Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

Since I probably will not get either NFL game NCAA is just good enough for me, I have a question..... Would you as a fan of the series rather have ESPN do a huge marketing job and have Sega release a game that sells better with the general public, but not be an overall better quality game, or a game that does not put a big dent in Maddens sales but is a quality game that a true football fan would love? So which is it worse game better sales, or better game sales still low? Personaly I think I would hope for this year only maybe a game that was not as good but sold better so no next year they could get a better quality product with a bigger fanbase...... While I know most will probably say better game better advertising beter sales, I want just a response to this question as a ESPN fan would you want a worse game better advertising with better sales, or better game less advertising worse sales? Hope that is clear enough...

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

no question I'd take the better game over sales....I don't know what I'd do if I was limited to Live, NHL, and Fifa.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

I'd take a better game with less advertising. Not to say that they can't advertise and have a better game of course.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

If I was the owner of VC, seriously, I would want the money. I dont care how the game looks and if it sucks,if it has a glitch that makes the chain gang be on the wrong hash marks,I dont care, I want your money.

You may can look at me like I'll be an evil buisness man but hey, all buisnesses are evil. They all want your money. Its possible to put out a good product and still make money and it looks like VC is gonna do that this year. But as far as competitivness, I would try to outsell the other company pure and simple. And thats not what VC is doing.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

Graphik, I tend to agree with you, Sega as well as EA are in the buisness(sp) of selling video games so I think they would also take better sales over a better game any day. But I think really there could be a mix of both good game and good advertising but that has yet to be seen by Sega so far. I think the way Sega will start to make a real gain in sales is flasy advertising (like someone said a while ago hire the guys that do the Sportscenter ads) and word of mouth of happy gamers who need to tell everyone about such a promising game, like I said I have a neutral view on this because I doubt I will get either game but I hope for the sake of competition that Sega can start to make progress on the buisness side of the video games just as they have in the quality of their football games over the years.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

I would rather have a better game. I also think EA and VC know that a better game translates to better sales. VC is chasing a horse (madden) with a big lead. It will take some time to eventually catch and or surpass madden. If we analyze Live vs NBA2k. 2k gained substantial ground by simply making a better product. Was the marketing anymore present in nba2k than in nfl2k, if it was i didn't notice.

VC's biggest problem in football gaming is convincing those that are playing madden that madden is inferior. That is a monumental task because madden has been around for a long time. I do think that this year by combining with an established sports entity such as espn, they will definitely see a sales increase. How much of an increase? only time will tell.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

As long as they'll have the money to be back for 2k5 then no question the gameplay.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

I guess no one remembers those ESPN games by Konami. Even when they had the ESPN license those games did'nt sell well. I know things will change since 2K is a way better product then Konami's games but the point is, a name means just about didily squat.

What Sega/VC needs is in yo face! advertising...NOW. They need to make sure everybody and thier moma knows about this game. They need commercial after commercial on every channel till the point where you're tired of seeing it. They need to imprint images in your brain, they need billboard signs, card board cut outs, newspapers, magazines thats not even abot sports, they need a promotional give aways, sublemianl messages hidden on boxes of Fruit Loops, representatives to be on talk shows, bring back the Calafornia Rasins to sing songs about it, make a tv show, they need any and everything if they wanna sell that game. Word of mouth wont sell as much, they need to smack yo daddy in the face with flyers adn bumber stickers to put on his car.

Bottom line, they need to advertise not now, but right now. EA already started, why come they have'nt?

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

What's up Graphik. I agree with you. VC needs to get it's product to the masses. I still think though that ESPN will play a major role in this. (or should play a major role) I remember when espn made those games with Konami, my first thought was, "since espn is on it, it should be a good game) Well, needless to say it was garbage. Now, you are dealing with a new generation of gamers, some younger, alot more informed. ESPN carries major weight now with todays sports fans. Name recognition goes along way towards selling a product, especially if you haven't played or don't know the game's history. Since most of us know VC and its rep for producing good games, espn really doesn't go along way toward convincing us to buy it. But for newbies? I think it espn will persuade more than some. Along with what you said about an all out advertising blitz.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

Actually 2K has sold well until having to turn third party 2 seasons ago. the NFL2K series has had sales around 2 to 2 1/2 million units on only the dreamcast. Madden2004 hit 4 mill on multiple consoles. I know Sega was hoping those same 2 mill+ people would buy their third party titles. That didn't happen because I'm sure people are still upset by Sega fazing out the Dreamcast after 4 years (which is the average life of a console).

