Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

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  • nbluedevils
    Rookie
    • Sep 2008
    • 52

    #1

    Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

    Now I just want to say that I am not Bill Harris and I am not presenting his work as my own. However, I stumbled upon his blog (literally and figuratively) and I think that he has some amazing sliders here. Here is the post from his blog describing the process he went through to obtain his sliders and then the sliders themselves. It's literally like playing real football:

    By Bill Harris

    VERSION 2****VERSION 2***VERSION 2

    GAME OPTIONS
    Quarter length: 12
    Play clock: On
    Accel clock runoff: 15 seconds
    Injuries: 50 (still checking)
    Fatigue: 50 (still checking)
    Game speed: Fast*
    Player min speed thresh: 70
    Camera angle: Wide
    Fight For the Fumble: Off

    PENALTIES:
    Offside 100
    False Start 100
    Holding 52 (very touchy--don't go higher than this)
    Facemask at 62* [1]
    Def PI 100
    Off PI 100
    KR/PR Int 70
    Clipping 75
    Int Grounding 70
    Rough Passer 75
    Rough Kicker 75

    PLAYER SKILL
    (note: at first, it looks like there are only four sliders. Press "A" on each to access the sub-settings (thanks to Bill Abner for the tip).
    Passing:
    QB Accuracy 20
    Pass Blocking 80*
    WR Catching 50
    Rushing:
    Broken Tackles 55 [2]
    Run Blocking 100
    Fumbles 25
    Pass Defense:
    Reaction Time 15* [3]
    Interceptions 25
    Pass Rushing 70* [4]
    Rush Defense:
    Reaction Time 5
    Block Shedding 0
    Tackling 45

    CPU SKILL
    Passing:
    QB Accuracy 25* [5]
    Pass Blocking 80*
    WR Catching 50
    Rushing:
    Broken Tackles 55
    Run Blocking 100
    Fumbles 25
    Pass Defense:
    Reaction Time 100* [6]
    Interceptions 25
    Pass Rushing 95* [7]
    Rush Defense:
    Reaction Time 5
    Block Shedding 0
    Tackling 45

    SPECIAL TEAMS
    FG Power 60* [8]
    FG Accuracy 40
    Punt Power 60
    Punt Accuracy 80
    Kickoff Power 50

    * indicate settings that have changed from V1.
    Notes:
    [1] I was trying to get Facemask penalties to compensate for the lack of defense of pass interference penalties. It does, but it's annoying, so I lowered the setting.

    [2] if you're using the truck stick and special moves extensively, you'll want to REDUCE this setting. This was balanced for players who usually let the CPU run the ball for them, or just sprint with the RB without using special moves.

    [3] slightly lowered to help the CPU offense.

    [4] the biggest change in this version is to the pass rush. Based on stopwatch timing, neither the CPU nor the human player had enough time to throw the ball against a standard pass rush in comparison to real NFL numbers (both were averaging below three seconds against a four-man pass rush). Now, time and the pocket should be much more realistic (slightly over three seconds for the human player, on average), and the CPU was given a bonus of about three-tenths of a second to give them more time to make decisions.

    [5] I tested this setting with both the most accurate and least accurate quarterback in the league, along with a few others. It works fine with starters and backups, but third stringers with accuracy below 60 are going to struggle (as they do in real life). And if you're playing as the Giants and have to put Andre Woodson (their third string quarterback and least accurate QB in the game--accuracy in the 30's) in the game, good luck.

    [6] this setting is really cranked up from version one. CPU pass defense was just too weak, and this significantly improves the CPUs ability to cover receivers.

    [7] slightly lowered to increase the time that the human quarterback has to pass.

    [8] slightly increased because too many lower-tier kickers had less kick power than in real life. I'm still working on this, because I'm still not completely satisfied.

