Does 2K have Fair-Weather Football Fans?

[Juggernaut XX]

Are we Fair-Weather Fans? Prior to APF 2K8 being released, it appeared that all 2K fans were practically begging for a game. It also appeared that 2K fans knew that another 2K game would not have the NFL license. Regardless of knowing that another 2K game would not have the NFL license, the demand for a new game appeared to be huge.

Now, take a step back in time and ask yourself how you felt when 2k lost the NFL license. Most of us were very disappointed, and thought that another 2K football game was unlikely to happen. Not only were we disappointed that 2K football was gone, we had to also endure very poor quality Madden games. We were in a video football game recession for two years.

Now, take a step forward to the announcement of APF 2k8. If I can recall correctly, that day seemed like a holiday for 2K football fans. After witnessing Madden's first and second attempts on the next-gen systems, I thought that any playable game would resurrect the 2K faithful. Boy, was I wrong.

Despite having a good football game from 2K, the masses appeared to attack the game with negative remarks. Instead of viewing the game as a first attempt, and a solid foundation to build on, the game was condemned by its own supporters. Those same supporters indicated that they would be happy with any kind of a 2K football game. Now, the same supporters are mad for various reasons, and forgot that most of them indicated that they only wanted another 2K football game.

If you were a 2K Director, would you invest money in another game that its own fan base rejected? Do you think that the 2K football team had to lobby for the approval to create APF 2K8? Do you also think they used the fan support, 2K5 sales, and poor quality Madden games as a basis to release another game? What reasons could they argue to release another 2K football game now?

It appears that Fair-weather 2K Fans need to acknowledge one simple fact. They will never be happy with any game, unless it has the NFL license. Personally, I think that APF 2K8 is a very good game, with the potential to be great. I also understand why one of the 2K Producers said "just shut up and play the game". If you think about it, he was right. If people would have just played the game, instead of complaining about what it does not have, they would find that it plays a very good game of football.

[capa]

Re: Does 2K have Fair-Weather Football Fans?

The problem with that argument is that it is akin to telling a painter you want your house painted blue and he paints it white and tells you to shutup and just be happy it was painted.

2K did not exactly deliver what their hardcore fans wanted for APF2K8, They delivered what THEY wanted to as far as league structure goes, ability to edit rosters, players, etc. They did not listen to their loyal fan base on many design points.

They did do a great job on animations and tweaking gameplay, but they ignored what the masses were calling for - a more customizable game.

C

[daflyboys]

Re: Does 2K have Fair-Weather Football Fans?

How did they really know what their fan base was saying? All we know is what was being said around here. Like 2K with their hockey game, maybe if the company would have listened to the hardcore players who understand the game, we would be having a different discussion right now.

[Steven547]

Re: Does 2K have Fair-Weather Football Fans?

How did they really know what their fan base was saying? All we know is what was being said around here. Like 2K with their hockey game, maybe if the company would have listened to the hardcore players who understand the game, we would be having a different discussion right now.

I agree %100 with that statement. All 2k had to do was listen to the fans, but lately, that's been a far fetched thing for 2k.

[capa]

Re: Does 2K have Fair-Weather Football Fans?

I doubt anyone anywhere was saying "Yes...make the game with legends playing alongside unknown generic players, and don't allow us to do much editing at all for anything. Oh yeah, make sure to make the league structure totally new and different than what exists today in the real NFL. And don't forget to trick out those stadiums with fire breathing dragons and replicas of fighter jets too! We've been waiting for that for ages."

Well, you get the idea. They made the game THEY wanted to make. Not any of their fans - hardcore or otherwise.

C

[claystone]

Re: Does 2K have Fair-Weather Football Fans?

Like everyone stated above. 2k made a football game that wasn't really a football game as we know it. If they could have taken 2k5 and just improved on that game, it would have been fine. But instead they made a game that had (1) season with no FA / draft / etc. They could have made generic players which we could have customized into real NFL players.

It blows my mind that companies turn a deaf ear to their customers. All the info of what we want in a game is right here. Just listen to us and make the game. Why is that so difficult to do. 2K5 was a major hit. Now improve on that game. I really wish i could find game developers to help create a football game that we are looking to play.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Does 2K have Fair-Weather Football Fans?

