Roster Idea for EA

[opivy]

So I am a mad scientist programmer and I do a lot of DB work - what I think EA should do to make a LOT of their problems with rosters etc go away is this, with all their games not just college FB.

Make players with the following fields by Default.

First Name
Last Name
Number 10

By doing this, they have the ability to release roster updates throughout the season that modify the ratings of players - so that you don't have the super bama defense that everyone is clamoring about, the player ratings can change through the year to reflect realistic play. By leaving the name fields blank, and keying off of the number field they can still stay ok with the NCAA but allow the community to modify the names of the players - they key would be to tie in the roster update portion where only certain values are modified instead of a complete re-write (XML, SQL or other DB update procedures)

This process could also allow us the community to modify and update rosters faster, I could do just Notre Dame, you could download the partial roster update and take my information in, with this method you could recruit 118 people to do the rosters and have them completed a few hours after release date.

Kinda heady for a first post, but you get the picture. EA should be able to work with this system - what does everyone else think for feasibility?

[mmorg]

Re: Roster Idea for EA

They did it for NCAA basketball the one year with the March Madness game on xbox live right?

[dawgbone33]

Another roster idea

why is it they cap every roster at 70 players when in reality all D1 teams have 85?

"If it's in the game, it's in the game" Right?

I realize 15 additional players times 120 teams is a lot, BUT you can't convince me the game & the systems can't handle it.

Every year I set up my dynasty and am forced to cut several players that I'll need in future seasons to make it down to 70.

I was hoping NCAA 11 would be different in this aspect.

[Karlos2121]

Re: Another roster idea

why is it they cap every roster at 70 players when in reality all D1 teams have 85?

"If it's in the game, it's in the game" Right?

I realize 15 additional players times 120 teams is a lot, BUT you can't convince me the game & the systems can't handle it.

Every year I set up my dynasty and am forced to cut several players that I'll need in future seasons to make it down to 70.

I was hoping NCAA 11 would be different in this aspect.

I couldn't agree more....

[Pogo27]

Re: Another roster idea

Every year I set up my dynasty and am forced to cut several players that I'll need in future seasons to make it down to 70.

Recruit better.

Plus have a tendency to cut older players and cut players in positions you have a lot of. Don't cut the third QB who is a 60 when you can cut the 10th WR who is a 65.

I've never had a problem with depth on my teams except in the case of more than one player in the same position being injured. Even when I change offensive or defensive schemes, I can usually recruit well enough to fill in the holes.

When you're recruiting, focus on filling the IMMEDIATE needs first (whatever the game tells you that you definitely need next year). And then, instead of just going after a bunch of the best players, look at your depth chart and go after the best players IN THE POSITIONS YOU WILL NEED the year after.

So, if you have two junior QBs, the game won't tell you that you need a QB THIS YEAR but you can recruit him this year and get him in now.

[Pogo27]

Re: Roster Idea for EA

OP: It's not just the NAME that can get EA in trouble. In fact, student athletes have attempted (unsuccessfully) to sue EA for using their likeness just based on the height/weight/hometown/team/jerseynumber/looks/etc. If you then go to edit Ark QB#15's stats in the game based on how well Arkansas' starting QB Ryan Mallett is performing, then you've made the case for the student athlete that much stronger if they decide they want to sue EA, a case that EA may not be able to win.

And it's not that EA doesn't want to pay the student athletes, or that the NCAA has a problem with EA using the student athletes' names & likeness. The problem is that the student athletes can not be paid for their status as a student athlete, because that takes them out of the realm of amateur and into the realm of professional, and therefore ineligible to compete.

If EA could work out a deal that the NCAA would be okay with, EA would be paying the student athletes to use their likenesses and we'd have names on rosters. But that's not allowed, and EA isn't about to let itself get sued just to use the names.

[yanks26ngoin]

Re: Another roster idea

why is it they cap every roster at 70 players when in reality all D1 teams have 85?

"If it's in the game, it's in the game" Right?

I realize 15 additional players times 120 teams is a lot, BUT you can't convince me the game & the systems can't handle it.

Every year I set up my dynasty and am forced to cut several players that I'll need in future seasons to make it down to 70.