    I'm really pleased with how these play on Fast. The CPU passing game is much more effective, CPU Pass defense is better, and both the human player and the CPU have a more realistic length of time in the pocket.
    Last edited by nbluedevils; 08-21-2009, 08:42 PM.
  • airjam389
    Rookie
    • Aug 2004
    • 40

    #2
    Re: Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

    I just saw these on his website as well. I'm really curious about them. It's a different idea from what most people are doing, and I'll admit that I'm really enjoying the game on slow/very slow.

    Still, his logic is compelling, and I'm definitely a sim kind of player, so this is something I'm going to have to look into.

    I think the question for me is, does my skill match up to the "real" speed of the NFL? Sure, it would be great if the game was exactly like the NFL, but if I can't make football descisions as quickly as an NFL player, then I'm putting myself at a serious disadvantage. It's only "realistic" or "sim" for me if I can play at an NFL speed. At this point, I'm not sure I can do that.

    Nonetheless, this is the first thing I'll be trying out tonight.

    Comment

    • Azamien
      MVP
      • Mar 2005
      • 1475

      #3
      Re: Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

      Since Devin Hester is a 99 for speed, I used him as the first test.

      Like I mentioned, Hester can run a 4.24 in real life. In practice mode, though, he's running on natural grass, from a standing start, and the fly pattern isn't an exactly straight line. Factoring in those variables, if I can get Hester to run in the 4.45-4.55 range, and I think that qualifies as realistic.

      The game ships with a default speed setting of "slow." At that setting, what is Hester's time in the 40?
      He didn't run 4.24 in pads.

      The sliders look interesting and I'll give them a try, but I have major issues with his speed expectations.
      Impact de Montréal
      Tous Pour Gagner

      Comment

      • bcruise
        Hall Of Fame
        • Mar 2004
        • 23274

        #4
        Re: Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

        Originally posted by Azamien
        He didn't run 4.24 in pads.

        The sliders look interesting and I'll give them a try, but I have major issues with his speed expectations.
        That's why he said he was shooting for 4.45-4.55.

        I'm trying a game right now. Be warned - you might want to restart a time or two if you've been playing on slow - the speed will blow you away.

        Comment

        • KRS-One
          Rookie
          • Aug 2005
          • 346

          #5
          Re: Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

          Originally posted by bcruise
          That's why he said he was shooting for 4.45-4.55.

          I'm trying a game right now. Be warned - you might want to restart a time or two if you've been playing on slow - the speed will blow you away.
          I still think 4.45 is too high. Something more like 4.8 would be more realistic, which is why I think I'll try these out on Fast instead of Very Fast.
          Orioles-Ravens-Wizards-Capitals

          "Excuse me, but Hiphop these days, it don't enthuse me"

          ---Chino XL

          Comment

          • g2thecore
            MVP
            • Jun 2008
            • 1818

            #6
            Re: Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

            That was a very interesting read. I like his way of thinking, but I doubt I'll be able to handle the "very fast" speed. I got used to the slow, and I'm loving it.

            That being said, I'll experiment with this, and I'll post my thoughts when I'm done. Great job OP!

            P.S: Please post some stats, and game results. I'd like to see what you're getting.
            "I'll die before I lose, cuz I was born to win."- Drake

            Comment

            • cactusruss
              Pro
              • Aug 2004
              • 731

              #7
              Re: Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

              Nobody can run a 4.5 40 in full pads, not even Hester. If his absolute best 40 time on a perfect running surface in perfect running clothes is 4.24 seconds, his 40 time on a football field in full pads is going to be around 4.9, at best.

              I'm interested in trying the game play sliders, but this guy's logic in how he came up with game speed is severely flawed.

              Comment

              • huxbux
                Rookie
                • Aug 2009
                • 19

                #8
                Re: Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

                Originally posted by bcruise
                That's why he said he was shooting for 4.45-4.55.