Are we Fair-Weather Fans? Prior to APF 2K8 being released, it appeared that all 2K fans were practically begging for a game. It also appeared that 2K fans knew that another 2K game would not have the NFL license. Regardless of knowing that another 2K game would not have the NFL license, the demand for a new game appeared to be huge.

Now, take a step back in time and ask yourself how you felt when 2k lost the NFL license. Most of us were very disappointed, and thought that another 2K football game was unlikely to happen. Not only were we disappointed that 2K football was gone, we had to also endure very poor quality Madden games. We were in a video football game recession for two years.

Now, take a step forward to the announcement of APF 2k8. If I can recall correctly, that day seemed like a holiday for 2K football fans. After witnessing Madden's first and second attempts on the next-gen systems, I thought that any playable game would resurrect the 2K faithful. Boy, was I wrong.

Despite having a good football game from 2K, the masses appeared to attack the game with negative remarks. Instead of viewing the game as a first attempt, and a solid foundation to build on, the game was condemned by its own supporters. Those same supporters indicated that they would be happy with any kind of a 2K football game. Now, the same supporters are mad for various reasons, and forgot that most of them indicated that they only wanted another 2K football game.

If you were a 2K Director, would you invest money in another game that its own fan base rejected? Do you think that the 2K football team had to lobby for the approval to create APF 2K8? Do you also think they used the fan support, 2K5 sales, and poor quality Madden games as a basis to release another game? What reasons could they argue to release another 2K football game now?

It appears that Fair-weather 2K Fans need to acknowledge one simple fact. They will never be happy with any game, unless it has the NFL license. Personally, I think that APF 2K8 is a very good game, with the potential to be great. I also understand why one of the 2K Producers said "just shut up and play the game". If you think about it, he was right. If people would have just played the game, instead of complaining about what it does not have, they would find that it plays a very good game of football.

This is the problem. The "shut up and play" concept is what doomed this game. Yes, you could customize team structure and appearance, but only on the surface. The game was ALL "sut up and play" and NO immersion.

There is no doubt the game plays excellent football. What they did was take 2K5 and improve upon it's weaker areas. What's funny though, one of 2K5's biggest strength, presentation, was stripped down and disappointing in APF. I don't think the game was made for the fans, as you imply. I think what 2K did was rely to much on the idea that the fans would be loyal. I enjoy 2K5 much better, despite some flaws, than I do APF. It's not just the NFL license either. It's the tremendous presentation and game depth.

APF was supposedly in the works for awhile, so the excuse of "good first effort" goes out the window, IMO. It was actually a poor first effort if you think about what 2K5 was. I think if we are going to hold EA's feet to the fire on those points, the same should apply for 2K. They dropped the ball. Aside from their basketball, they've been dropping the ball on "next gen" a lot.

If they went back to the drawing board, read the criticism for APF, and listened to their fanbase, they might be able to make a more supported non-NFL football game. You can't just rely on loyalty. They're a company. I'm as loyal to them as they are to me. I'l happily support them if I like their product

[puja21]

Re: Does 2K have Fair-Weather Football Fans?

APF was supposedly in the works for awhile, so the excuse of "good first effort" goes out the window, IMO. It was actually a poor first effort if you think about what 2K5 was. I think if we are going to hold EA's feet to the fire on those points, the same should apply for 2K. They dropped the ball. Aside from their basketball, they've been dropping the ball on "next gen" a lot.

If they went back to the drawing board, read the criticism for APF, and listened to their fanbase, they might be able to make a more supported non-NFL football game. You can't just rely on loyalty. They're a company. I'm as loyal to them as they are to me. I'l happily support them if I like their product

Agree 100% with every last word

[Jet Sufferer]

Re: Does 2K have Fair-Weather Football Fans?

Agree 100% with every last word

2k owes us another football game. I love APF but 2k5 is still better, they left a few too many holes in the gameplay in 2k8. It seems like a beta version.

[gta95]

Re: Does 2K have Fair-Weather Football Fans?

2k owes us another football game. I love APF but 2k5 is still better, they left a few too many holes in the gameplay in 2k8. It seems like a beta version.