I was hoping NCAA 11 would be different in this aspect.

This is like beating a dead horse! The travel roster for a team is 70 players. So, instead of having us deactivate 15 players a week, they just give us 70 man rosters. Its really alot easier this way than just deactivating 15 guys a week.

[Security Device]

Re: Another roster idea

I realize 15 additional players times 120 teams is a lot, BUT you can't convince me the game & the systems can't handle it.

Actually Madden and NCAA have problems every year on fitting everything on the disc. There is all kinds of stuff that we never see because it has to get cut to make room.

[helix139]

Re: Another roster idea

Actually Madden and NCAA have problems every year on fitting everything on the disc. There is all kinds of stuff that we never see because it has to get cut to make room.

I guess we can all thank Microsoft for their well thought out decision to use DVD as their storage medium.

In all seriousness, though, if they can't fit the additional players on the disc, they could at least expand the cap on roster size to allow the gamer to fill in the extra players. That would not increase the code size on disk at all, but would amount to changing a stored value from 70 to 85 in a couple of places and reserving enough memory space for the times when the entire team rosters are called into memory, such as when editing depth charts or rosters, recruiting, etc. I don't believe more than 22 players are loaded into memory at any one time during gameplay, and memory is not crunched during non-gameplay, so that shouldn't be an issue.

[helix139]

Re: Another roster idea

This is like beating a dead horse! The travel roster for a team is 70 players. So, instead of having us deactivate 15 players a week, they just give us 70 man rosters. Its really alot easier this way than just deactivating 15 guys a week.

The problem there is you don't have access to the full 85 at home and redshirts, injuries, etc. that wouldn't be on the travel roster are counted against your 70. I'd rather have the roster capped at 85 and let the computer determine who gets deactivated every week based on the depth chart for those who don't want to do it themselves. Wouldn't be a hard change to make.

[Pogo27]

Re: Roster Idea for EA

Are you really, REALLY going that deep in your depth chart? Seriously?


I don't think I've ever even gotten into my bottom 15 out of 70, much less got to 70 and needed another 15 players.

A 70 player roster lets you roll 3-deep at all positions plus have a kicker, punter, and some leftover slots.

And by that I don't mean you get 3 WRs... I mean you get 6-9 WRs depending on how spread out you run your formations, and you get 3+ RBs, 3-6 TE, etc. 3 QBs.

Let's say you're running a team where you use primarily 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB, but sometimes put in a FB, or a second TE. You can have 3 QBs, 8 WRs (that's 3 starters, 3 back ups, and 2 guys that will probably never play), 4 RBs, 2 FBs, 4 TEs, and 2 at every offensive line position. You've only use 31 players. Then let's just say you're going to run a 4-3 defense. 5 DEs, 5 DTs, 3 MLBs, 6 OLBs, 6 CBs, 3 FSs, 3 SSs. That's another 31 players.

31 offense, 31 defense, that's 62 of your 70 slots. Of those 62 guys, 2-3 of them will double as KR/PR. Now add a kicker and a punter, and you're at 64. Still have 6 open slots.

You're at least 3 deep all the way accross the board except at WR, DE, DT where you're 1 short of being 3 deep, but you're not likely to get that far down the depth chart. Not to mention, you can easily add 1 more of each of these positions and still be at 69 and STILL have an extra slot.

Want to run a spread offense instead? Easy. Instead of 4 RB, 2 FB, 4 TE, 8 WR, do 3 RB, 1 FB, 2 TE, 12 WR.

Want to run 3-4 instead of 4-3? Cut back from 5 to 3 DTs, and increase from 3-5 MLBs.

Want to run 3-3-5 instead of 4-3 or 3-4? Cut down to 3 DTs, and 5 OLBs, and add 1 CB, 1 FS, 1 SS.

And remember, these suggestions not only put you at 3-deep all the way across the board but also give you extra slots.