The only way Sega and ESPN can start winning people over is keep making IMO the best sports games available and since ESPN's name is plastered all over the title it wouldn't hurt them to advertise these games like they were their top shelf hookers. It wouldn't hurt to have Warren Sapp going around talking about it either. I know if I was the cover guy for any game I would be trying to get as many people buying it as possible shouting shameless plugs everywhere.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

See thats VC problem. I'm sure they wanna advertise but i'm also sure that ESPN went way way overbudget. They dont have the money to advertise. If I was prez of VC I would hand whoever controls the budget because in the end, they'll end up spending more money than they earn. They could have saved the Crib mode and chain reacton and charge stuff for 2K5. The FPM would have been enough to get ppls attention but the had to go overboard and introduce all these new modes and features along with 1000 new animations. Thats stuff takes time and money and they should be in the hole. With all these new features and whatnot I cant even begin to contemplate what they have in store next year. To me, they played all thier cards this year. Now it seems as if they are playing Russian Roulet with an Automatic.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Fetter21 said:
As long as they'll have the money to be back for 2k5 then no question the gameplay.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
ditto

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

I see no reason why making a great game, would mean they can't advertise it and get good sales.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

Like someone stated above, as long as it is economically viable to make ESPN 2K5 next year, give me that gameplay.

But as for advertising... What do you think (I posted it before)

"ESPN NFL Football... IT'S not in the game.... YOU'RE in the game!!!"

Hey if Sega got away with "Genesis does what Nintendon't," I think they could do it.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Graphik said:
I guess no one remembers those ESPN games by Konami. Even when they had the ESPN license those games did'nt sell well. I know things will change since 2K is a way better product then Konami's games but the point is, a name means just about didily squat.

What Sega/VC needs is in yo face! advertising...NOW. They need to make sure everybody and thier moma knows about this game. They need commercial after commercial on every channel till the point where you're tired of seeing it. They need to imprint images in your brain, they need billboard signs, card board cut outs, newspapers, magazines thats not even abot sports, they need a promotional give aways, sublemianl messages hidden on boxes of Fruit Loops, representatives to be on talk shows, bring back the Calafornia Rasins to sing songs about it, make a tv show, they need any and everything if they wanna sell that game. Word of mouth wont sell as much, they need to smack yo daddy in the face with flyers adn bumber stickers to put on his car.

Bottom line, they need to advertise not now, but right now. EA already started, why come they have'nt?

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I gotta disagree with the name thing meaning nothing. It means A LOT and will be a difference regarding sales for VC this year. What you have to remember when talking about Konami's ESPN game is that there was virtually no adverstising. Poor marketing campaigns will surely spell disaster for any product. People have to know that your product exists and then they have to be made excited about it by having a good commercial. Konami failed to observe those facts and so the product failed.

It did'nt matter that the game happened to suck on top of everything else, weak games sell well all the time. Again, unbelievably poor advertising was the downfall of the Konami project.

All Sega needs to do is have a better produced commercial then waht they've been offering lately (and if they're smart they will take advantage of a dramatic sequence style), spend the money to put it in heavy rotation, and make sure they appear at every demonstration venue humanly possible. That's all they need to do, nothing else.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
gooberstabone said:
Like someone stated above, as long as it is economically viable to make ESPN 2K5 next year, give me that gameplay.

But as for advertising... What do you think (I posted it before)

"ESPN NFL Football... IT'S not in the game.... YOU'RE in the game!!!"

Great quote man, and I think VC should pay attention with this brilliant quoute especially when marketing FPF

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

Also, I gotta say something about this belief that Sega is so broke that they can't do any type of decent advertising. It's simply not true. The cost of commercial advertising has plummeted considerably over the past couple of years. I'm friends with several Executives at major commercial production companies out in California. These companies can produce and secure key airspots for FAR less than you would imagine it to cost. FAR less. You would be wildly surprised.

What drives up the cost of commercial advertising are things like huge Special Effects and Superstar acting talent and/or endorsements. Sega will not need to use any of those things for their commercials since all they will be doing is showing the game. And oh by the way, Warren Sapp was signed for cheap, so that does'nt effect anything either.

I think the fact that there have been so many rumors of Sega merging or VC merging with EA, or Sega folding, etc. this has shaped public opinion about what type of money Sega has and what they are capable of doing, but that public opinion is shaped by nothing more than a rumor. These claims have never been confirmed.

