffrey99]

Re: Honest opinion of the NHL series (Discussion/Whiteboard)

It's not up to them. EA does NOT have sole rights to the NHL and/or NHLPA license.

Technically we could have NHL games from the likes of 2K, Microsoft, Sony, anyone! What's stopping them? EA's propaganda machine is 2nd to none and it would be likely another hockey game would come out to poor sales. That's what killed franchises like 989 Sports NHL Face-Off, NHL 2K and XSN NHL Rivals; you can't keep spending if there's no money coming in.

So EA isn't what's stopping MetalHead. It's up to them if they wanna risk the investment on the (likely) possibility of poor (no?) returns.

I am kinda surprised someone hasn't attempted a game in the past decade. Sure hockey has a smaller player base than most other sports but even if it was just a PC release (which has no NHL game other than the management type of Franchise Hockey Manager.)

[VeNOM3099]

Re: Honest opinion of the NHL series (Discussion/Whiteboard)

I am kinda surprised someone hasn't attempted a game in the past decade. Sure hockey has a smaller player base than most other sports but even if it was just a PC release (which has no NHL game other than the management type of Franchise Hockey Manager.)

My guess is that the moment that happens, EA will absolutely make a PC version of their game to take away all sales from the competition.

Even if they did an NHL 07 PC kinda game (look it up, it was hot garbage) where it wasn't even up to console standards, people would FLOCK to buy a crappy EA NHL game over anyone else's version... Even if the game was good.

That's probably what's scaring other companies from trying.

[LegendKillerOne]

Re: Honest opinion of the NHL series (Discussion/Whiteboard)

Really is not much to add, Was a great game in the 90's mid 2000's. Has been very average ever since. For all the graphic improvements over the years they forgot how much gameplay matters. The lack of strategic offense on the AI part has been an issue for so long. Just sit in the middle in front of goalie AI will be here shortly to get checked off the puck

I love playing hockey video games I am hoping one day they will get the AI offense back on track to mixing up how it tries to score and play strategy and I can once again play hockey games.