You don't need 10 WRs if you use a power running game. You don't need 5 RBs and probably can get away with 0 FB if you run a spread offense. You don't need as many DTs as DEs in a 3-4, you don't need as many MLBs as OLBs in 4-3 offense. Not to mention, OLB and MLB can be interchanged without losing to much. Also, OLB and DEs can some times be effectively interchanged. DEs can sometimes move to DT and DT can sometimes move to DE. All the DB positions are close so you can always try moving any CB to a safety position and vice versa. TEs can play FB and vice versa. Some RBs do all right as WRs. CBs and WRs can sometimes be interchanged. Any offensive linemen can pretty much play anywhere on the line. Etc, etc, etc. Now, I'm not guaranteeing that every FS will also be an excellent CB, or whatever. I'm just listing similar positions where I've had success changing a players position.

70 slots is far more than enough. In the NFL, they're only allowed 55 players on game day. You should be able to figure out how to make 70 work for you.

Learn how to grade talent and don't be afraid to cut upperclassmen. Don't keep extra players at a position if you don't have space just because you think they might have potential. If they're not going to play this season or next season (because they're right behind a senior) then they're likely easily replaceable in next season's recruiting process.

[helix139]

Re: Roster Idea for EA

Are you really, REALLY going that deep in your depth chart? Seriously?


I don't think I've ever even gotten into my bottom 15 out of 70, much less got to 70 and needed another 15 players.

A 70 player roster lets you roll 3-deep at all positions plus have a kicker, punter, and some leftover slots.

And by that I don't mean you get 3 WRs... I mean you get 6-9 WRs depending on how spread out you run your formations, and you get 3+ RBs, 3-6 TE, etc. 3 QBs.

Let's say you're running a team where you use primarily 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB, but sometimes put in a FB, or a second TE. You can have 3 QBs, 8 WRs (that's 3 starters, 3 back ups, and 2 guys that will probably never play), 4 RBs, 2 FBs, 4 TEs, and 2 at every offensive line position. You've only use 31 players. Then let's just say you're going to run a 4-3 defense. 5 DEs, 5 DTs, 3 MLBs, 6 OLBs, 6 CBs, 3 FSs, 3 SSs. That's another 31 players.

31 offense, 31 defense, that's 62 of your 70 slots. Of those 62 guys, 2-3 of them will double as KR/PR. Now add a kicker and a punter, and you're at 64. Still have 6 open slots.

You're at least 3 deep all the way accross the board except at WR, DE, DT where you're 1 short of being 3 deep, but you're not likely to get that far down the depth chart. Not to mention, you can easily add 1 more of each of these positions and still be at 69 and STILL have an extra slot.

Want to run a spread offense instead? Easy. Instead of 4 RB, 2 FB, 4 TE, 8 WR, do 3 RB, 1 FB, 2 TE, 12 WR.

Want to run 3-4 instead of 4-3? Cut back from 5 to 3 DTs, and increase from 3-5 MLBs.

Want to run 3-3-5 instead of 4-3 or 3-4? Cut down to 3 DTs, and 5 OLBs, and add 1 CB, 1 FS, 1 SS.

And remember, these suggestions not only put you at 3-deep all the way across the board but also give you extra slots.

You don't need 10 WRs if you use a power running game. You don't need 5 RBs and probably can get away with 0 FB if you run a spread offense. You don't need as many DTs as DEs in a 3-4, you don't need as many MLBs as OLBs in 4-3 offense. Not to mention, OLB and MLB can be interchanged without losing to much. Also, OLB and DEs can some times be effectively interchanged. DEs can sometimes move to DT and DT can sometimes move to DE. All the DB positions are close so you can always try moving any CB to a safety position and vice versa. TEs can play FB and vice versa. Some RBs do all right as WRs. CBs and WRs can sometimes be interchanged. Any offensive linemen can pretty much play anywhere on the line. Etc, etc, etc. Now, I'm not guaranteeing that every FS will also be an excellent CB, or whatever. I'm just listing similar positions where I've had success changing a players position.

70 slots is far more than enough. In the NFL, they're only allowed 55 players on game day. You should be able to figure out how to make 70 work for you.

Learn how to grade talent and don't be afraid to cut upperclassmen. Don't keep extra players at a position if you don't have space just because you think they might have potential. If they're not going to play this season or next season (because they're right behind a senior) then they're likely easily replaceable in next season's recruiting process.

