The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

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  • stylee
    Rookie
    • Apr 2009
    • 317

    #1

    The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

    http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.js...mrush&site=org

    1) Navy - Flexbone/Spread option

    2) Oregon - Shotgun zone read/option (Chip Kelly actually did some flexbone stuff at New Hampshire. Still runs veer)

    3) Nevada - pistol option, though I don't get to see them much and thus don't know the particulars. probably heavier on misdirection vs. option than some other teams on this list.

    4) Georgia Tech - Flexbone/Spread Option. Lead nation in plays of +20 and +30 yards, so the most explosive offense in the country in some respects.

    5) Tulsa - ? run zone read, from what I remember. correct me if I'm wrong

    6) Air Force - multiple option, including lots of veer from shotgun, and still some flexbone.

    7) La. Lafayette - Shotgun spread option. Lots of zone read, speed options, and the like.

    8) Ok. State - ?

    9) Army - Flexbone option. Based more in wishbone-type plays than Paul Johnson's spread style last year, but now they've got Cal-Poly's old coach, who is one of the most creative flexbone minds out there.

    10) Florida - Zone read, shotgun veer, power option, jet sweeps and jet zone reads, straight QB power plays, etc.


    Okay.

    So most of the top rushing teams in the nation last year had as their base philosophy the concept of leaving defenders unblocked and letting the QB read them.

    This gives them a numerical advantage of blockers over defenders at the point of attack. It nullifies the speed or strength of certain defenders by making them take themselves out of the play.

    EA does not feature this style, point blank. It's just not in the game.
    It gives you something that looks similar from the point of view of the QB and a running back but the offensive line plays no differently than they would on any straight ahead running play.

    Georgia Tech destroyed Miami this year while starting an offensive tackle who was around 240 pounds. If he were to play by EA's style, they would have been destroyed.


    The most common responses I've seen to all this is

    "It's a video game and you can't expect 100% realism.
    "It's close enough."
    "Who cares?"

    Now, if the passing game were as broken as this, you'd have WRs running 2 routes.
    If the running backs were as off as the blocking schemes, you'd have only 2 possible running plays.

    Someone tell me, with the prevalence of shotgun spread option teams in CFB today, why one SHOULDN'T desire to see the basic philosophy behind option football somewhat-accurately put into place.


    I've been told that leaving players unblocked causes "AI problems"

    But doesn't that just signal that there needs to be a deeper AI fix and perhaps more resources could be spent on that?


    I'm not "blaming" EA - their market research probably suggests that people don't care.

    I'm telling you that you SHOULD care.
    You'd get upset if your WR could only run a hitch or a fly, right? Correcting that would be pretty high priority to most people.
    This is just as big in terms of football realism.
  • sportzbro
    MVP
    • May 2008
    • 3892

    #2
    Re: The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

    I saw a post on NCAA Strategies saying they don't want to touch this issue apparently because having players purposely not blocking defenders would crash the AI or something..

    Since its too hard to actually fix the root of the problem.. they added animations. And yes, this kills any hope of running a spread option scheme (or option scheme in general) correctly.

    Comment

    • coachchris
      Rookie
      • May 2009
      • 277

      #3
      Re: The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

      Stylee, great post and you know I agree with you. When I read things like leaving someone unblocked completely screws up the AI then it doesn't look like we have any hope of getting this fixed anytime soon.

      For me this makes everyone of the teams you listed and many others unplayable because the staple of their offenses are broken plays. Why waste the time they did with the rebirth of the flexbone when they have to know that is not the correct offense being run.

      This is probably the same reason counter plays are just terrible. The line never blocks the right guys and you are lucky to get a counter off w/o losing 4 yards.

      Option football and counter schemes have been apart of college football since the early days yet they cannot be replicated at all in a video game in 2009.

      Comment

      • stylee
        Rookie
        • Apr 2009
        • 317

        #4
        Re: The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

        Yeah, I know you get this stuff, probably better than I do.

        Counters are another thing. Traps too...are there any accurate trap plays on next-gen?

        Comment

        • stylee
          Rookie
          • Apr 2009
          • 317

          #5
          Re: The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

          bump - anyone?

          Would you be mad if your WRs could only run 2 routes?

          If so, why don't you care if your Oline is less sophisticated than a pee-wee team's?

          Comment

          • tyler741
            Rookie
            • Sep 2008
            • 255

            #6
            Re: The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

            One of things that should be heavily worked on for NCAA 2011 is OL AI/blocking logic... I think it needs an overhaul.
            Iowa Hawkeyes | Chicago Blackhawks | Manchester City

            Comment

            • SHO
              Give us a raise, loser!
              • Mar 2005
              • 2045

              #7
              Re: The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

              Good post. I agree.

              Comment

              • mgoblue678
                MVP
                • Jul 2008
                • 3371

                #8
                Re: The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

                Agree 100%. Considering my favorite team runs a spread option offense it is kind of game killer.
                My Teams

                College: Michigan Wolverines
                NHL: Detroit Red Wings
                NBA:Detroit Pistons
                MLB: Detroit Tigers

                Comment

                • J-Unit40
                  Boom!!
                  • Sep 2005
                  • 8261

                  #9
                  Re: The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

                  Stylee, you nailed it man. I agree with you 100% and I would be in college football video game heaven if this became a reality.

