Will Training be Revised?
 

I don't know if this happened to anyone else, but letting people raise speed in franchise really runed it for me after 3 or 4 season. It's stupid having to counter 99 speed TEs with 99 speed LBers, and everyone has 2-3 99 speed Wrs.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

yeah i was always against being able to train speed..hopefully it is changed.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

Some Of My Tweaks:

No Speed Training.
Bench Press = Tackling, Hit Power, Power Move, Stiff Arm, Trucking, Run + Pass Blocking and Strength
Kicking Power Should Not Be Increased By Bench Press
Kicking Accuracy Should Not Be Increased 40 Yard Dash
Throwing Power Can Not Be Increased

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

We're probably just going to get rid of the mini-game based training for progression and for injury rehab.

Never made much sense IMO.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

You know what that works even better.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

Offseason drills are a good way to supplement natural performance based progression. But i think they should be handled differently. I would love for progression to somehow be tied into the coaching staff and their strengths and weaknesses. Ditch the minigames, but maybe in it's place add some sort of offseason training program where players improve a little bit depending on the head coach/ defensive & offensive coordinators' ratings.

Also, I'm with the OP as far as speed being way too easy to progress. Post patch, I couldn't have a franchise without the 4th or 5th year becoming broken because too many incoming players had speed increases of 4 or 5 per season. Players don't get faster after coming into the league. They get better at technique and skills, they might add some muscle mass and strength, but for the most part they don't increase their speed much. Please fix that, because especially deep in franchise, it was very annoying to see 25+ receivers with 99 speed. I'm not exaggerating either, they would take over the league.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

I <3 you.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

I actually dont agree with this idea..unless you are replacing them with new training modes I dont feel this is a step in the right direction for an improved franchise mode..I dont see how training individual players to help them improve never made sense.

As for improving speed..I think it should take longer to achieve but the option shouldnt be removed. For those who want to build a fast team that will be a major lost. Just giving my two cents before anybody gets the idea that nobody wants live training camps/modes.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

Pre-season stuff is cool, but the constant weekly training is hardly realisitic.

As much as we I hate to make 2K comparison, I did love that game, and that's how it should be done. It's a win/lose situation. Players would tire more quickly, risk injury, and the boosts were temporary, with marginal increases over the length of the season.

You build teams through the draft, that's how you get fast, that's realism.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

I didn't say anything other than we'll remove those mini-games to train and rehab your players.

The parts that don't make sense IMO are when you have your players out running 40 yard dashes to get faster. Or worse, when you have your QB with a separated shoulder and the way to get him better is to have him do reps of 225.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

^^^ LOL. That's nothing... I seem to recall once having a player who had a broken neck or some kind of spinal injury get up and walk off the field, lol. It would've been at least a little more believable if they had Benny Hinn run out and touch him real quick or something...

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

lol, and when you improve your kickers leg strength by bench pressing :34:

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

True that.

I don't think improving speed should be apart of training, it should be like in the legacy gen Madden where it happens based on performance, and not very often even then.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

+1

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

THANK YOU!!! I have been waiting for this one for a long minute.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

THANK YOU:woot:

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

Players can get faster imo, and imo I'd just make it so no one player can gain more than 1-5 points in their career.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

The only time I could see someone improve his speed (and not by much) is when you sometimes see players who try and lose weight (whether muscle or fat) either because they were out of shape or because they're changing positions (like from a small LB transitioning to a safety). I don't think we're going to see anything like weight fluctuations anytime soon, so I think the choice to remove mini-games is a good one (especially the week-to-week system, which was tiring and I felt forced to do them to improve my team).

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

noooo

it gives us a way of coaching our players, i play man 2 man in my franchise, i bring up there shutdown corner....now i haaave to find the best man 2 man corner and hooope he progresses in that category? i disagree, speed obviously is dumb, but not acc, str, or any technic category, please

maybe position coaches that effect the way players progress, could be a cool way of making coaches important, which they r xtremely, look at san deigo the last 4 yrs

basic position coaches, ol, wr, hb, qb, dl, lb, db

like 3 diff types of coaches, physical for str, acc, jmp. one mental awr, ply rec, and one technical for that position, just an idea

ps, typin on ps3, takes so much time to b articulate...but u get the idea

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

YES thats exactly what I was thinking! the 40 yards dash is a good measure of your speed but does not make you faster

I think the the practices during the week should give small boosts too the players overall abilities based on how they perform... I play Superstar Mode & I skip every practice during the week because I do not think they are worth the time & during the games I do not give the little boosts to my player... it's bad enough that players can reach 99 speed in a few seasons, but its worse that my 85 speed linebacker can get 2 INTs and be 99 speed the rest of the game

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

Finally,the progression should be just like the online update.