Why would you be against implementing 85 man roster spaces when the effort required to do so would be so minimal? Just curious.

As far as why we need all those players, besides the realism factor, the smaller the rosters, the more it rewards lesser teams. The big difference between a Florida, Bama, or USC and a Kentucky or South Carolina is depth. All teams get some talented players that would start anywhere. The great programs get quality depth and are able to sub out quality players liberally with other quality players, replace them when injured, or plug in quality experience when players graduate or leave for the NFL. These things happen, and they happen on a regular basis. Bigger rosters with more fatigue requiring more subs and more use of depth and personnel groupings is a much more realistic game. Any CFB fan who understands the game can tell you this.

Also, since when will NCAA allow me to have no FB, or no TE's, etc?

[Security Device]

Re: Roster Idea for EA

Also, if they add 15 players/slots to every team, they'd have to account for that in recruiting too. That is a ton more randomly generated players that need to take up space on the disc as well. I'm not an expert on how this would happen, but it just seems like it's more complicated then just poppin' in 15 more peeps per team. Maybe it's not. I dunno.

[Pogo27]

Re: Roster Idea for EA

Also, since when will NCAA allow me to have no FB, or no TE's, etc?

It depends on what playbook you're using, I believe. I remember last year I played in an online dynasty using North Texas. Their default playbook had no formations that called for FBs, and therefore you didn't need any.

It's just like when you pick your defensive formation, when you change the formation your team uses (in coach strategy) it changes the required minimum number of players at a position.


I'm not against 85 player rosters. I just don't see why such a big deal is being made about it. Even on the highest quality teams like your Florida, Alabama, USC, etc. most of those guys 71-85 wouldn't be starting for any other program either, and most likely not a back up any where either. And they're not going to get any playing time at one of this big time programs. Maybe if they're lucky some playing time at one of the lesser programs, as there kind of is a cap on how terrible a player can be...

I understand personnel groupings and subs, etc. etc. etc. But what I outlined above allows you to run pretty much 3 deep all the across at every position, even in positions like QB where your back-ups only play in blow-outs or in case of injury. With a 70 player roster, are you getting significant stats with all of your non-redshirted players? Your 8th WR has at least 10 catches in the season? Your 8th CB has significant playing time? Your 4th RB has at least 100 rushing yards?

The advantage the more prestigious programs have is recruiting. Yeah, their second-string players could play just about anywhere else, and that's necessary because so often their players leave early for the draft. But the best college football programs are the programs that replace those players via recruiting.


Moreover, let's take a look at a real college roster and see how many of their non-redshirted players see any playing time.


All I'm saying is that more than likely you're probably using 50ish players, tops, in any given season. That gives you 20ish spots to keep for underclassmen to develop.

A real college football roster could have as many as 20 WRs. Half of them will NEVER see any playing time. Never. Not as freshmen, not as redshirt seniors.

And if it comes down to letting me have 20 WRs in my dynasty mode or giving me Road to Glory, or whatever else is currently in the game that I'd have to sacrifice, I'd prefer the extra content to the overabundance of players that will never get used.

Those players that are 71-85 on real college football rosters, if you saw them in NCAA 11, those are the guys whose overall ratings would be 30-55ish, tops.

[boilerfan1509]

Re: Roster Idea for EA

Wow this thread got ambushed by the "make the roster size 85" crew.

An idea that seems simple to me..........is to have a RosterBuilder site. Just like TeamBuilder. But instead of it being individual "created" teams, have it be all 120 D1 teams. Make it to where your RosterFile could be downloaded by other users. (ALL OF THIS ALREADY EXISTS....just have to put it together).

Then add the ability to take teams from one roster file and combine with teams from another roster file, while still giving us complete control to edit any of the teams. And it is all set.

Open the RosterBuilder site a month before release and let the community make the rosters fill in names, modify ratings, and have everything done by release day.

Shoot EA could in theory then randomize all 70 players per team and would be able to completely avoid any "likeness" that they are getting sue'd about now.

This doesnt seem like anything more than what EA already provides, just making what they provide more efficient.