Quick update on press/release issue

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  • Ian_Cummings
    MVP
    • May 2008
    • 1919
    #1

    Quick update on press/release issue

    A friendly Raider fan (http://twitter.com/eastbayraidr/status/2061051209) had his watchful eyes on the E3 footage and noticed a few plays where Asamougha (94 press rating) was getting burned by Ted Ginn (72 release rating). I sent this on to our gameplay guys and they found a pretty decent bug with the tuning of the press/release decision (which has now been fixed). Thought you guys would like to see the detail on what was actually going wrong - so here's the email he just sent me:



    I looked at this in the debugger and saw what is causing this.

    The defender first decides what direction he wants to push the receiver. In the case of a streak he wants to push the receiver inside since that's where his help is. The calculation of who wins looks like this:

    Random Range = Defender Press rating (0 to 1) + Neutral buffer (1.0) + Receiver Release Rating (0 to 1)

    Random number in range is picked:

    Rand < Defender Press = defender win
    Rand < Defender Press + Neutral Buffer = neutral
    Rand > Defender Press + Neutral Buffer = Receiver win

    The problem arises from the fact that if the receiver is on the opposite side of where the defender wants to push him, he gets a bonus that multiplies his release rating by up to 2 times. In the case of Ginn vs. Asamougha the final chances were a 1.0 for Asamougha and a 1.16 for Ginn because of the positional bonus.

    Asamougha 1.0/3.16 ( 31% chance of win )
    Neutral 1.0/3.16 chance of win (31% chance of neutral)
    Ginn 1.16/3.16 chance of win (Ginn 36% chance of win)

    I made the following changes:
    1. Remove the positional bonus, users aren’t going to understand why a crappy guy consistently beats a good guy over a 1 and a half foot difference in x-position.
    2. Increase the size of the neutral buffer to 2.0, since our wins and losses are super dramatic. A "neutral" in essence can count as a win for a defender since he stays right with him.

    The end result is this:

    Asamougha 1.0/3.67 ( 27% chance of win )
    Neutral 2.0/3.67 chance of win (.54 chance of neutral)
    Ginn .67/3.67 chance of win (Ginn 18% chance of win)

    This now means that in the case of Asamougha vs. Ginn, Asamougha will stay right with Ginn step for step 82% of the time, with 1/4 of those times having him stopping Ginn right in his tracks with a good press. This felt like a really good balance but sliders will also effect this if the folks on the forums wanted to see them even more dominant. Pressing a guy is obviously a risky proposition in the NFL so you don't want someone to be able to hold a guy at the line every single time.

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    Tags: None
    • dougdeuce
      Pro
      • Apr 2009
      • 802
      #2
      Re: Quick update on press/release issue

      Thanks for the update, good to see the final tweaks are being thrown in.

        Comment

        • jp7588
          Pro
          • Aug 2003
          • 558
          #3
          Re: Quick update on press/release issue

          That sounds good to me! I didn't notice that in the vids. Nice work.

            Comment

            • Canadeion
              Banned
              • Sep 2008
              • 355
              #4
              Re: Quick update on press/release issue

              Hot nickels!

              Good find.

              Can't wait to see it in action!

                Comment

                • StonesRunIt
                  Banned
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 646
                  #5
                  Re: Quick update on press/release issue

                  good info

                    Comment

                    • FadeEmAll
                      Banned
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 880
                      #6
                      Re: Quick update on press/release issue

                      see this is the type of isht I can appreciate!!!

                        Comment

                        • jlukes
                          Rookie
                          • Mar 2009
                          • 154
                          #7
                          Re: Quick update on press/release issue

                          Very cool Ian, I find the guts of Madden extremely interesting. Thanks for dumbing it down for us

                          Go Giants!

                            Comment

                            • Netherscourge
                              MVP
                              • Jul 2008
                              • 1163
                              #8
                              Re: Quick update on press/release issue

                              I don't understand why he'd get a bonus on the other side in the first place...
                              Last edited by Netherscourge; 06-08-2009, 02:03 PM.

                                Comment

                                • FadeEmAll
                                  Banned
                                  • Dec 2008
                                  • 880
                                  #9
                                  Re: Quick update on press/release issue

                                  LOL scourge did you have to repost the whole quote?

                                    Comment

                                    • KANE699
                                      EA Sports' Equipment Guru
                                      • Jul 2007
                                      • 3447
                                      #10
                                      Re: Quick update on press/release issue

                                      Any update on the sideline catches Ian
                                      Please take note that most of what I say and post is made in satire.

                                      Follow me on twitter @Equipment_Guru

                                        Comment

                                        • Phobia
                                          Hall Of Fame
                                          • Jan 2008
                                          • 11623
                                          #11
                                          Re: Quick update on press/release issue

                                          Great find, this is the kind of stuff we want to see. How many times did we have the "come back AI" debate, but it has always been told and still to this day to not exists.

                                            Comment

                                            • MikeGiani
                                              Pro
                                              • Aug 2008
                                              • 680
                                              #12
                                              Re: Quick update on press/release issue

                                              So this means we will see more of DB's bumping WR's at the line?
                                              PSN - MikeDG719

                                                Comment

                                                • jlukes
                                                  Rookie
                                                  • Mar 2009
                                                  • 154
                                                  #13
                                                  Re: Quick update on press/release issue

                                                  Originally posted by Netherscourge
                                                  I don't understand why he'd get a bonus on the other side in the first place...
                                                  Pretty sure he means that if the CB was cheating the WR to start his route to the inside, and the WR would get a multiplier if his route had him starting to the outside. If the CB anticipated correctly, he would get the multiplier.

                                                  Or so I think...

                                                    Comment

                                                    • dougdeuce
                                                      Pro
                                                      • Apr 2009
                                                      • 802
                                                      #14
                                                      Re: Quick update on press/release issue

                                                      Originally posted by Netherscourge
                                                      I don't understand why he'd get a bonus on the other side in the first place...
                                                      if you try to bump a guy to the inside and he beats you to the outside he has position on you and should have enough bonus provided from the positioning. I like this fix.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Broncos86
                                                          Orange and Blue!
                                                          • May 2009
                                                          • 5505
                                                          #15
                                                          Re: Quick update on press/release issue

                                                          I really hope this puts the neurotic folks to rest.

                                                            Comment

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