                I'm trying a game right now. Be warned - you might want to restart a time or two if you've been playing on slow - the speed will blow you away.
                He factored a 4.45-4.55, as he mentioned, because it's tested on a fly pattern and on natural grass(not sure why he mentions from a standing start as combine times are done from a standing start). All this sounds about right, but I'd still tack on more time for running in pads. I'd say the 4.45-4.55 range is too fast.

                As a side note, Hester actually ran a 4.27. Chris Johnson ran a 4.24.

                Comment

                • miaturne
                  Rookie
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 44

                  #9
                  Re: Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

                  Its definitely worth a shot. Harris is right that EA put the option to speed the game up exactly for realism purposes. Besides, if you have been to a real NFL game, then you notice that the action is incredibly faster (because you are watching the players move from a fixed position) than it appears on TV when the camera is following the ball.

                  I released a "re-rated roster" years ago for Madden 04, which followed these same principles. Rating every player to match their true speeds. Made the game 10 times better.
                  Last edited by miaturne; 08-17-2009, 06:46 PM.

                  Comment

                  • g2thecore
                    MVP
                    • Jun 2008
                    • 1818

                    #10
                    Re: Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

                    Originally posted by huxbux
                    He factored a 4.45-4.55, as he mentioned, because it's tested on a fly pattern and on natural grass(not sure why he mentions from a standing start as combine times are done from a standing start). All this sounds about right, but I'd still tack on more time for running in pads. I'd say the 4.45-4.55 range is too fast.

                    As a side note, Hester actually ran a 4.27. Chris Johnson ran a 4.24.
                    No combine 40 yard dash is done from a 3 point stance.
                    "I'll die before I lose, cuz I was born to win."- Drake

                    Comment

                    • bill2451
                      Banned
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 1123

                      #11
                      Re: Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

                      if you look at his sliders, it looks like they are set to help make up for the speed...

                      ex: Run blocking for user is 100 while cpu block shedding is 0 and rush reaction time is 5... so at that speed decision making would be harder, but the AI is more forgiving

                      Comment

                      • Tikerz
                        Rookie
                        • May 2003
                        • 139

                        #12
                        Re: Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

                        Originally posted by g2thecore
                        No combine 40 yard dash is done from a 3 point stance.
                        Are you sure?

                        <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KfGjFKCuv2M&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KfGjFKCuv2M&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

                        Comment

                        • g2thecore
                          MVP
                          • Jun 2008
                          • 1818

                          #13
                          Re: Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

                          All I'm gonna say is the guy sounds like he knows what he's talking about. At the very least, I'll give it a try and see how it plays. If it's too challenging for me, I'll just go back to my regular sliders.

                          I'm willing to try whatever makes the game fun and realistic.
                          "I'll die before I lose, cuz I was born to win."- Drake

                          Comment

                          • nbluedevils
                            Rookie
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 52

                            #14
                            Re: Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

                            Originally posted by g2thecore
                            That was a very interesting read. I like his way of thinking, but I doubt I'll be able to handle the "very fast" speed. I got used to the slow, and I'm loving it.

                            That being said, I'll experiment with this, and I'll post my thoughts when I'm done. Great job OP!

                            P.S: Please post some stats, and game results. I'd like to see what you're getting.

                            Yeah, I found it really compelling too. I'm not near my console right now where the stats are saved, but I'll post some stuff up tonight when I get home. It's different, but once you get used to it you understand what it feels like to be on the field at a professional football game. The action is quick and fluid and you are rewarded for making good split-second decisions when you need them most. They most certainly aren't for everyone, but it's a refreshing take on the game (and proof that sliders really, really work this year).

                            Comment

                            • g2thecore
                              MVP
                              • Jun 2008
                              • 1818

                              #15
                              Re: Bill Harris' Realism Sliders

                              Originally posted by Tikerz
                              Are you sure?

                              <object height="344" width="425">


                              <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KfGjFKCuv2M&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="425"></object>
                              Positive....Freeze the video at 0:06 seconds....:wink:
                              "I'll die before I lose, cuz I was born to win."- Drake

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