Sports games are going in the wrong direction and our missing some of the most

[Blitzburgh]

important ingredients to move forward in 2011 and beyond…..It's a little long but hopefully worth your time...

**I wasn't sure where to put this so please move it where appropriate. Thanks

First, FORGET about the broadcast look! I know a lot of sports gamers have been asking for years for Madden, NCAA, the Show etc… to replicate the look of a broadcast and in my opinion we pretty much got that to a degree. The further they take that style of presentation the more the game doesn’t feel like I am playing a game. Does that make sense? I want it to be as real looking and playing as the next but I want to feel like it’s still a game and I am in complete control of my team and players.

Secondly, get rid of the god like perspective! (at least make it an option for those that do not want change and innovation). With all of the advancement and technology out there today why can’t they put me on the field and create playable camera angles that are different when I am running, passing, kicking and playing defense? Did you ever notice how excited everyone gets when they show a teaser trailer and they use great sounds and camera angles to bring you in to the moment? Why can’t they make this happen in the actual game?

Thirdly are the sounds of being on the field. In my opinion, no matter who they get to do commentary it doesn’t flow right, it gets repetitive and there is no real emotion connected to what is taking place on the field. Let’s take baseball for example: If I am on the mound I want to hear my teammates chanting my name or nickname for most people. I want to hear my coaches giving me words of encouragement and advice. I want my catcher to let me know to relax and where to keep my pitches as a guy like Ortiz comes to the plate. I want to hear the boos and cheers based on my performance but without a camera that centers the action on me and down on the field it won’t create the immersion of being in that moment.

Finally, let’s talk football for a minute. NCAA has finally been released and while I didn’t buy it yet I have played the demo many times. They are definitely on the right path with the sounds from the band playing to the crowd chants to the entrances to the field really made me feel like I was in the moment until the god view shed his head upon us once again and the ever so repetitive commentary kicked in. I love the view when you lock on a player though! It’s not perfect but it creates more of that feeling of being in the moment (If only the sound changed when I locked on to a player). Why is that not an optional camera that I can use and still be able to switch my guys? I understand on defense it could make things a bit disoriented but on offense I see no reason they can’t make that happen. How about when kicking field goals? Why can’t the camera be at field level behind me? It not only looks great but the pressure it adds to kicking is intense.

So, with all that being said, I would like to see a huge change in the way games are played. Put the emphasis on me, the player I am controlling, and put the camera down on the field with all of the sounds that come with being in that moment. If I want to watch a game I can turn on my cable box. When I want to play a game, well, I prefer the 360 or Ps3 for that enjoyment.
Any thoughts?

[mrprice33]

Re: Sports games are going in the wrong direction and our missing some of the most

important ingredients to move forward in 2011 and beyond…..It's a little long but hopefully worth your time...

**I wasn't sure where to put this so please move it where appropriate. Thanks

First, FORGET about the broadcast look! I know a lot of sports gamers have been asking for years for Madden, NCAA, the Show etc… to replicate the look of a broadcast and in my opinion we pretty much got that to a degree. The further they take that style of presentation the more the game doesn’t feel like I am playing a game. Does that make sense? I want it to be as real looking and playing as the next but I want to feel like it’s still a game and I am in complete control of my team and players.

Secondly, get rid of the god like perspective! (at least make it an option for those that do not want change and innovation). With all of the advancement and technology out there today why can’t they put me on the field and create playable camera angles that are different when I am running, passing, kicking and playing defense? Did you ever notice how excited everyone gets when they show a teaser trailer and they use great sounds and camera angles to bring you in to the moment? Why can’t they make this happen in the actual game?

Thirdly are the sounds of being on the field. In my opinion, no matter who they get to do commentary it doesn’t flow right, it gets repetitive and there is no real emotion connected to what is taking place on the field. Let’s take baseball for example: If I am on the mound I want to hear my teammates chanting my name or nickname for most people. I want to hear my coaches giving me words of encouragement and advice. I want my catcher to let me know to relax and where to keep my pitches as a guy like Ortiz comes to the plate. I want to hear the boos and cheers based on my performance but without a camera that centers the action on me and down on the field it won’t create the immersion of being in that moment.