What? I played 2k5 as much as all of yall but 2K8 is the best playing football game ever. Infact, 2k5 was the buggier game, and 2k8 improved on many of the gameplay aspects that 2k5 had a little trouble with

[Steelersfan85]

Re: Does 2K have Fair-Weather Football Fans?

I still play 2k8, not as much as 2k5 but I still play online sometimes. It has great gameplay but NO Franchise really hurt this game for me. I would be fine if it had generic teams and rosters as long as it had the great 2k gameplay and a FRANCHISE. Being able to recreate the NFL would be icing on the cake.

[Cardot]

Re: Does 2K have Fair-Weather Football Fans?

I am still playing 2K5 myself.

I tried 2K8, but couldn't get into it. I don't play much online, and that was a big focus of the game. Also, while I am 38 years old, and many of the legends should have been right up my alley.....I couldn't really get into them.

I am also in the "customize camp". What was a real bummer to me, was they already had a great uniform editor. All they had to do was allow us to edit CPU teams, have 32 teams and give us a pixel editor. Add in the 2K Share that was introduced in Choops. But they didn't want to upset the NFL....yeah, that worked out well.

[pietasterp]

Re: Does 2K have Fair-Weather Football Fans?

I'd say the LAST phrase you could use to describe 2K fans is "fair-weather". No group of enthusiasts has been more loyal to a company than 2K's fans, who have fought tirelessly since back in the Dreamcast days to convert the infidels to the gospel of 2K. APF2K8 wouldn't even have been released were it not for the ardent (and vocal) support of what turned out to be a very vocal minority. But, as has been pointed out accurately in this thread prior, they did not deliver with APF2K - plain and simple. What everyone universally, unequivocally wanted with that game, without any exception, was a fully-customizable football engine that would have been the videogame version of an errector set (which is to say, we could make what we wanted out of the building blocks). What we got was a stipped-down, barely-updated 2K5 engine with virtually no customizable options and a lifeless "league" which was a strange mish-mash of "legends" and CPU-created drones, coupled with an unnecessarily constraining team-building mechanism which turned team creation into more of a game of Dungeons-and-Dragons than a game of football wits.

2K had my undying loyalty at one point in time (as any perusal of my past posts will attest), but they have turned their back on the things I loved most about their games. With NHL2K refusing to innovate, MLB2K not making the strides towards becoming the XBox equivalent of "MLB The Show", the total abandonment of College Hoops 2K (I would argue their best series after NFL2K), and the unmitigated failure to deliver a product fans wanted with APF2K8 (without any apparent plans to follow this up with a legitimate football effort), the only product left on the 2K roster that appeals to me is NBA2K, which only pumps me up so much year-to-year. I still think they have it in them to create the best sports games known to man, uncompromisingly for and of the sports-game enthusiast, but they appear to no longer have the necessary commitment to do so. There are probably good economic reasons for their current strategy (as is so often the case, economics and "fun" are in direct opposition), but it leaves us sports gamers with little, if anything, to cheer about in the current gaming environment. The collective "shrug" from gamers is the sound of a once-promising sports gaming dynasty fading into the distance...I hate to say it, but my flame has been extinguished.

[baa7]

Re: Does 2K have Fair-Weather Football Fans?

I doubt anyone anywhere was saying "Yes...make the game with legends playing alongside unknown generic players, and don't allow us to do much editing at all for anything. Oh yeah, make sure to make the league structure totally new and different than what exists today in the real NFL. And don't forget to trick out those stadiums with fire breathing dragons and replicas of fighter jets too! We've been waiting for that for ages."

Well, you get the idea. They made the game THEY wanted to make. Not any of their fans - hardcore or otherwise.

C

It took 'til the end of December, but we finally have a winner! Post of the Year!

[SweetButter]

Re: Does 2K have Fair-Weather Football Fans?

I'd bet my left arm that the bad decisions made concerning 2K8 were by suits armed with some nonsense marketing data trying to capture Madden fans with the legends.

I love 2K8 for playing my buddies online, but the lack of things like the great presentation that immersed me in 2K5 keep me from playing it much against the CPU.