Rumor - 15 NHL teams could go under in next 2 years

[Money99]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/090227

I heard in Phoenix, the craziest came from a connected executive who predicted that fifteen NHL teams would go under within the next two years (and was dead serious)

Intersting article about the woes of the NBA.
Even more interesting was the quote I posted.

You always hear rumors about teams struggling in the NHL but the you hear Bettman talk about how they've never been stronger.
The truth usually lies somewhere in-between.

I have a feeling that if the economy doesn't rebound, or only levels out where it is now, we could see as many as 4-6 teams contract in the next 3 to 4 seasons.

Owners would be loathe to do that, but I think a lot of them would rather take the hit on the value of their franchise instead of paying out $10-20M a year helping out franchises that can't be saved.

[CoRruPt-]

Re: Rumor - 15 NHL teams could go under in next 2 years

Maybe not 15, but I can see maybe up to 5 folding. Phoenix is definitely on top of the list with financial troubles and a lacking fanbase.

Other than that, what other teams? Florida? Atlanta? Nashville? I mean I don't see where the other 11 teams come from that are in imminent danger. I call BS.

[Money99]

Re: Rumor - 15 NHL teams could go under in next 2 years

Maybe not 15, but I can see maybe up to 5 folding. Phoenix is definitely on top of the list with financial troubles and a lacking fanbase.

Other than that, what other teams? Florida? Atlanta? Nashville? I mean I don't see where the other 11 teams come from that are in imminent danger. I call BS.

Yeah, me neither.

What I found astonishing is how Simmons points out that Memphis only grosses $300,000 a game! And that more than one team is in the same ballpark.

[Vince]

Re: Rumor - 15 NHL teams could go under in next 2 years

I doubt any of these teams really fold. Except maybe PHX.

Florida has a good fan base, but they just haven't won in a while. Even the best fans in other sports will stop showing up when the product on the field or ice or court is crap.

No different in Hockey which is why I don't like when people say, well ATL has a bad fan base. Well, win for goodness sakes!

[ianlast]

Re: Rumor - 15 NHL teams could go under in next 2 years

15 teams, my ***. The last thing the NHL and NHLPA wants to do is contract, they'll sooner slash payrolls by 50% than contract teams. Contraction would be an absolute death sentence for the NHL.

If anything, this is going to make moving teams to Canadian cities a more attractive option.

[GrandMaster B]

Re: Rumor - 15 NHL teams could go under in next 2 years

Maybe not 15, but I can see maybe up to 5 folding. Phoenix is definitely on top of the list with financial troubles and a lacking fanbase.

Other than that, what other teams? Florida? Atlanta? Nashville? I mean I don't see where the other 11 teams come from that are in imminent danger. I call BS.

We don't have a lacking fan base. We are in financial trouble because of the poorly negotiated lease we signed. We have a buyer lined up to take over the team by the end of the month. We aren't going anywhere. Get facts.

[GrandMaster B]

Re: Rumor - 15 NHL teams could go under in next 2 years

Your link is about the NBA not the NHL. ???

[bullpen]

Re: Rumor - 15 NHL teams could go under in next 2 years

I hope it does happen.

Get rid of teams like the Islanders, Devils, Trashers, Predators, Blue Jackets, Coyotes, Panthers,Hurricanes and the Lightnings. That would be 225 less players (4th line players and 7th defenseman).

Teams would face each other more often...

But that's not what Bettman is gonna do...he's gonna try to put teams in Europe.....oh yeah, that'll work .....

[Speedy]

Re: Rumor - 15 NHL teams could go under in next 2 years

I doubt any of these teams really fold. Except maybe PHX.

Florida has a good fan base, but they just haven't won in a while. Even the best fans in other sports will stop showing up when the product on the field or ice or court is crap.

No different in Hockey which is why I don't like when people say, well ATL has a bad fan base. Well, win for goodness sakes!

It's not necessarily about the fan base but about Gary Bettman's poor use of marketing. The only time I can really see a hockey game is on FoxSports when my Hurricanes are playing - otherwise I don't see it anywhere. The NHL has a plethra of stars to show-off and really give a lasting appeal but the rest of the world has no clue...Obviously Kobe is a phenominal player but Ovechkin is very similar when their skill set is compared to the rest of the league's players. It's why the NBA grew in the 90s (MJ), why the NFL grew in the 80s (Montana, Rice), why B-Ball grew - and brought back the people - in the late 90s after the strike (McGwire/Sosa)

[Money99]

Re: Rumor - 15 NHL teams could go under in next 2 years

Your link is about the NBA not the NHL. ???

I guess you missed the part in my initial thread where I stated:

Interesting article about the woes of the NBA.

