The only way to make a better football game...

[claystone]

The only way to get a better football game that we are looking for is to make it ourselves, pure and simple. There are a lot of us who play HC that are adults and have money. I would love to work with programmers and developers to create the football game we are looking for.

If we keep sitting around waiting for EA to come through we might as well develop one ourselves. It might be a lot faster.

[sixtydashone]

Re: The only way to make a better football game...

Yeah, unfortunately you'd have to use fictional teams, player names, stadiums, etc. due to EA's exclusive NFL rights.

[samboz19]

Re: The only way to make a better football game...

Yeah, unfortunately you'd have to use fictional teams, player names, stadiums, etc. due to EA's exclusive NFL rights.

Well...if we could get HC09 for the PC...everyone who is a fan and knows to do mod work and programming could basically create different versions of the game. My favorite example...Jagged Alliance 2. There is a even a website dedicated to that game and all of its iterations that are modded and so forth.

Cheers!

[DougSupreme]

Re: The only way to make a better football game...

Yeah, unfortunately you'd have to use fictional teams, player names, stadiums, etc. due to EA's exclusive NFL rights.

actually, it would be illegal to sell a game made using copyrighted materials. if a group of people pooled their money to have a game created for their own use, I don't believe it's illegal.

I can take a sweatshirt and put anything on it I want, regardless of any copyrights or trademarks, and I am well within my rights. If I try to sell that sweatshirt, I am in violation.


Sooooo, if we could pool enough resources and hire someone to make the game for us, as long as we didn't try to sell it we should be okay.


should

[sixtydashone]

Re: The only way to make a better football game...

You're probably right.

Just make sure you set some money aside for a lawyer as well.

[claystone]

Re: The only way to make a better football game...

I live in NYC.

Is there any programmers and game developers out here that is interested in creating a football game? I really want to make one, just don't know how.

[BoKnowsBest]

Re: The only way to make a better football game...

actually, it would be illegal to sell a game made using copyrighted materials. if a group of people pooled their money to have a game created for their own use, I don't believe it's illegal.

I can take a sweatshirt and put anything on it I want, regardless of any copyrights or trademarks, and I am well within my rights. If I try to sell that sweatshirt, I am in violation.


Sooooo, if we could pool enough resources and hire someone to make the game for us, as long as we didn't try to sell it we should be okay.


should

if you edit a pc game and release it for free its called a mod, and those are perfectly legal.

for any1 with the 360 version of HC09, what happens when you put the disk in your PC? can you at least open up the files in the disk? bc it could be possible to download a 360 emulator, and edit the files(better make backups) to mod the game.

or for anyone w/ the ps3 version and a bluray in their pc, can you try it?

[swatter555]

Re: The only way to make a better football game...

I live in NYC.

Is there any programmers and game developers out here that is interested in creating a football game? I really want to make one, just don't know how.

I share your desire to have a realistic football game. Lord knows that shouldn't be too much to ask.

The problem is that creating a game better the HC09 would be an immense project, especially starting from scratch. Creating a text based football game that was realistic and with a decent career mode would take six months of full time programming work for one person. The guy who created Front Office Football was such a person, and if you look on his web site he tells the story of how that game came to be.

If you want a graphical 3D football game, look at Maximum Football (Matrix Games) created by a guy named David Winter, I believe. The graphics probably date back to 2001 and there is no career mode. He has been working on the game for years, full time.

So, basically what you ask is not practically possible. No one is going to work full time for years on a project that will be given freely to others. Then there is the license issue. In order to use any NFL logos or players/teams in a game, you need an NFL license. Licenses are only issued to corporations that are well known and trusted not to make the NFL look bad in a poor product. Im sure it also costs money, probably alot. The only way to use NFL teams/logos are third party mods.

And this leads to the modding question. EA has always discouraged modding. The only mods I have ever seen for Madden are minor graphical ones.

You have to understand that its not fans who run EA or EASports, it is people who dont play games and can only read spread sheets. Unless it is uttery obvious something will make them more money, they will not change a thing. They wont let people Mod Madden or HC because they believe it wont make them any money. Thats it, period. No other consideration matters.

My personal feeling is that EASports will never allow substantial Madden Mods because it would be too easy to make the game alot better. If it takes only a couple of months to create killer mods, people are going to wonder what the hell EA does all year.

If mediocrity makes money, mediocrity is what we are going to see. That is Madden in a nutshell.

[claystone]

Re: The only way to make a better football game...

swatter555:

I agree with you, as to no one would give their time for free.

