Will the OPTION be fixed this year - QB being tackled and still pitching

[Kingspadee]

Nothing is worse than those that run the option and as their QB is going down they still are able to flick the ball to their RB.

This is one of my biggest gripes of NCAA

[Palo20]

Re: Will the OPTION be fixed this year - QB being tackled and still pitching

I thought it was a lot better last year. When I ran the option, I would try and get as close to the defender as possible before pitching but I always got sucked into tackles and couldn't get the pitch off.

[davep]

Re: Will the OPTION be fixed this year - QB being tackled and still pitching

I agree.

Let's see...3 years it's been broken, so nope, not counting on it!

[steebu]

Re: Will the OPTION be fixed this year - QB being tackled and still pitching

Nothing is worse than those that run the option and as their QB is going down they still are able to flick the ball to their RB.

This is one of my biggest gripes of NCAA

Wow. That's your biggest gripe? That the QB flicks the ball as he's face-planting in the ground?

Oh, actually, maybe you're coming from a defender's standpoint? Yeah, I guess I could see how that's pretty annoying if you're on D.

So let me expound on my issues with the option (and to a lesser degree, the playbook for GT/Navy) in NCAA 10. I'll start with minor issues:

1. It takes forever for the A-Backs to get to the LOS. Really, what gives? Play with the GT playbook, and you'll notice your slotbacks (the "A-Back" in the GT offense) stand in place for about 3 seconds while everyone else gets to the line. By the time everyone gets to the line, the A-Backs begin moving into position. Run a "traditional" or shotgun offense and everyone lines up immediately.

2. Pitch relationship and pitch are way off. I realize that when you get hit you may not get the perfect pitch off. But the way the way the QB pitches to the pitch back looks very odd. Typically you'll want to lead your pitch back so he can run "into" the pitch. Take a look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trDCbdeyVyQ

and scrub forward to the :47 mark. You'll see a sequence of 3 straight pitches where Josh Nesbitt "leads" his pitch back. Often you'll see the pitch back in the video game reaching way behind him, or the pitch keeps him on the same path parallel to the line of scrimmage.

3. Along the same lines, if you start running downfield, you'll notice that at some point your pitch back suddenly veers off and gets out of pitch relationship. It's like some awful programming took over and suddenly the pitch back decides to run backwards and try to block someone behind the QB instead of staying with the play.

4. On the Slotback toss sweep play the pitch gather looks awful! The same animation plays over and over, and it's one where the A-Back twists his body backwards to receive the pitch. Thus, if the play is being run to the left, the A-Back slows down, reaches awkwardly to his right, gathers the pitch, then regains his momentum. The whole point of this play is to get the ball on the perimeter as quickly as possible. Compare this to a regular pitch play run out of the I-formation. The back receives the pitch between the tackles as he is starting to gain speed. The slotback pitch play, however, is supposed to get the A-Back running at full steam outside of the playside tackle when he receives the ball. Again, just a guess, but maybe it's lousy programming by EA because they figured out that if this actually happens the play becomes unstoppable so they cheat by playing a slowdown animation? And guess what? I ran the toss repeatedly out of the I-formation and never once saw that animation! When running the toss out of the I-formation the toss is always on target.

5. The play listed as "Trap Option" is my favorite play that Navy and GT (in real life) run because of its extreme complexity in terms of motion and footwork by the OL and QB. Two things to note about this play:

A. There is no mesh between the QB and B-Back in real life.
B. The backside guard pulls just like he does in real life, but unlike real life, he stupidly stands around and doesn't log the 5-tech (or really #1, if you're familiar with option football). In layman's terms, the pulling backside guard is supposed to pull, then block the widest defensive player on the line. Well, in real life, depending on the alignment, it could also be the playside tackle in which case the guard would take out one of the LB's, but rarely does any of this happen. Usually the guard pulls and doesn't do anything. More often than not, this play just blows up.

6. Teams that face GT/Navy/Army are forced into playing man-to-man. Why? Because they have to account for each and every player because of the threat of the triple option. Thus, as any good cheeser will figure out, you can run the Twins Over formation and if you run into a zone defense, you will get a numbers advantage. Translation: you will have two WR's blocking one CB, because the other CB is on the other side of the field. Nor does the defense shift over. But, yes, EA took care of this again with cheap programming: if you run the Twins Over formation and run into a zone, your WR's will NOT block well and will more often than not lose the blocking battle with the CB. Solution? Re-cheese and replace your WR's with blocking TE's! Then run the Twins Over formation and triple option a zone defense team to death.

