What is the problem with madden player movement

[maddenps2]

By now madden player movement should look more realistic. I remember anticipating the possibilites of nextgen football and the possiblities of more realistic player movement, graphics and advanced A.I.

When watching all the replays and highlights uploaded to the forms via easports hosting, almost immediately you can identify it isn't a real nfl game. I remember at times watching NFL2k5 being immpressed at how close the movement in that game was. Sure it had it quirks but I still impresses me to this day.


In madden the problem is the players movement is too clean and too similar. In real life players have subtle or great differences in there movements. They also stumble, trip, struggle, lean, stride differently, run/pursue at different hights, have different manerisms and emotions.

There isn't enough collision detection animations, engagements, struggles, battles etc. Animation transition animations are lacking as well as animations protray the collision, of players arms, legs, bodys etc. Line engagment and defensive back receiver animation is too clean and lacking. The speed, acceleration, tackling style, pursuit angles also are too cloned and lack any noticable differences. Basically to make madden more realistic there has to be an effort to make madden less clean, cloned and perfect looking.

[Boucher]

Re: What is the problem with madden player movement

agree

[Cdenz]

Re: What is the problem with madden player movement

I doubt it will ever happen....what we see is what we will get.

[RGiles36]

Re: What is the problem with madden player movement

When watching all the replays and highlights uploaded to the forms via easports hosting, almost immediately you can identify it isn't a real nfl game. I remember at times watching NFL2k5 being immpressed at how close the movement in that game was. Sure it had it quirks but I still impresses me to this day.

I agree completely. I recently said the same thing when watching some EA Sportsworld footage of Madden 09. It just looks completely robotic and I can't put a finger on what the issue is. Everything is just so stiff and up right once the ball is snapped. The quirkiness sometimes reminds me of one of those ol' school Electric football game boards .

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: What is the problem with madden player movement

The OP mentioned a lot of things, but I'll talk more specifically about the actual locomotion system / animations. First, please don't use EASW videos as a judge...remember those videos are compressed up to 4X so they look pretty terrible. The longer the play goes on, the worse they get. You can see what I mean here:

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</object>

(Minimal compression) ^^^^^


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<embed src="http://ll-999.ea.com/sonet-easw/2.3.6.00/flash/sw/videos/mediaplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="height=355&width=425&file=http://videocdn.easw.easports.com/easportsworld/media2/madden09/2898241/831A0001_2_FLV_VIDEO_uSp.flv&link=http://www.easportsworld.com/en_US/video/259194&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&image= http://ll-999.ea.com/sonet-easw/2.3.6.00/images/sw/videos/preview.jpg&skin=http://ll-999.ea.com/sonet-easw/2.3.6.00/flash/sw/videos/skin.swf" width="425" height="355">


</object>(Fully compressed) ^^^^^


We're trying like hell to get that fixed for '10...it makes everything look pretty gross...not representative of gameplay at all (PS3 videos compress the most too FWIW).

However I'm not going to disagree that the player movement hasn't been stellar.

Pros:
- Foot plant gets rid of sliding
- Left stick planting (when it works)
- Juke steering/branching

My current problems with it:
- Turn rate is way too high
- No one plays true 'direction change' animations enough
- Agility rating isn't important enough (i.e. doesn't scale the turn rate enough)
- Not enough variety and visual subtleties (like the OP said). Our animations were over compressed and they lost a lot of the subtle motion (like shoulder movement and stuff) that was in the animation.
- Run styles don't look urgent enough
- No prep or setup needed to make moves, especially at high speeds

[thudias]

Re: What is the problem with madden player movement

Thanks for the explanation.

[bison160]

Re: What is the problem with madden player movement

- Not enough variety and visual subtleties (like the OP said). Our animations were over compressed and they lost a lot of the subtle motion (like shoulder movement and stuff) that was in the animation.

I noticed you said "were" over compressed. Does that mean that you have that issue fixed, and the animations are now looking more fluid and realistic? Any examples you could provide?

Oh yah, i dont see any videos in your post Ian.

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: What is the problem with madden player movement

I noticed you said "were" over compressed. Does that mean that you have that issue fixed, and the animations are now looking more fluid and realistic? Any examples you could provide?

Oh yah, i dont see any videos in your post Ian.

Can't answer any of those types of details just yet.

Here's direct links to the videos if the embedded ones aren't working (though today the EA servers were down for me so they might not work as well):

Uncompressed: http://www.easportsworld.com/en_US/video/155744

Compressed: http://www.easportsworld.com/en_US/video/259194

[Guillotine 1]

Re: What is the problem with madden player movement

Is natural motion being used in 2010?

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: What is the problem with madden player movement

Is natural motion being used in 2010?

Negative ghost rider.

[Boregard]

Re: What is the problem with madden player movement

Even in regular gameplay the animations are pretty bad. Take the dumb WR, in the video Ian posted, where he blindly runs in a circle before heading to block someone. The compression has nothing to do with the fact that the players look like they have a bad case of the "runs" and are trying to hold it as they run to the port-a-john.

The running animations are horrible, the left stick twitch crap really takes away from the flow of the game (bring back the cut moves!!!) Look at a replay of a player running and you very quickly notice that the players' feet are never out in front of them. It looks like a moon walk animation where the players are moving in the wrongt direction.

EA should put the PS2 version and the next gen version on side by side TVs and figure out how to get back to the PS2's flow, because the next-gen games suck because of the jittery way players move. And why the heck can they finally get the sideline catch animations looking great on PS2, but the next gen versions the guys are 3 yards from the sideline when they attempt it???


I have really been dissappointed with the crappy animations/flow of the next gen football titles, and the stupid way the hot routes (especially on defense were changed). The PS2 version is still more fun and emersive and that is sad at this point. I know this must seem like a negative rant, but I just want the game to be better - to meet or exceed the standards set by the PS2 version and they have not done that yet!!!

[stoncold32]

Re: What is the problem with madden player movement

The compression issue has nothing to do with the animations that occur in game. I think what the OP is getting at is the physics of the game.

[Keith121212]

Re: What is the problem with madden player movement

Yea Ian seems way off here. The compression is not the problem. Without compression the animations are still VERY sub-par compared to every top sports game unfortunately.

[Exonerated]

Re: What is the problem with madden player movement

Players warp way too often. On passing plays, sometimes defenders and sometimes receivers warp about 5 yards towards the ball. It looks completely unrealistisc.

Please get rid of this. I';d rather my player just miss the ball completely then warp 5 yards to catch a ball.

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: What is the problem with madden player movement

Yea Ian seems way off here. The compression is not the problem. Without compression the animations are still VERY sub-par compared to every top sports game unfortunately.

Read my first post and you'll see I was just responding directly to the player movement issue and how people were complaining about the quality by watching EASW vids.

The OP mentioned a lot of things, but I'll talk more specifically about the actual locomotion system / animations.

I didn't respond to any of the other stuff (I don't disagree with any of it...just wanted to narrow the focus and give explanation on issues they were seeing with locomotion).