Hard programmed "Good" teams

[thedudescrew]

I have run several test Sims the last few days and want to share the outcomes.

A little backstory on why I am doing this is my buddy and I want to do a Dynasty with a P5 team but we want them to go through years of bad play and bad coaches. We have forced losses and demoted several schools to smaller conferences and have intentionally not recruited any player. The teams have the bare minimum players. Here is the problem we are running into.

Notre Dame and Florida State are the two schools we want to use. They won't drop below a 2 star prestige and even will no recruiting they field an 85+ OVR team. They will go 0-15 and still go up to 2.5 or 3 stars for no reason. I have tried the same thing with Michigan and Ohio State and have had the same results. Yet when my Army Dynasty has a down year they go from 4.5 to 3. How's that work?

Just curious if anyone else has tried this or if you have any tips on making a P5 school a 1.5 star school. Thanks. I am wondering if it has to do with the My School ratings. The fact both have Program Tradition, Academics and Campus Lifestyle might be holding them up.

[Feros Ferio 7]

Re: Hard programmed "Good" teams

Hmm sounds like real life. These schools even during bad spells are still prestigious football programs.


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[GoDucks1224]

Re: Hard programmed "Good" teams

Hmm sounds like real life. These schools even during bad spells are still prestigious football programs.


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Yeah, I agree with this. Unless one of these all time programs gets an actual death penalty, or has 40 years of terrible seasons, there is no way they’d ever fall that far. Nebraska hasn’t been relevant in 15 years, and they haven’t won a title since the 90’s. But they’re still Nebraska. They’re still considered a blue blood. They’re still nationally discussed. Notre Dame hasn’t won a championship since 88. Their win against A&M was the first against an SEC program since 2009. But they’re still talked about. They’re still nationally relevant every year. Even when they had 6 win seasons.

OP I understand you want some kind of challenge with these bigger programs. But I just don’t think it is nor should be possible to get them to on par with G5 schools.

[thedudescrew]

Re: Hard programmed "Good" teams

Yeah, I agree with this. Unless one of these all time programs gets an actual death penalty, or has 40 years of terrible seasons, there is no way they’d ever fall that far. Nebraska hasn’t been relevant in 15 years, and they haven’t won a title since the 90’s. But they’re still Nebraska. They’re still considered a blue blood. They’re still nationally discussed. Notre Dame hasn’t won a championship since 88. Their win against A&M was the first against an SEC program since 2009. But they’re still talked. They’re still nationally relevant every year. Even when they had 6 win seasons.

OP I understand you want some kind of challenge with these bigger programs. But I just don’t think it is nor should be possible to get them to on par with G5 schools.

Damn, yeah I never thought about it like that. Fair point and I believe this is the answer. Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[jello1717]

Re: Hard programmed "Good" teams

I’ve seen the opposite with my ODU dynasty and have a good working theory as to why. With ODU they start as a 1 ⭐️ and it took me until my 4th season to get them up to 2 ⭐️. Below is why that is (and I’m sure the opposite is true of FSU and ND).

The main gist is that “Team Prestige is the composite value of all of your My School grades.” (Taken straight from the My School page in dynasty)

And this is combined with 2 other factors.
(1) Two grades are permanent and never change (campus lifestyle and academics)
(2) Some of my school grades are dependent upon team prestige, which creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. The following are all dependent in some amount on school prestige:
Stadium atmosphere, Conference prestige, Athletic facilities

So if your campus lifestyle and academics are high, they’ll forever help elevate your team prestige (or if they suck balls like ODU’s, they’ll help keep you low). Then for the self-fulfilling ones, if the grades are high, that helps keep the prestige high, which keeps the grades high, which helps……

Then there are the 2nd level effects (which might not be applicable if you never recruit for a team, but are applicable to normal play) where for example, good recruiting leads to players being drafted which leads to higher prestige, which leads to better recruiting, etc, etc.

TLDR, the way the team prestige is calculated and it’s interdependence on team grades makes it tough for teams on the edges of prestige (very low prestige or very high) to change their prestige. I think the only ones that’d be easier to change are crappy prestige school with high campus lifestyle and academics or high prestige schools with crappy academics and lifestyle.

[moTIGS]

Re: Hard programmed "Good" teams

Yeah, I agree with this. Unless one of these all time programs gets an actual death penalty, or has 40 years of terrible seasons, there is no way they’d ever fall that far. Nebraska hasn’t been relevant in 15 years, and they haven’t won a title since the 90’s. But they’re still Nebraska. They’re still considered a blue blood. They’re still nationally discussed. Notre Dame hasn’t won a championship since 88. Their win against A&M was the first against an SEC program since 2009. But they’re still talked. They’re still nationally relevant every year. Even when they had 6 win seasons.

OP I understand you want some kind of challenge with these bigger programs. But I just don’t think it is nor should be possible to get them to on par with G5 schools.

Notre Dame has at least played for a title fairly recently, though, even if they didn't win it.

Nebraska's kind of on the verge of losing that national relevance. About the only thing still keeping it going is how rabid their fans are. If they didn't flip Raiola (who's the son of a Nebraska legend), I'm not sure they'd even be on the verge. They might be fully into "not really nationally relevant at all" territory. But yeah, it's basically taken 20 years to get to that point. (My personal belief is they're never going to get back to being elite. The things they used to reach and maintain a dominant level just aren't available to them the way they used to be.)

The key factor keeping both teams at least in some national conversations has been their huge fan following. When you build up a fan base over several decades, they tend to not go away just from a few bad seasons, or even a couple bad decades.

I'd be curious to know whether the amount of time a program has maintained high prestige in the game affects how quickly they can lose it.

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: Hard programmed "Good" teams

If Nebraska really wanted to have ten win seasons again, the first thing they should have done is rejoin the Big12. I feel like that ship may have sailed now tho.

[noarmsduck]

Re: Hard programmed "Good" teams

Yeah, I agree with this. Unless one of these all time programs gets an actual death penalty, or has 40 years of terrible seasons, there is no way they’d ever fall that far. Nebraska hasn’t been relevant in 15 years, and they haven’t won a title since the 90’s. But they’re still Nebraska. They’re still considered a blue blood. They’re still nationally discussed. Notre Dame hasn’t won a championship since 88. Their win against A&M was the first against an SEC program since 2009. But they’re still talked about. They’re still nationally relevant every year. Even when they had 6 win seasons.

OP I understand you want some kind of challenge with these bigger programs. But I just don’t think it is nor should be possible to get them to on par with G5 schools.

Yeah I graduated from Notre Dame in 2010 so my time there lined up with the Charlie Weis years. Obviously there was always hype on campus, but even the media still treated them as a threat every year. And after Brady Quinn left the best we did was 7-6 under Weis.