Ex. rating 79 speed wideout averaging 18.7 ypc his speed should be raised.

A rating 99 DT on the last ranked run defense should be dropped. etc.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

dang ian..you only reply when I disagree with you lol but I get what your saying..I just dont want everything to become "press a button and your player just worked out" ..you know?

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

Gotta keep the training camps, just make the point system more like last generation, where you get one camp in the preseason, get acouple points to add to basic things, tackling, hitting, coverage, passrush, catching, carrying(HUUUGE), throw acc,accel, maybe agi, str, all depending on position and drill.


Unless there is a serious upgrade to the progression system and a way to effect how our players progress, coaches can coach up players on their weaknesses... certain coverage skills, tackling, ball carrying, hit power, ball skills, passrush.

The current system is a way of effecting the progression to reflect your system.

Tell me most of you don't look forward to the off season in order to draft/trade for players, get a FA or two, and then do some minicamps(mostly in previous years, but you get the 4 extra camps for 3 xtra players in preseason) in order to get your youngest players better either in their weaknesses, or what you need to be a strength, i know i do. Getting my youngest players better with those camps are like the #1 thing in madden, because i can take a young WR, CB, RB or QB, and take him from joe shmoe to a superstar over the cource of his career. I

it will be soo hard to do that with defensive players esspecially without some minicamps.

if no camps then please focus alot of time and effort on a good progression system

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

Its not like it's easy right now to make some regular guy amazing tho

i know guys like Asomugha, and Bailey are hard to come by, but even now in a franchise i am actively doing, i traded for Anthony Cromartie, a big, physical, very physically gifted player, his coverage skills are...okay, all mid 80s. It is literally going to take me years, and seriously like 40 successful 7 point all madden drills vs my number one receiver in order to get him to the same page as those guys(99 m2m, 99 bump) and that doesn't even count getting his awareness and play recoginition up.

And i have to do it through the camps because he won't progress, he's even my number 2 corner. I focus on my D, so it's a beast secondary this year esspecially. Asomugha is my number 1, i've got 2 beast safeties(horton, and a draft pic) and Anthony Cromartie who is a 92 overall is my number 2 corner going against and usually beasting on mid 80 receivers, i give him the most help to because..i don't have to help asomugha at all.
I play most of the games...he's a beast, i rock the computer even with special sliders to make it more realistic, but he won't progress, 1 time he gained a point, 1 to all his coverage skills and like 2 to awarenss...but 1? my pass D is always top 10, usually top 3, and thats without getting a damn sack almost ever.

you got to have something, old camp system was probably best, 9 camps, 9 ppl, 1 time, acouple categories. But current system doesn't suuuck..it's just not perfect. But what is? don't just throw it out

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

This is a good thing.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

I agree 100% ... hated wasting my gaming time on those events, especially bench press/40 yd dash! If I have to do training I'd much rather have it focus on more of a in-game style of training.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

"You can't teach speed."

Acceleration, however, you can teach with proper footwork and such.

I think there needs to be a "wrok ethic" type or ratting that will alter how slowely a player degrades with age and maybe how much faster he improves when younger. Jery Rice, Marshal Faulk, Emmit Smith are good examples of past players who work hard phisically. Peyton Manning and Joseph Adai are great examples of player who alo work really hard on film and game plan. Manning talked about Adai's rookie year where he would ask so many questions and get invovled in the scheem and how this GREATLY improved his performance. I'm a Pats fan and I hate the Colts, but i respect the hell out of them and really like to see solid competition.

I don't know how you would be able to properly rate some ones work ethic though. Owens does work very hard. Steve Young talks about how he would work as hard as Jerry Rice. The difference with TO is he doesn't have the composure or the class of Jerry Rice. When the chips are down who would you want to throw to? Regardless he shouldn't have poor work ethic.

I thikn very few players should have a high work ethic, but most of them should all already be stars because of it. i think that having a medium work ethic range should just keep you from down grading and not improving SUPER fast like in madden 06-8 with the 3x season progressions. [I loved the feature, but average stats and a winning record made my team super duper when it shouldn't].

In regards to the draft players should mostly have a standard work ethic, however some may be projected low round draft choices but have a high ethic and top ends should some times have low ethic. This was top picks can become busts because of low ethic and low end "steals" like Brady and Owens and *the guy from the Saints* and Josh Morgan of the 49ers and such can all improve faster as rookies becasue of this, as long as they are paired with solid stats.