7. Timing of the tail motion is stuck to a single animation. By tail motion I mean the motion of the A-Back before the snap. If you watch GT or Navy play, you will see that some triple option plays don't even use tail motion. Sometimes the A-Back will take a step and then the ball is snapped. And sometimes the ball is snapped well after the tail motion has begun. In the video game, the ball is always snapped just before the A-Back gets to the B-Back (the fullback), thus negating the advantage of snapping the ball on different tail motion. If I know the ball is going to be snapped at a certain point, I can always jump that snap.

8. For crying out loud, there are no TE's in Paul Johnson's spread option. Navy didn't have any TE's and neither did GT. In fact, when Johnson arrived at GT the TE's bailed and transferred!!! The stupid game restricts me to 70 players and I'm pissed that 3 of them are slotted for TE's that are unused in the offense.

And now we come to the heart of the whole discussion. EA claims the blocking on the option is "the most realistic ever". Well, I guess we'll see. Until I see a good combo by the guard to the MLB I won't believe it. When I see the backside guard pull and log the 5-tech DE I'll believe it.

I saw a post where a producer said

When you're running the option, it's all about leaving that play-side defensive end alone. So if you're running the triple option or a read option, it's all about reading that end and making your call.

Ah, yes, slowly the EA guys are learning. Hey, guys, I know you read my post last year (http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-fix-long.html). I know because your improvements to the option are directly tied to things I've pointed out in that post. And I've chatted with the ghost of gameplay producers past.

But let me tell you something: the triple option isn't, "all about leaving that play-side defensive end alone." There's so much that goes into this offense and a simple, cosmetic, "Oh, we left the defensive end unblocked!" isn't going to fix it. Does your A-Back arc block the corner? Can you switch the blocking scheme and have him load instead if you see a two-count? Do you leave the OLB unblocked so the QB can pitch off him? Do you realize that when facing a 3-4 defense with a 5-0-5 front (ends cover the tackles, noseguard on center) with two OLB's flanking the DE's, you essentially leave the entire side of the defensive line unblocked on a triple option? You leave the 5-tech DE unblocked as your dive key and the OLB as your pitch key. Does that happen in the game? Cuz it'd be awesome if it did ...

Furthermore, if you are running midline, do you leave the 3 tech unblocked?

Want even more of a headache? How about running midline triple option? Muahahaha ... yes, Navy ran it. GT ran it (albeit for one play last year).

But, for now, I guess we'll settle for baby steps. I'll be happy with just leaving #1 unblocked so you can read him as the dive key IF you fix 1-8 above. Probably in 2012, right?

And hey guys, if you're gonna fix all that in 2012, I'm sure the defensive guys would love to see some "How do we stop the triple option"? Well, you can start by adjusting the dive key. Have fun coding that one up! I'll even give you a head-start on where to begin:

http://www.bbuzzoff.com/forum3/17171-1.html

[JerseySuave4]

Re: Will the OPTION be fixed this year - QB being tackled and still pitching

its one thing if they're going to let the pitch get off as he's getting hit or tackled but the accuracy of the pitch should be much worse at least.

[ActLikeYouCrow]

Re: Will the OPTION be fixed this year - QB being tackled and still pitching

accuracy and all around unrealistic pitches

[leetdemon]

Re: Will the OPTION be fixed this year - QB being tackled and still pitching

IT was not fixed last year, I can do it 9/10 times still. I hope to god they do fix this issue. Its def not realistic at all.

[rollinphat]

Re: Will the OPTION be fixed this year - QB being tackled and still pitching

and fix the bug where the qb pitches the ball and the running back drops it and instead of it being a FUMBLE its called a INCOMPLETE PASS.

[jello1717]

Re: Will the OPTION be fixed this year - QB being tackled and still pitching

and fix the bug where the qb pitches the ball and the running back drops it and instead of it being a FUMBLE its called a INCOMPLETE PASS.

That's correct. A lot of pitches are forward pitches (which is why they count as passing/receiving TDs sometimes instead of rushing TDs). If a forward pitch (technically a shovel pass) is dropped, it is an incomplete pass.

Every time I've looked @ a replay of one of these plays, it has in fact been a forward pitch and should've counted as an incomplete pass/completed pass instead of a fumble/rushing play.

[rollinphat]

Re: Will the OPTION be fixed this year - QB being tackled and still pitching

That's correct. A lot of pitches are forward pitches (which is why they count as passing/receiving TDs sometimes instead of rushing TDs). If a forward pitch (technically a shovel pass) is dropped, it is an incomplete pass.

Every time I've looked @ a replay of one of these plays, it has in fact been a forward pitch and should've counted as an incomplete pass/completed pass instead of a fumble/rushing play.

yeah i understand that...not sure what your trying to say?

