2k's Game Engine needs changing!

[Bornindamecca]

Or does it?

This discussion erupted in the Live forum and I think it's interesting. 2k obviously has something that works, but we don't want them to turn into Madden. On the other hand, you don't just throw a good thing away because it's getting familiar. You try to improve it to perfection until the limitations force a change.

Who thinks the engine needs to be started over from the ground up?


There are two major changes I'd like to see in 2k, and they both have to do with physics.

-Better ball physics. No more warping, magnetiism and loose balls that land neatly at players' feet. Give us a real ball, with a life of its own and a physics engine, so the randomness of real life basketball can be reflected in the game.

-Better player physics. Right now there is a weird shield around the players when they make contact. If I charge from one side of the screen to the other and run headlong into a player, I should knock him down, and possibly hurt him. Right now that's not even a situation in the game. Defense is based on getting into position without too much contact. We don't have the option for too much contact. There was some semblance of this in College Hoops 2k7. When guys went up for layups, you could turbo into them and knock the hell out of them. Now that's basketball

2k plays a great game right now, but is that game a declining vet, or reaching it's prime?

[SageInfinite]

Re: 2k's Game Engine needs changing!

2k can't afford to change its engine. I for 1 don't think it needs any changing. Just tweaks. Seems like they have so many different animations every year and they just keep adding on. I think its been proven its a pretty flexible engine.

[jewelz1132]

Re: 2k's Game Engine needs changing!

It doesnt need a new engine..but take madden for example, every year it may have something in it that kills the game experience, but it looks and feels completely different every year..

[edubbs]

Re: 2k's Game Engine needs changing!

I think the game engine is fine.

They are able to pack a boat load of new animations into the game every year, that keeps the game fresh 'for me' all the way through the entire NBA season IRL.

I think ALOT of people have grown tired of the visuals though. There were rumors of a new graphics engine last year for 2k8, but that never happened.

The visuals have been probably the part of the game with the less upgrades, for those people with issues with the title getting stale.

However, it's good to hear that everyone who has seen the game (2k9) in motion has been VERY positive about the impovements of the visuals this year with the "2k HD feature".

Significant improvents to the player models and graphics in general, combined with the endless amount of animations they add each year 'could' possibly net the total package this year.

[bateman11]

Re: 2k's Game Engine needs changing!

I do somewhat agree with the OP. Good post. You made two very valid points there.

[USF11]

Re: 2k's Game Engine needs changing!

I dunno a new engine leads to problems somewhere else.

[aholbert32]

Re: 2k's Game Engine needs changing!

NO NEW ENGINE!!! Just tweak it because its damn good.

[Aces15]

Re: 2k's Game Engine needs changing!

I dunno a new engine leads to problems somewhere else.

True, they already have a solid game of basketball, and changing the engine would just cause too many things that they need to tweak to make it work properly. All they have to do is perfect what they already have.

[Goffs]

Re: 2k's Game Engine needs changing!

NO NEW ENGINE!!! Just tweak it because its damn good.

CO-SIGN!

[kwas676]

Re: 2k's Game Engine needs changing!

Yeah i agree the player to player contact needs major improvement cause the whole lebron dunking over 4 people in the paint is down right annoying. I haven't really seen any update videos of 2k9 so i can say it hasn't changed.

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: 2k's Game Engine needs changing!

The term ‘engine’ in reference to videogames is so ambiguous it’s meaningless especially with sports games. Its possible to dramatically change the physics by changing the engine. That begs the question.
<O
How much can you change an engine before you call it a new engine? When they added full cloth physics did they change the engine?

<O</OAlso a lot of NBA 2k8's obvious problems were fixed in CH 2k8 and that game has the same engine as NBA 2k8. You dont have all that ridiculous dunking, and lead passing ghost balls in CH 2k8. The first thing NBA 2k9 needs is CH 2k8. If VC build's from that game almost all of the annoying issues folks complain about will be remedied.<O</O

[J.R. Locke]

Re: 2k's Game Engine needs changing!

I agree.

[jewelz1132]

Re: 2k's Game Engine needs changing!

hell if they fix playcalling to a point where it flows like an actual NBA game or even the old Pistons @ Sonics trailer back in 05, I probably wouldn't care about any other problem in 2K9

[RainZ]

Re: 2k's Game Engine needs changing!

Or does it?

This discussion erupted in the Live forum and I think it's interesting. 2k obviously has something that works, but we don't want them to turn into Madden. On the other hand, you don't just throw a good thing away because it's getting familiar. You try to improve it to perfection until the limitations force a change.

Who thinks the engine needs to be started over from the ground up?


There are two major changes I'd like to see in 2k, and they both have to do with physics.

-Better ball physics. No more warping, magnetiism and loose balls that land neatly at players' feet. Give us a real ball, with a life of its own and a physics engine, so the randomness of real life basketball can be reflected in the game.

-Better player physics. Right now there is a weird shield around the players when they make contact. If I charge from one side of the screen to the other and run headlong into a player, I should knock him down, and possibly hurt him. Right now that's not even a situation in the game. Defense is based on getting into position without too much contact. We don't have the option for too much contact. There was some semblance of this in College Hoops 2k7. When guys went up for layups, you could turbo into them and knock the hell out of them. Now that's basketball

2k plays a great game right now, but is that game a declining vet, or reaching it's prime?

Great points Born, as usual.
I really feel that this year, if any, will be the true test of the current engine, and if it lives up to expectations we may all say after its release that we dont want it changed. Thinking on it though, they Are going to change the engine within the next few years. We really aren't that far away from a whole new generation of consoles, and with that comes all new development.

You touch on two great points regarding ball and player physics, but i don't think we will see everything we want until the next generation of consoles with increased physics/gpu capabilities. I would be all for it just to have the option of hammering someone who tries to go up for a weak sauce layup. This is the NBA after all..easy layups just shouldnt be an option.

[Tha_Kid]

Re: 2k's Game Engine needs changing!

To answer Born's question, I think its time for the engine to hang up. For those of you who feel about the engine the way i feel about the celtics big 3, I understand but i'll say this: a new engine with some flaws can depending on the person be better than the old engine tweaked, IF that person has soured on the engine. For example, some people still play Inside Drive 2004 or NBA Starting Five 2005, neither of those games are anywhere close to 2k8. But they both destroy 2K4 & 2k5. This engine is a thoroughly tweaked version of 2k4's engine and while the overall feel is night & day from that game, theres still remnants.

2k3 played a damn good game of ball, but apparently that engine reached its limit it areas only the developers could shed light on. But I doubt many people would vouch for 2k4 (or even 2k5) over 2k3 when it came to the game on the court. People had a year or two of a sub par game from 2K before they got their act together with 2k6. Would it be worth it to get a new current gen engine to match the power of these systems? I don't know the technology, maybe it isn't. My uninformed opinion on it is that its time for a change.

A couple of years ago I compared continually tweaking 2k4's engine to "polishing a turd". While i'd stil lean that way concering the xbox/ps2 iterations, obviously they blew my away with what they could do with it on these current systems. Still, I think game feels stale a couple weeks into the NBA season, and thats because it feels like the same game underneath the polish.

That said, the stuff Born listed in his first post would go a long way, but i'm operating under the belief they can't add those to this engine because, why wouldn't they have done this by now, or at least made strides?