Also, there's a huge quote about the NHL and 15 teams being in trouble so it's relevant here.

[metallicatz]

Re: Rumor - 15 NHL teams could go under in next 2 years

You don't get rid of teams that are Cup winners in the modern era.

I don't want to advocate any team in particular leaving town because there are fans, even in the non-traditional hockey markets, that love them. However, if there is a relocation or two i'd like to see Canada get back at least one team. It's not right that they have so few teams in the world's premier hockey league that uses a championship Cup that bears the name of a Canadian Governor General who donated it for the purpose of being awarded to the best Canadian team in the first place. I'd also LOVE to see the Whalers return somewhere up in the northeast.

[Donovan]

Re: Rumor - 15 NHL teams could go under in next 2 years

You don't get rid of teams that are Cup winners in the modern era.

So you mean Tampa Bay, Carolina or Anaheim?

The problem is just because a team like that won the cup doesn't mean they shouldn't be moved due to lack of support, severe operating losses etc. None of those three teams or other southern clubs like Phoenix or Nashville have been in the black for over 5 years. Even the seasons they won the cup they were losing money. Phoenix has apparently lost over 200 million to date, they're just bleeding money. Sports is a business now a days and no business can operate at a loss.

15 teams collapsing in 2 years is just totally ridiculous though. I could see 1-2 clubs failing in 2 years, or 5-6 failing in 5 years. But no chance in hell will more than that go under.

[metallicatz]

Re: Rumor - 15 NHL teams could go under in next 2 years

I think moving those teams should be an absolute last resort. In order to make hockey viable in those markets the NHL needs to do a better job of promoting not only youth hockey, but also support the local rinks that have teams and instructional programs. Create fans for the now by getting kids involved with hockey, and their cash-bearing parents come along for the ride and become "hockey parents". By placing their brand in local rinks these teams can brand incoming youth and their families. So you create new fans now but also for the future with these kids naturally progressing through their youth hockey careers and also by increasing the numbers of kids (and their families) getting involved with hockey. You're not going to turn 42 year old Joe Schmoe and his wife into hockey fans if the sport wasn't a part of their culture growing up......but if you can get their KIDS involved then you create potential ticket buyers and merchandise consumers right now and for the future.

Of course, saying that is easy. It would be another thing to make it happen. But Los Angeles isn't any less of a non-traditional hockey market than Raleigh or Tampa. When I was a kid in Southern California during the mid 80's youth hockey was pretty much unheard of. You either played baseball, Pop Warner football, or soccor. There were no rinks anywhere close to my home promoting hockey. Now there are 3 quality rinks within a 45 minute radius of where I grew up and they all have quality youth progams (Thank you Mr. Gretzky). Having a team in Anaheim was part of the league's reckless expansion and in hindsight was a mistake because the area simply will not support 2 hockey teams. It couldn't even support two NFL teams. But the Kings have a strong base and they do alot of work with area youth promoting the sport. It could work. Or it could fail. But you have to try. Pulling out a team that does have loyal fans after they'd tasted Cup victory should not be done unless everything's been tried to grow the sport in those areas.........which was the whole point in the first place.

[Donovan]

Re: Rumor - 15 NHL teams could go under in next 2 years

I agree that its great for any sports league to try and build their sport and tap into big markets that may not be traditional markets, but the NHL is unlike the NFL or NBA or MLB in that they are a gate driven league, the teams make next to nothing off of TV rights deals. If you're not filling your arena you're not making money, and if they can't fill their arena with $15 tickets that include free food and parking as they offer in Florida, Tampa etc, they wont fill them. Its nice to want to build the sport but thats a long term thing and they need butts in seats NOW.

It would be one thing if they had experimented with one or two of these markets back in the expansion hay day rather than 8+ of them. San Jose is a great market with a super stable team and fan base, so is Dallas. But for every one of those their are three Floridas, Carolinas and Nashvilles.

Basically they ****ed up, and they can either continue losing money and trying to keep these teams where they are, move a few of them to new locations and hope for the best, or do nothing and have several teams collapse.

What I wonder is if Phoenix or Tampa for instance declared bankruptcy and could no longer pay bills or operate would the league let them die or finally grit their teeth and allow a billionaire to buy them for a liquidated price under the agreement that he will only bail them out if he's allowed to relocate them. The reason they have no buyers for these teams lately is that no businessman wants to lose money every year on his new toy, and the league isnt allowing Canadian billionaires to buy teams because many of them want to move the teams to Canada, which the league seems against.

[Vince]

Re: Rumor - 15 NHL teams could go under in next 2 years

I dont get how the Bolts are losing money... Tampa bay has been top 10 in attendence since the cup year...