Blocking logic has gotten worse

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  • PGaither84
    MVP
    • Mar 2009
    • 4393
    #1

    Blocking logic has gotten worse

    After have a long conversation with Ryan Moody about Madden and it's history I felt compelled to make two videos showing Madden's past. In this talk it was said how much similar Madden 10, despite the graphic face lift, looks like Madden on the last generation; How the poor blocking AI isn't any better or worse than what we have seen over at least the last 6 years; and finally why I and others are truly losing faith in what Ian says.

    In making my two videos I actually found that Madden 02's blocking logic is the best Madden blocking logic I have seen to date.

    The footage speaks for itself, and I did my best to keep this as short as possible and to the point while still giving live examples.

    <object width="480" height="385">


    <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/X7HYZ3fRT_s&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

    For those unable to view the video at work or where ever, the gist is that in Madden 02, the offensive line treats the 4-3 and the 3-4 dfferently regarding it's blocking assignments and they actually consistently 5 out of 5 times double team the NT and play side DE on a run play for a 1 count before sealing off and moving on to the second level just like they should in real life.

    <object width="480" height="385">


    <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4syICr8u83A&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

    In this second video we see example after example of the regression of the blocking AI logic in Madden and further more see a lot of similarities to even today's game on default settings. One has to ask why a game made 6 years ago, with the exception of the graphics, looks eerily similar to Madden 10 and all of the "next generation" of Madden games?

    I don't care if we are told that on the 360 that EA had to start from scratch, I call shenanigans! The proof, at least regarding blocking AI and interactions, is in the footage.

    Madden 10, just another roster update w/ pro-tak, online franchise, and towels? It is very possible.

    P.S. I won't be surprised to see this locked. Forget comparing Madden to "the other game" let's just compare Madden to Madden and see what we find.
    My Madden Blog
    Tags: None
    • DerkontheOS
      GB
      • Jul 2009
      • 3138
      #2
      Re: Blocking logic has gotten worse

      Wow good work sir I hope someone from EA sees this......

        Comment

        • mike24forever
          Old Guy
          • Sep 2003
          • 3172
          #3
          Re: Blocking logic has gotten worse

          It blows my mind to the extent people will go to not enjoy this game, or any game for that matter.. I have never bought any video game and sat down to play it with the intention of picking it a part to find every possible problem. If the game is not to your liking STOP BUYING IT! However, do not worry about my opinion, it has no consequence in the grand scheme of life, just like the Madden haters who are about to show their opinion about your video.
          I am the lesson after the fall.

            Comment

            • ACardAttack
              Pro
              • Jul 2005
              • 711
              #4
              Re: Blocking logic has gotten worse

              Originally posted by ms24forever
              It blows my mind to the extent people will go to not enjoy this game, or any game for that matter.. I have never bought any video game and sat down to play it with the intention of picking it a part to find every possible problem. If the game is not to your liking STOP BUYING IT! However, do not worry about my opinion, it has no consequence in the grand scheme of life, just like the Madden haters who are about to show their opinion about your video.
              I dont think its so much people looking for things to complain about, but certain things like blocking logic are pretty easy to see and annoying.

                Comment

                • countryboy
                  Growing pains
                  • Sep 2003
                  • 52852
                  #5
                  Re: Blocking logic has gotten worse



                  People have way too much time on their hands.
                  I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

                  I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


                  Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

                    Comment

                    • grunt
                      Banned
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 9527
                      #6
                      Re: Blocking logic has gotten worse

                      Originally posted by countryboy


                      People have way too much time on their hands.
                      This is one of the most important threads on here. We need to pay more attention to offensive line play.

                        Comment

                        • bang911
                          Pro
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 607
                          #7
                          Re: Blocking logic has gotten worse

                          Nice work on the videos. That outside double team was working very well in 02'.