I have no idea if this would be posible, but I would love it.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

Good points! I like the idea of pre-season camps to enhance some younger players attributes, but I would not miss the weekly training at all. I also prefer teh previous style where based on your training performance you are allotted a certain number of points and you get to choose which attribute you want to increase.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

That would be great if they got rid of the training sessions, players dont train to get faster during the season and most players speed doesnt change from college to the pros. (ex. Randy Moss was outrunning defenses in college as he does in the pros, Devin Hester just as explosive in returns as he was a the U.)

What I would like to see is players who after 3 seasons only get better with on field performance. Which means if you want a player to be better at play recognition and awareness he has to be on the field you can't continue to get better at those areas if you don't get playing time.

For rookies their progression should be based off of a mix between onfield performance, position coach ratings and veteran leadership at their position.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

No more Mini-games = Good Thing :wink:

I do like the gains linked with coaches idea; but not completely.

Players can gain speed but it is usually combined with weight loss and in larger players if it is anything significant.

• It isn't typical a WR or DB is going to gain much speed. But a LB, DL, OL, or RB can by loosing wight but there will typically be losses some place else like strength. Look at the end of Warren Sapp's career, he lost a lot of wieght and gained some speed and it really helped helped him out.

There definately shoud be a cap on base ratings (strength, speed, agility, etc.) gains.

• You aren't goint to see and WR with 99 strength out there. Like can you see Devin Hester benching more then an OL? I don't think so. Or the reverse no LB is going to out run Hester, no matter how much they train it just is not going to happen.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

AWR and Play recognition can improve without playing. I do not know how many QBs out there would have been ruined if they didn't improve off field before being put into the game. Matt Hassleback comes to mind as an example.

Some player MUST mature off field in order to get good especially in AWR (this includes play book knowledge) and play recognition (this is done by reivewing game tapes) happens all the time. It isn't like they aren't practicing with other NFL players on their time live in practice. That is crucial for young players to develop and some need more time then other to develop before the are put in game.

But I am not opposed to have a limit as to how high it can get off field maybe 75-80 or something like that. But if a player starts at 45 it would be hard to improve in a game situation without your teams really paying for it.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

I agree with Ian on this. Don't get me wrong, the drills can be entertaining at times. But during Franchise Mode they're far too tedious, and some of them are damn near impossible/pointless. They're also time consuming and annoying because you have to do it before every game you play.

My proposal is a legacy-gen style Training Camp before the pre-season (allow rookies to be used in Training Camp). And progression at least twice during the regular season, and maybe twice during the postseason.

Re: Will Training be Revised?
 

Ian I absolutely agree that the mini games need to go. I have always been baffled at the idea of mini game based progression since real life progression doesnt work on a pass/fail basis. The best example for this imo is the nba 2k series where if you dont meet some arbitrary standard of success in a mini game, you simply dont get any better. If the goal is to score 10 touchdowns but I only score 9, why am i being rewarded as though I scored none. Madden's mini games imo suffered from a disasterous lack of football focus. A DB is not measured by how well he can guard the #1 WR in single coverage with no help and the whole field at the WR's disposal. That is setting up the DB for absolute failure. DBs cant guard elite recievers with help, let alone 1 on 1, and especially not with the whole field and therefore the whole route tree at their disposal.

Why should my QB not get any better when I completed 90% of my passes in the QB drill but those passes werent for touchdowns? And I shouldnt even have to mention that the playcalling for the QB drill was at best, terrible. I can vividly remember getting to the 2-yard line and getting go routes across the board for 5 plays straight. Then after I actually scored and needed to score again quickly, it was all quick slants.

My vote is to do away with mini game based progression entirely due to the fact that in the long run, all mini games become tedious.

Mini games should be an entertaining side activity, or an educational tutorial activity. If a mini game does neither of those activities then it is wasting our time. I would much rather have progression based on performance and the quality of my coaching staff. You should also be able to tell your staff to work with a player to train him into becomming a specific type of player to fit your system. An example is if you want a guy to be a power back then inform the coaching staff and they can tailor his game to becomming that (assuming he is meant to be that. I would also like the natural talents of the player to come into effect so if you try to make Reggie Bush into Brandon Jacobs then you should fail and the player should be terrible in your system. His size and skills just dont translate to that)

Didnt mean for the post to get this long but I used to spend so much time thinking about training and progression as a result of so many failed franchises and associations due to frustrating mini games.