                  EA, make it happen.
                  "Hard work beats talent, when talent isn't working hard.”

                  Comment

                  • JuiceIsLoose
                    Rookie
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 3

                    #10
                    Re: The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

                    I think probably the big reason why this type of blocking doesn't work is because the Dline doesn't seem to have any type of inherent logic short of "run to the ball and tackle". So if you run a trap for example the D tackle wouldn't read the pull or anything, he would just run straight upfield and blow the play up. I think it would be amazing if more D line logic got programmed in (for example better contain by ends, following pulls on power-type plays, less motion straight upfield). This would also make running misdirection a lot cooler, especially if you could "set up" players so that they bit on counters or got trapped.

                    Comment

                    • J.R. Locke
                      Banned
                      • Nov 2004
                      • 4137

                      #11
                      Re: The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

                      This is why EA football games will always be very weak on real football strategy. It is exactly why I can't get into the fun.

                      I want a game that actually uses real blocking strategies. A video game company could do this but EA's current structure of line play is so far removed from this that I doubt it will ever happen. They can't even change line splits....

                      This is why exclusive contracts and a lack of competition kills us gamers. It would be nice if there were a game geared towards football strategists/coaches/simheads. But instead we have one game trying to fulfill a wide variety of different types of football fans and video game fans.

                      Comment

                      • stylee
                        Rookie
                        • Apr 2009
                        • 317

                        #12
                        Re: The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

                        Originally posted by JuiceIsLoose
                        I think probably the big reason why this type of blocking doesn't work is because the Dline doesn't seem to have any type of inherent logic short of "run to the ball and tackle". So if you run a trap for example the D tackle wouldn't read the pull or anything, he would just run straight upfield and blow the play up. I think it would be amazing if more D line logic got programmed in (for example better contain by ends, following pulls on power-type plays, less motion straight upfield). This would also make running misdirection a lot cooler, especially if you could "set up" players so that they bit on counters or got trapped.

                        Wow. That's pretty great.

                        Comment

                        • coachchris
                          Rookie
                          • May 2009
                          • 277

                          #13
                          Re: The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

                          Originally posted by JuiceIsLoose
                          I think probably the big reason why this type of blocking doesn't work is because the Dline doesn't seem to have any type of inherent logic short of "run to the ball and tackle". So if you run a trap for example the D tackle wouldn't read the pull or anything, he would just run straight upfield and blow the play up. I think it would be amazing if more D line logic got programmed in (for example better contain by ends, following pulls on power-type plays, less motion straight upfield). This would also make running misdirection a lot cooler, especially if you could "set up" players so that they bit on counters or got trapped.
                          Agreed +1.

                          Originally posted by J.R. Locke
                          This is why EA football games will always be very weak on real football strategy. It is exactly why I can't get into the fun.

                          I want a game that actually uses real blocking strategies. A video game company could do this but EA's current structure of line play is so far removed from this that I doubt it will ever happen. They can't even change line splits....

                          This is why exclusive contracts and a lack of competition kills us gamers. It would be nice if there were a game geared towards football strategists/coaches/simheads. But instead we have one game trying to fulfill a wide variety of different types of football fans and video game fans.
                          Fantastic post. It seems to me if they would spend the extra time with OL/DL AI and blocking strategies it would make the whole game better even for the casual fan who doesn't care about line interaction.

                          I didn't play madden last year but HC 09 actually does a decent job with the zone blocking plays. You get a quick double team on the down linemen and depending on the DL path the other man goes up to the 2nd level to block the LB. Of course counters, traps, option plays are all disasters (blocking wise) but when I see the line block the zone I can see the possibilities of what would be great gameplay if the time was spent on it.

                          Comment

                          • stylee
                            Rookie
                            • Apr 2009
                            • 317

                            #14
                            Re: The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

                            There was a video blog from madden10 detailing some run blocking improvements that looked very impressive to my eyes...I'll see if I can find it.

                            Comment

                            • stylee
                              Rookie
                              • Apr 2009
                              • 317

                              #15
                              Re: The top rushing teams in 2008 and blocking schemes

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rNq-BoksAY


                              7:43 - Midline option from shotgun?

                              The 3-Tech defensive tackle is unblocked and it appears Tebow reads his reaction. It winds up moving further backside because it's in shotgun.

                              1:47 - Speed option.

                              Defensive end goes unblocked as the LT works upfield and blows up an LB. The DE plays Tebow but tries to change his mind at the last minute. TE works downfield, not blocking anyone at the LOS.

                              3:15 - Zone Read. DE unblocked. He pinches down, Tebow keeps.

                              3:47 - Speed option again. #49, DE Kirston Pittman is unblocked. TD.



                              1:06 - the dreaded bubble read?

                              more to come on that one - boss coming in.



                              If it's in the game...and it involves blocking...it's in the..

                              wait, no, ignore it.

                              Comment

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