I had a play where I hit the QB as he was pitching the ball BACK to the running back.
The ball hit the running backs FEET. I went to pick up the ball and the screen said INCOMPLETE PASS. I couldn't believe it.

[Sting]

Re: Will the OPTION be fixed this year - QB being tackled and still pitching

Wow. That's your biggest gripe? That the QB flicks the ball as he's face-planting in the ground?

Oh, actually, maybe you're coming from a defender's standpoint? Yeah, I guess I could see how that's pretty annoying if you're on D.

So let me expound on my issues with the option (and to a lesser degree, the playbook for GT/Navy) in NCAA 10. I'll start with minor issues:

1. It takes forever for the A-Backs to get to the LOS. Really, what gives? Play with the GT playbook, and you'll notice your slotbacks (the "A-Back" in the GT offense) stand in place for about 3 seconds while everyone else gets to the line. By the time everyone gets to the line, the A-Backs begin moving into position. Run a "traditional" or shotgun offense and everyone lines up immediately.

2. Pitch relationship and pitch are way off. I realize that when you get hit you may not get the perfect pitch off. But the way the way the QB pitches to the pitch back looks very odd. Typically you'll want to lead your pitch back so he can run "into" the pitch. Take a look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trDCbdeyVyQ

and scrub forward to the :47 mark. You'll see a sequence of 3 straight pitches where Josh Nesbitt "leads" his pitch back. Often you'll see the pitch back in the video game reaching way behind him, or the pitch keeps him on the same path parallel to the line of scrimmage.

3. Along the same lines, if you start running downfield, you'll notice that at some point your pitch back suddenly veers off and gets out of pitch relationship. It's like some awful programming took over and suddenly the pitch back decides to run backwards and try to block someone behind the QB instead of staying with the play.

4. On the Slotback toss sweep play the pitch gather looks awful! The same animation plays over and over, and it's one where the A-Back twists his body backwards to receive the pitch. Thus, if the play is being run to the left, the A-Back slows down, reaches awkwardly to his right, gathers the pitch, then regains his momentum. The whole point of this play is to get the ball on the perimeter as quickly as possible. Compare this to a regular pitch play run out of the I-formation. The back receives the pitch between the tackles as he is starting to gain speed. The slotback pitch play, however, is supposed to get the A-Back running at full steam outside of the playside tackle when he receives the ball. Again, just a guess, but maybe it's lousy programming by EA because they figured out that if this actually happens the play becomes unstoppable so they cheat by playing a slowdown animation? And guess what? I ran the toss repeatedly out of the I-formation and never once saw that animation! When running the toss out of the I-formation the toss is always on target.

5. The play listed as "Trap Option" is my favorite play that Navy and GT (in real life) run because of its extreme complexity in terms of motion and footwork by the OL and QB. Two things to note about this play:

A. There is no mesh between the QB and B-Back in real life.
B. The backside guard pulls just like he does in real life, but unlike real life, he stupidly stands around and doesn't log the 5-tech (or really #1, if you're familiar with option football). In layman's terms, the pulling backside guard is supposed to pull, then block the widest defensive player on the line. Well, in real life, depending on the alignment, it could also be the playside tackle in which case the guard would take out one of the LB's, but rarely does any of this happen. Usually the guard pulls and doesn't do anything. More often than not, this play just blows up.

6. Teams that face GT/Navy/Army are forced into playing man-to-man. Why? Because they have to account for each and every player because of the threat of the triple option. Thus, as any good cheeser will figure out, you can run the Twins Over formation and if you run into a zone defense, you will get a numbers advantage. Translation: you will have two WR's blocking one CB, because the other CB is on the other side of the field. Nor does the defense shift over. But, yes, EA took care of this again with cheap programming: if you run the Twins Over formation and run into a zone, your WR's will NOT block well and will more often than not lose the blocking battle with the CB. Solution? Re-cheese and replace your WR's with blocking TE's! Then run the Twins Over formation and triple option a zone defense team to death.

7. Timing of the tail motion is stuck to a single animation. By tail motion I mean the motion of the A-Back before the snap. If you watch GT or Navy play, you will see that some triple option plays don't even use tail motion. Sometimes the A-Back will take a step and then the ball is snapped. And sometimes the ball is snapped well after the tail motion has begun. In the video game, the ball is always snapped just before the A-Back gets to the B-Back (the fullback), thus negating the advantage of snapping the ball on different tail motion. If I know the ball is going to be snapped at a certain point, I can always jump that snap.