Finally, let’s talk football for a minute. NCAA has finally been released and while I didn’t buy it yet I have played the demo many times. They are definitely on the right path with the sounds from the band playing to the crowd chants to the entrances to the field really made me feel like I was in the moment until the god view shed his head upon us once again and the ever so repetitive commentary kicked in. I love the view when you lock on a player though! It’s not perfect but it creates more of that feeling of being in the moment (If only the sound changed when I locked on to a player). Why is that not an optional camera that I can use and still be able to switch my guys? I understand on defense it could make things a bit disoriented but on offense I see no reason they can’t make that happen. How about when kicking field goals? Why can’t the camera be at field level behind me? It not only looks great but the pressure it adds to kicking is intense.

So, with all that being said, I would like to see a huge change in the way games are played. Put the emphasis on me, the player I am controlling, and put the camera down on the field with all of the sounds that come with being in that moment. If I want to watch a game I can turn on my cable box. When I want to play a game, well, I prefer the 360 or Ps3 for that enjoyment.
Any thoughts?

Have you played the Road to Glory mode yet? That's what you're asking for.

[Greatgazoo2]

Re: Sports games are going in the wrong direction and our missing some of the most

That's a pretty long winded rant for someone who doesn't even own the game yet! LOL Just teasing.

I see your points, to an extent. The problem is, immersion is a subjective thing. What you see as immersion, someone else sees as limiting the field of view. Game physics aren't an easy thing to figure out, and it takes years of perfecting the way players bounce off of each other, grab, hold on, react to ball movement, etc. With each change in perspective, from high above, to low on the field, you have to readjust all of those physics properties. Not an easy task, especially with games that come out every year. Development time for the next game starts pretty immediately after release of the current year.

You have good ideas, and some of them would be cool to see in a game. I remember 2K doing the first person view the last couple of years they made football, and it was a nice addition, but wasn't perfect by any means. It definitely added to the immersion of the game, but just wasn't quite what I would like to see in game changes like you mention. Good thoughts though man, and well written. Thanks

[Blitzburgh]

Re: Sports games are going in the wrong direction and our missing some of the most

That's a pretty long winded rant for someone who doesn't even own the game yet! LOL Just teasing.

I see your points, to an extent. The problem is, immersion is a subjective thing. What you see as immersion, someone else sees as limiting the field of view. Game physics aren't an easy thing to figure out, and it takes years of perfecting the way players bounce off of each other, grab, hold on, react to ball movement, etc. With each change in perspective, from high above, to low on the field, you have to readjust all of those physics properties. Not an easy task, especially with games that come out every year. Development time for the next game starts pretty immediately after release of the current year.

You have good ideas, and some of them would be cool to see in a game. I remember 2K doing the first person view the last couple of years they made football, and it was a nice addition, but wasn't perfect by any means. It definitely added to the immersion of the game, but just wasn't quite what I would like to see in game changes like you mention. Good thoughts though man, and well written. Thanks

Thank you my friend...

I remember the 2k first person cam too. No, it wasn't perfect but it was different and did have some good moments. I think I am looking for something that takes maybe a piece of that with a touch of Back Breaker with and a dash of superstar mode or the lock on cam in NCAA. The most important thing though for all of that to work has to be all of the authentic sounds that you would hear if you where in the position.

I like RTTS but it is missing most of the authentic sounds that would create more immersion. IMO

[JMBOO]

Re: Sports games are going in the wrong direction and our missing some of the most

I see what you are saying for some games, but, for others, I think they are going in the right direction.

Basically, if you look at games such as NHL, FIFA, and NCAA, the devs have listened to what people want and have tried to give them that immersive feeling whilst also having control over your players. All of these games also do have that camera angle included in them to put you down on field level and more into the action.

As far as sounds, one thing that I always do is turn the commentary way down, the crowd up to max, and leave the other sounds about where they are. To me, this allows you to hear the actual sounds of the game much better while still having that just able to barely hear it commentary (kind of gives it a sports movie like feel).

Honestly though, I really do think that most devs realize that you have to give people great gameplay first and foremost before you can give them the extra's.

I mean, 11 is going to be a nice year for sports games I really think. NCAA 11 is the best game of Football I have played in at least six years. NHL 11 is starting to incorporate real physics into an already great game (a very exciting development). FIFA 11 is looking like it will once again be a top flight title.

The game that has me most intrigued, however, is NBA 11. The devs have shown great strides in their game over the last 2 seasons, and, I really think that this years version could be a return to championship level. We'll see when the demo comes out though.

Anyway, that is just what I think, so , take it for what it is worth.

[Reggie16]

Re: Sports games are going in the wrong direction and our missing some of the most

As soon as i read "our" instead of "are" i quit reading. lol

[BaylorBearBryant]

Re: Sports games are going in the wrong direction and our missing some of the most

You should try EA's NHL series, either rent it or buy it. Then get back to me and see if that's what you're looking for.