                            Comment

                            • nuckles2k2
                              MVP
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 1922
                              #8
                              Re: Blocking logic has gotten worse

                              and for every bad example of blocking logic...you have a good one...

                              <object height="360" width="640">

                              <embed src="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/110.3.1/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="height=360&width=640&file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2/madden10/2312/792A0001_2_FLV_VIDEO_guo.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/9275928&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&image =" height="360" width="640"></object>EA Sports: Madden NFL 10 Video Highlight


                              I don't see anything that's glaringly bad with my blocking there, I even saw my left tackle block a linebacker in the second level and my WR knocked his man out of the way and that sprung me for the TD. It's also worth noting that I didn't touch the turbo until I was out in front of everyone. Every time I see someone complaining about the blocking, in person or on Live, they've always used the "suction button" (turbo button) behind or near the line of scrimmage, and that triggers those crazy animations where your guys don't block or defenders clip through blockers, etc. I GUARANTEE you that if I held down turbo at any point before the 30 yard line...I would have miraculously been tackled by someone.

                              Now the pursuit angles are a different story, because P-Willie probably should have had me right there but he turns up the field for some reason. And dont ask me what #36 was doing... While I do agree that they need to clean up the blocking in the game, I also think that a lot of the complaints about blocking (especially in the running game) is because using turbo makes things get all wonky and crazy and it sucks defenders to the ball carrier for some reason.

                              Actually, it even happens on the first play of your first video. You're speeding to the hole (I'm assuming you're using turbo) and someone rips off of a block and flings himself at your legs... Now in Madden 10 the guy just doesn't get blocked sometimes, he'll run right around or even straight past the guy that's supposed to be blocking him.

                              Nothings changed, it's just the form in which the craziness is delivered. In the past the guys would just rip off of blocks and tackle, and now they do that, or they just don't get blocked at all. It's still a problem with turbo being a suction button also, not exclusively a speed burst.
                              Last edited by nuckles2k2; 09-18-2009, 08:21 AM.

                                Comment

                                • countryboy
                                  Growing pains
                                  • Sep 2003
                                  • 52852
                                  #9
                                  Re: Blocking logic has gotten worse

                                  Originally posted by grunt
                                  This is one of the most important threads on here. We need to pay more attention to offensive line play.
                                  I didn't claim it wasn't important, nor was I demeaning his findings. I said what I did because he actually took the time to do all this research, and play and compare the last gen games to Madden '10. Again, not poking fun at him nor his findings, just making a light-hearted comment about how much time it must've took to do this, hence the at the end of my statement. I also thought the would show that the comment was meant in a joking, light-hearted manner and not an attacking one.

                                  Perhaps I should've used instead?
                                  I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

                                  I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


                                  Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

                                    Comment

                                    • grunt
                                      Banned
                                      • Jul 2002
                                      • 9527
                                      #10
                                      Re: Blocking logic has gotten worse

                                      Originally posted by countryboy
                                      I didn't claim it wasn't important, nor was I demeaning his findings. I said what I did because he actually took the time to do all this research, and play and compare the last gen games to Madden '10. Again, not poking fun at him nor his findings, just making a light-hearted comment about how much time it must've took to do this, hence the at the end of my statement. I also thought the would show that the comment was meant in a joking, light-hearted manner and not an attacking one.

                                      Perhaps I should've used instead?
                                      My bad, I play old football games and compare but I never put my results on youtube.

                                        Comment

                                        • grunt
                                          Banned
                                          • Jul 2002
                                          • 9527
                                          #11
                                          Re: Blocking logic has gotten worse

                                          Originally posted by nuckles2k2
                                          and for every bad example of blocking logic...you have a good one...