8. For crying out loud, there are no TE's in Paul Johnson's spread option. Navy didn't have any TE's and neither did GT. In fact, when Johnson arrived at GT the TE's bailed and transferred!!! The stupid game restricts me to 70 players and I'm pissed that 3 of them are slotted for TE's that are unused in the offense.

And now we come to the heart of the whole discussion. EA claims the blocking on the option is "the most realistic ever". Well, I guess we'll see. Until I see a good combo by the guard to the MLB I won't believe it. When I see the backside guard pull and log the 5-tech DE I'll believe it.

I saw a post where a producer said

When you're running the option, it's all about leaving that play-side defensive end alone. So if you're running the triple option or a read option, it's all about reading that end and making your call.

Ah, yes, slowly the EA guys are learning. Hey, guys, I know you read my post last year (http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-fix-long.html). I know because your improvements to the option are directly tied to things I've pointed out in that post. And I've chatted with the ghost of gameplay producers past.

But let me tell you something: the triple option isn't, "all about leaving that play-side defensive end alone." There's so much that goes into this offense and a simple, cosmetic, "Oh, we left the defensive end unblocked!" isn't going to fix it. Does your A-Back arc block the corner? Can you switch the blocking scheme and have him load instead if you see a two-count? Do you leave the OLB unblocked so the QB can pitch off him? Do you realize that when facing a 3-4 defense with a 5-0-5 front (ends cover the tackles, noseguard on center) with two OLB's flanking the DE's, you essentially leave the entire side of the defensive line unblocked on a triple option? You leave the 5-tech DE unblocked as your dive key and the OLB as your pitch key. Does that happen in the game? Cuz it'd be awesome if it did ...

Furthermore, if you are running midline, do you leave the 3 tech unblocked?

Want even more of a headache? How about running midline triple option? Muahahaha ... yes, Navy ran it. GT ran it (albeit for one play last year).

But, for now, I guess we'll settle for baby steps. I'll be happy with just leaving #1 unblocked so you can read him as the dive key IF you fix 1-8 above. Probably in 2012, right?

And hey guys, if you're gonna fix all that in 2012, I'm sure the defensive guys would love to see some "How do we stop the triple option"? Well, you can start by adjusting the dive key. Have fun coding that one up! I'll even give you a head-start on where to begin:

http://www.bbuzzoff.com/forum3/17171-1.html

[stylee]

Re: Will the OPTION be fixed this year - QB being tackled and still pitching

Babysteps, steebu! We've got an unblocked end for the first time in history.

I foresee big issues with my slots arc-blocking (or switching vs. a cover 2? Or loading vs. a 4-4?). I think the slot is going to run into the first guy in his path, even if that path is angled outside.

Midline was a question I had too. I think it's possible that we can read the 3, though I wouldn't say I'm betting on it. The problem is going to be people who don't know what this means and will complain because it's "broken" if it's actually fixed.


I'm happy that at least some of the stuff you've complained about has been implemented. The reading the EMLOS is huge for me and I think I'll buy the game this year on that basis alone.

My team is running pistol spread this year (ski-gun)...
how great would a Create-a-play be for simulating that?

I downloaded the ACCCG----you still going to make a BBuzz post on it?

[Sting]

Re: Will the OPTION be fixed this year - QB being tackled and still pitching

Babysteps, steebu! We've got an unblocked end for the first time in history.

I foresee big issues with my slots arc-blocking (or switching vs. a cover 2? Or loading vs. a 4-4?). I think the slot is going to run into the first guy in his path, even if that path is angled outside.

Midline was a question I had too. I think it's possible that we can read the 3, though I wouldn't say I'm betting on it. The problem is going to be people who don't know what this means and will complain because it's "broken" if it's actually fixed.


I'm happy that at least some of the stuff you've complained about has been implemented. The reading the EMLOS is huge for me and I think I'll buy the game this year on that basis alone.

My team is running pistol spread this year (ski-gun)...
how great would a Create-a-play be for simulating that?

I downloaded the ACCCG----you still going to make a BBuzz post on it?

Bbuzz gettin love on OS. Love it.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Will the OPTION be fixed this year - QB being tackled and still pitching

Don't need a 2000 word reply for this....
Yes it needs fixed...period.

Having perfect pitches while the QB is getting hammered is a way overdue issue.

[Sting]

Re: Will the OPTION be fixed this year - QB being tackled and still pitching

Don't need a 2000 word reply for this....
Yes it needs fixed...period.

Having perfect pitches while the QB is getting hammered is a way overdue issue.

The pitch issue is A LOT deeper than just the qb pitching as he's wrapped up. The whole thing is bad.