[ODogg]

Re: Sports games are going in the wrong direction and our missing some of the most

LOL reggie. I don't want to be in first person mode. Yes I know some of you think that's the future but its' not and here's why. A real life athlete has peripheral vision and other senses that a videogame cannot replicate. Yes you can do a semi-decent job of it in some games (NHL comes to mind) but in others it's simply awful (NFL2K5's first person perspective comes to mind) but even at best it's very limiting. Until we get advances in technology where we have a virtual holodeck these ways of programming videogames are nothing more than a gimmick at best.

[coogrfan]

Re: Sports games are going in the wrong direction and our missing some of the most

So, with all that being said, I would like to see a huge change in the way games are played. Put the emphasis on me, the player I am controlling, and put the camera down on the field with all of the sounds that come with being in that moment. If I want to watch a game I can turn on my cable box. When I want to play a game, well, I prefer the 360 or Ps3 for that enjoyment.
Any thoughts?

Sounds like you want all sports games to be like BackBreaker. Thanks, but no thanks.

[TheBGDurham]

Re: Sports games are going in the wrong direction and our missing some of the most

Road to Glory my friend. I agree with the fact that immersion is subjective. One thing I would like to see, that i just thought of reading your post. This "god" perspective. maybe it should be zoomed in more with lower vision ratings, and zoomed out more with greater, simmilar to QB vision from a few years ago. i can't help but disagree with most of your post. I know I don't want back breaker. Well written and thought out, though.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Sports games are going in the wrong direction and our missing some of the most

LOL reggie. I don't want to be in first person mode. Yes I know some of you think that's the future but its' not and here's why. A real life athlete has peripheral vision and other senses that a videogame cannot replicate. Yes you can do a semi-decent job of it in some games (NHL comes to mind) but in others it's simply awful (NFL2K5's first person perspective comes to mind) but even at best it's very limiting. Until we get advances in technology where we have a virtual holodeck these ways of programming videogames are nothing more than a gimmick at best.

We haven't seen it yet but I don't think it's totally impossible to get that peripheral vision in the game. I loved 2K's FP mode but yeah it needed work. I just loved the feel it gave.
Who knows..maybe the 3D tech will get us a lot better representation of "On the field" FP Mode.
It's not for everyone but I think they should still keep plugging away at it.

[ODogg]

Re: Sports games are going in the wrong direction and our missing some of the most

amen coogrfan, I hate that idea as well and fortunately for us, so does most of the buying public. That whole idea of being down on the field in the action is not what I'm looking for in a sports game. I want the broadcast feel and the best camera angles possible to run my team. When I play football I am controlling the team as a whole, not an individual athlete.

it's obvious though that there is a decent market for folks who want the "on the field" action and that's why EA has the Road to Glory, Be-a-Captain type modes in their games. But that segment of the market is not the majority. I personally enjoy those modes as diversions but I never want them to become the main course.

[ODogg]

Re: Sports games are going in the wrong direction and our missing some of the most

Skyboxer - one thing I've read that holds promise for the peripheral vision thing is the multiple monitors setup (one on left, one big one in the middle, one on right) or those new tvs that are U-shaped (and cost more money than Bill gates can afford LOL). Those can mimic peripheral vision. The problem is no one really has that setup except millionares so......until that's the norm I can't see them being able to do all that much with these first person modes. Not much more than they already are I mean..

[demon19000]

Re: Sports games are going in the wrong direction and our missing some of the most

Yeah I'd keep the first person stuff to the specialized modes. If we're talking about realism, the disorientation that goes with switching players in first person mode is kinda unrealistic, thus rendering it useless in regular gameplay. Unless they did something where the screen freezes for 5 seconds when you switch to get your ground. But I wouldn't wanna sit through that.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Sports games are going in the wrong direction and our missing some of the most

Skyboxer - one thing I've read that holds promise for the peripheral vision thing is the multiple monitors setup (one on left, one big one in the middle, one on right) or those new tvs that are U-shaped (and cost more money than Bill gates can afford LOL). Those can mimic peripheral vision. The problem is no one really has that setup except millionares so......until that's the norm I can't see them being able to do all that much with these first person modes. Not much more than they already are I mean..

I was thinking that if you were in a helmet view that on the top L and R there could be 2 little windows (Sort of like the old Madden WR windows) that showed the P vision. The bigger the rating for vision the bigger/clearer the window/view..

It's a thought