                                          <object height="360" width="640">

                                          <embed src="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/110.3.1/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="height=360&width=640&file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2/madden10/2312/792A0001_2_FLV_VIDEO_guo.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/9275928&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&image =" height="360" width="640"></object>EA Sports: Madden NFL 10 Video Highlight


                                          I don't see anything that's glaringly bad with my blocking there, I even saw my left tackle block a linebacker in the second level and my WR knocked his man out of the way and that sprung me for the TD. It's also worth noting that I didn't touch the turbo until I was out in front of everyone. Every time I see someone complaining about the blocking, in person or on Live, they've always used the "suction button" (turbo button) behind or near the line of scrimmage, and that triggers those crazy animations where your guys don't block or defenders clip through blockers, etc. I GUARANTEE you that if I held down turbo at any point before the 30 yard line...I would have miraculously been tackled by someone.

                                          Now the pursuit angles are a different story, because P-Willie probably should have had me right there but he turns up the field for some reason. And dont ask me what #36 was doing... While I do agree that they need to clean up the blocking in the game, I also think that a lot of the complaints about blocking (especially in the running game) is because using turbo makes things get all wonky and crazy and it sucks defenders to the ball carrier for some reason.
                                          Madden blocking is the great mystery. One play it works then the next play ofensive line play look broken. I have a feeling the offensibe ai logic get funky depending on the defensive fronts.

                                            Comment

                                            • countryboy
                                              Growing pains
                                              • Sep 2003
                                              • 52852
                                              #12
                                              Re: Blocking logic has gotten worse

                                              Originally posted by grunt
                                              My bad, I play old football games and compare but I never put my results on youtube.
                                              No worries...
                                              I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

                                              I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


                                              Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

                                                Comment

                                                • nuckles2k2
                                                  MVP
                                                  • Sep 2006
                                                  • 1922
                                                  #13
                                                  Re: Blocking logic has gotten worse

                                                  one more post...

                                                  this is a vid from a friend of mine who was complaining about the defensive end ripping off of his block to tackle him...when I asked if he was using turbo, he said he was.

                                                  <img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://counters.gigya.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEyNTMyODA1NDk*NzQmcHQ9MTI1MzI4MDU1MDQ1MS ZwPTk1MDcxJmQ9Jmc9MSZvPTU4ZTc4NjczZjI2YTRmOTk4MDli NGY4YzJjMjY5N2UzJm9mPTA=.gif" /><object width="640" height="360"><param name="wmode" value="transparent" valuetype="data" /><param name="movie" value="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/110.3.1/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf?file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2/madden10/139525/792A0001_3_FLV_VIDEO_Iss.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/8990508&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&image =" valuetype="data" /><embed src="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/110.3.1/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="height=360&width=640&file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2/madden10/139525/792A0001_3_FLV_VIDEO_Iss.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/8990508&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&image ="></embed></object><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://www.easports.com/" target="_top" shape="rect">EA Sports</a>: <a href="http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/8990508" target="_top" shape="rect">Madden NFL 10 Video Highlight</a></div>

                                                  and this is a video I saved a while back...it's a similar play from a different angle obviously, I didn't touch turbo until after the spin move and once again, I'm out in front of everyone... you can even see when he take it up a notch in the open field.

                                                  <img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://counters.gigya.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEyNTMyODA3MzE2MDkmcHQ9MTI1MzI4MDczMjQ4MC ZwPTk1MDcxJmQ9Jmc9MSZvPTU4ZTc4NjczZjI2YTRmOTk4MDli NGY4YzJjMjY5N2UzJm9mPTA=.gif" /><object width="640" height="360"><param name="wmode" value="transparent" valuetype="data" /><param name="movie" value="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/110.3.1/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf?file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2/madden10/2312/792A0001_1_FLV_VIDEO_zXk.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/8859410&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&image =" valuetype="data" /><embed src="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/110.3.1/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="height=360&width=640&file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2/madden10/2312/792A0001_1_FLV_VIDEO_zXk.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/8859410&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&image ="></embed></object><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://www.easports.com/" target="_top" shape="rect">EA Sports</a>: <a href="http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/8859410" target="_top" shape="rect">Madden NFL 10 Video Highlight</a></div>

                                                  I still think the problem lies with the turbo trigger sucking defenders towards you. You can even see it in your vids Gaither...in the old days the blocking still looked pretty but the suction tackling was still there...now the blocking doesn't maintain that nice sheen of polish when the suction tackling kicks in...