History tells us that Sega has ALWAYS advertised poorly, (though the Dreamcast launch was probably their best effort to date). In the 8-Bit era, for every 20 Nintendo commercials that aired, you probably seen maybe 1 Sega Master System commercial and that's if you stayed up late and just happened to be "lucky" enough to catch it. Sega has always been thrifty, it's how they have always done business. It does'nt mean that somehow they are broke and can't put together a National Ad campaign. If that were the case, I sincerely doubt that ESPN would have gone into business with them, especially after learning from the Konami disaster.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
What you have to remember when talking about Konami's ESPN game is that there was virtually no adverstising. Poor marketing campaigns will surely spell disaster for any product. People have to know that your product exists and then they have to be made excited about it by having a good commercial. Konami failed to observe those facts and so the product failed.

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You just proved my point right there. That poor advertising does'nt see copies. And all I was saying is that ESPN needs mega advertising if they wanna do well.

And if my memory is correct, I did remember seeing commercials for konami's games on ESPN, just not alot. And if they pushed the game down our throats then they would have sold big time.

ESPN network is'nt gonna do nothing to help Sega is the money aint right. Proff being Madden bought them out on Draft day. And if Madden shows ESPN network the money then they certainly will have more advertising regardless if thier name is on another game or not. Its all about the benjemins baby.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
History tells us that Sega has ALWAYS advertised poorly, (though the Dreamcast launch was probably their best effort to date). In the 8-Bit era, for every 20 Nintendo commercials that aired, you probably seen maybe 1 Sega Master System commercial and that's if you stayed up late and just happened to be "lucky" enough to catch it. Sega has always been thrifty, it's how they have always done business. It does'nt mean that somehow they are broke and can't put together a National Ad campaign. If that were the case, I sincerely doubt that ESPN would have gone into business with them, especially after learning from the Konami disaster.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


If thats the case then whoever runs the show at Sega needs to be fired and beaten with billy clubs. So in other words you're saying thier to cheap to pull a major ad campaign. See, thats what I dont understand about Sega, are they tryna win this battle with Madden or are they tryna meet thier sell expectations.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

better game. company sales means jack for me as a gamer.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Graphik said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
History tells us that Sega has ALWAYS advertised poorly, (though the Dreamcast launch was probably their best effort to date). In the 8-Bit era, for every 20 Nintendo commercials that aired, you probably seen maybe 1 Sega Master System commercial and that's if you stayed up late and just happened to be "lucky" enough to catch it. Sega has always been thrifty, it's how they have always done business. It does'nt mean that somehow they are broke and can't put together a National Ad campaign. If that were the case, I sincerely doubt that ESPN would have gone into business with them, especially after learning from the Konami disaster.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


If thats the case then whoever runs the show at Sega needs to be fired and beaten with billy clubs. So in other words you're saying thier to cheap to pull a major ad campaign. See, thats what I dont understand about Sega, are they tryna win this battle with Madden or are they tryna meet thier sell expectations.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Ya know, after so many years of watching Sega and how they choose to advertise, it's so difficult to figure out what their braintrust is actually intending to do sometimes.
It's really ridiculous how they run things sometimes.

It's obvious to us and to anyone else who understands business/marketing that they want to outsell their competition. Going back to what I touched on earlier, a Nat'l ad Campaign will not burn a hole in Sega's pocket in the least bit.... Yet, everytime they have a new product they choose to be thrifty to a fault like they have with the 2K series. Then going back to Dreamcast, they advertised well until after launch and then it was just plain pathetic. Competition did'nt kill Sega, incompetence and penny-pinching killed Sega on many occassions.

This time around, Sega has every tool that a commercial product outfit could ever ask for. They need to show that they have not completely lost their minds and make use of what they have this year. They've got the money, they've got the support, but do they have the people in place to make sure this game is promoted respectably this year? That's the $64,000 dollar question.

Come January, especially after the Holiday season, we will know if Sega decided to cast a line in the Ocean or just go balls out.

I can't wait to see THIS result.

Re: Question for ESPN Football Fans....
 

That is a double-edge sword Super Star. Of course everyone wants the best, most entertaining, NFL game they can possibly have for any given year. But if Sega is not able to sell more games, not necessarily more than Madden, but just increase its own sales so they start seeing profit, the game that we all know is the best out there will eventually become extinct. We can all prevent this from happening by purchasing a brand new copy of the game the first week it is introduced. Don't wait until the standard 3-month $10 price drop in December, buy it for the full $50 the week it is released. If we all do that, we will be rewarded with an even better NFL2k5 next fall. Instead of being forced to plummet into the Maddenite rank &amp; file.