I've been wanting to do this for years. I develop buildings here in NY, but i like to expand out into video games. I have a great idea for a football game and the money to back it. I just need a good team. This idea would allow for online franchise leagues.

Edit: I would use generic players and teams, and let the people cutomize their game. I don't need the NFL to make a great football game.

[sixtydashone]

Re: The only way to make a better football game...

Also, most console games, if you read the fine print in the manual, part of the End User License Agreement is that you will not backwards-engineer the software, which is basically what you'd be doing if you tried to make a mod like this.

For example here's a section of an old Madden EULA:

Except as otherwise expressly provided under this Agreement, you shall not, and
shall not allow any third party to: (a) decompile, disassemble, or otherwise reverse engineer or
attempt to reconstruct or discover any source code or underlying algorithms of the Software by
any means whatsoever, to the maximum extent such restriction is allowable under applicable law,
(b) alter, modify, enhance, or create a derivative work or improvement of any part of the Software,
(c) remove, alter, or obscure any product identification, copyright, or other intellectual property

And sorry, I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer. Just trying to let you know what you're getting yourself into with something like this. It's not as simple as people might think. Not to say that it can't be done, but you need to be fully aware of what you're getting yourself into well ahead of time, which is why I suggest having legal advice on hand, particularly somebody who is well versed in intellectual property law.

[swatter555]

Re: The only way to make a better football game...

swatter555:

I agree with you, as to no one would give their time for free.

I've been wanting to do this for years. I develop buildings here in NY, but i like to expand out into video games. I have a great idea for a football game and the money to back it. I just need a good team. This idea would allow for online franchise leagues.

Edit: I would use generic players and teams, and let the people cutomize their game. I don't need the NFL to make a great football game.

I do know a few things about the game business, lets see if I can impart a little more advice. You say you have money, ok. Are you independently wealthy? That is what it is going to take. Even if you are frugal, to make a game better than HC, you will need a least a million dollars. And that million dollars would be a high risk investment.

The HC09 team used a well developed engine dedicated to football. I promise you it still took hundreds or thousands of man hours to make HC09.

I don't want to pee on your parade either, but unless you are wealthy you need to lower your sights.

[claystone]

Re: The only way to make a better football game...

I do know a few things about the game business, lets see if I can impart a little more advice. You say you have money, ok. Are you independently wealthy? That is what it is going to take. Even if you are frugal, to make a game better than HC, you will need a least a million dollars. And that million dollars would be a high risk investment.

The HC09 team used a well developed engine dedicated to football. I promise you it still took hundreds or thousands of man hours to make HC09.

I don't want to pee on your parade either, but unless you are wealthy you need to lower your sights.

I figured around $500k or so to put this together. I'm actually really serious about this. I like a partner who is in this business. We can have an "Operating Agreement" created that lays out our business plan along with the do's and don'ts. But the team of players that can create this idea i have is important to know if it can be done and at what budget.

Edit: The game i want to create, would be for PC.

[claystone]

Re: The only way to make a better football game...

Also, most console games, if you read the fine print in the manual, part of the End User License Agreement is that you will not backwards-engineer the software, which is basically what you'd be doing if you tried to make a mod like this.

For example here's a section of an old Madden EULA:



And sorry, I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer. Just trying to let you know what you're getting yourself into with something like this. It's not as simple as people might think. Not to say that it can't be done, but you need to be fully aware of what you're getting yourself into well ahead of time, which is why I suggest having legal advice on hand, particularly somebody who is well versed in intellectual property law.

You're not being a downer.

I like to make a game from scratch but to be used for PC.

[BoKnowsBest]

Re: The only way to make a better football game...

I figured around $500k or so to put this together. I'm actually really serious about this. I like a partner who is in this business. We can have an "Operating Agreement" created that lays out our business plan along with the do's and don'ts. But the team of players that can create this idea i have is important to know if it can be done and at what budget.

Edit: The game i want to create, would be for PC.

3D game engine or text? if its text i might be able to help a bit with the formulas(how player ratings effect the gameplay)

and just recreate the NFL and slightly change the names

for example, call the oakland raiders the oakland riders(horse as logo. nmamdi asomugha can me mandi asogha. just small changes like that which will still make the players recognizable for fans of the team.

[claystone]

Re: The only way to make a better football game...

3D game engine or text? if its text i might be able to help a bit with the formulas(how player ratings effect the gameplay)

and just recreate the NFL and slightly change the names

for example, call the oakland raiders the oakland riders(horse as logo. nmamdi asomugha can me mandi asogha. just small changes like that which will still make the players recognizable for fans of the team.

It would be 3D. Text is already available through FOF for online play.