                                                    Comment

                                                    • grunt
                                                      Banned
                                                      • Jul 2002
                                                      • 9527
                                                      #14
                                                      Re: Blocking logic has gotten worse

                                                      Originally posted by nuckles2k2
                                                      one more post...

                                                      this is a vid from a friend of mine who was complaining about the defensive end ripping off of his block to tackle him...when I asked if he was using turbo, he said he was.

                                                      <img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://counters.gigya.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEyNTMyODA1NDk*NzQmcHQ9MTI1MzI4MDU1MDQ1MS ZwPTk1MDcxJmQ9Jmc9MSZvPTU4ZTc4NjczZjI2YTRmOTk4MDli NGY4YzJjMjY5N2UzJm9mPTA=.gif" /><object width="640" height="360"><param name="wmode" value="transparent" valuetype="data" /><param name="movie" value="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/110.3.1/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf?file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2/madden10/139525/792A0001_3_FLV_VIDEO_Iss.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/8990508&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&image =" valuetype="data" /><embed src="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/110.3.1/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="height=360&width=640&file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2/madden10/139525/792A0001_3_FLV_VIDEO_Iss.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/8990508&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&image ="></embed></object><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://www.easports.com/" target="_top" shape="rect">EA Sports</a>: <a href="http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/8990508" target="_top" shape="rect">Madden NFL 10 Video Highlight</a></div>

                                                      and this is a video I saved a while back...it's a similar play from a different angle obviously, I didn't touch turbo until after the spin move and once again, I'm out in front of everyone... you can even see when he take it up a notch in the open field.

                                                      <img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://counters.gigya.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEyNTMyODA3MzE2MDkmcHQ9MTI1MzI4MDczMjQ4MC ZwPTk1MDcxJmQ9Jmc9MSZvPTU4ZTc4NjczZjI2YTRmOTk4MDli NGY4YzJjMjY5N2UzJm9mPTA=.gif" /><object width="640" height="360"><param name="wmode" value="transparent" valuetype="data" /><param name="movie" value="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/110.3.1/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf?file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2/madden10/2312/792A0001_1_FLV_VIDEO_zXk.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/8859410&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&image =" valuetype="data" /><embed src="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/110.3.1/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="height=360&width=640&file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2/madden10/2312/792A0001_1_FLV_VIDEO_zXk.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/8859410&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&image ="></embed></object><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://www.easports.com/" target="_top" shape="rect">EA Sports</a>: <a href="http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/8859410" target="_top" shape="rect">Madden NFL 10 Video Highlight</a></div>

                                                      I still think the problem lies with the turbo trigger sucking defenders towards you. You can even see it in your vids Gaither...in the old days the blocking still looked pretty but the suction tackling was still there...now the blocking doesn't maintain that nice sheen of polish when the suction tackling kicks in...
                                                      This been an issue with madden for a long time. I try to go into the hole at one speed and come out of the whole in the 2nd gear.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • nuckles2k2
                                                          MVP
                                                          • Sep 2006
                                                          • 1922
                                                          #15
                                                          Re: Blocking logic has gotten worse

                                                          Originally posted by grunt
                                                          This been an issue with madden for a long time. I try to go into the hole at one speed and come out of the whole in the 2nd gear.
                                                          yep that's the way you're supposed to run the rock, but most of the time when people complain about bad blocking it's because they're trying to speed to and through the hole...like they only have one gear. And that triggers the suction tackling...and all of the weird things we see on the LOS in Madden 10.

                                                          But if you lay off of the turbo and only use it when you see green pastures in front of you then all of these blocking anomalies are cut in half.

                                                            Comment

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