Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

[adembroski]

As is easily noted by playing both, Madden and NCAA are not utterly different game play approaches as they were last year. They are much closer to one another. In fact, it is NCAA that has moved much closer to Madden over the past development cycle.

Nevertheless, I've seen a lot of posts claiming to love NCAA 11 but hate Madden 11. When I play the Madden demo, I get the sense that they are essentially the same game with tuning differences that, for the most part, make sense in the context of what the games cover.

For example, NCAA's players have greater curve in the speed department. NCAA's players don't change directions as smoothly or as quickly. This is realistic, as college football players are, on average, slower and less agile than NFL players.

In fact, the Madden demo has highlighted one of NCAA's flaws to me; the fact that NCAA linemen don't seem to make mental errors (where as they make far too many in Madden).

I'm curious as to why you prefer NCAA, and what about Madden turns you off so much. The same people who are calling NCAA one of the best football games ever made are calling Madden garbage, and I can't seem to figure out how that can be when they are virtually the same game, only tuned different.

NOTE: I'm talking pure gameplay here. I understand the StratPad complaints and I'm with you, but I'd prefer it be kept out of this thread.

[Scottsomnia]

Re: Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

I was having issues with the camera and the feeling of being so far away. I went back between
The 2 games and noticed the view starts out the same but after hike on Madden it zooms out and NCAA it zooms in allowing me to see better.

[Only1LT]

Re: Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

As is easily noted by playing both, Madden and NCAA are not utterly different game play approaches as they were last year. They are much closer to one another. In fact, it is NCAA that has moved much closer to Madden over the past development cycle.

Nevertheless, I've seen a lot of posts claiming to love NCAA 11 but hate Madden 11. When I play the Madden demo, I get the sense that they are essentially the same game with tuning differences that, for the most part, make sense in the context of what the games cover.

For example, NCAA's players have greater curve in the speed department. NCAA's players don't change directions as smoothly or as quickly. This is realistic, as college football players are, on average, slower and less agile than NFL players.

In fact, the Madden demo has highlighted one of NCAA's flaws to me; the fact that NCAA linemen don't seem to make mental errors (where as they make far too many in Madden).

I'm curious as to why you prefer NCAA, and what about Madden turns you off so much. The same people who are calling NCAA one of the best football games ever made are calling Madden garbage, and I can't seem to figure out how that can be when they are virtually the same game, only tuned different.

NOTE: I'm talking pure gameplay here. I understand the StratPad complaints and I'm with you, but I'd prefer it be kept out of this thread.

I have been wondering this myself. They are overwhelmingly similar.

I understand Lighting is better on NCAA. The player models look SLIGHTY better. The ESPN integration is better presentation wise, than Madden's, though still nothing to right home about. Aside from that, I'm at a loss.

Locomotion is tuned a little differently on both games. I actually think it is tuned a little better on Madden than NCAA, but I would not think some one was crazy if they thought the opposite. Even still, they are so similar I just don't get the hate one love the other thing.

To me, if you think NCAA is great, you would, at the very least, have to than that Madden is, at a minimum, pretty good, considering how similar they are. I like Madden 11 slightly more than NCAA based on the demos, but I don't think either is all that great, myself.

Yeah... at a loss on this one lol.

[PGaither84]

Re: Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

At least for me, one big thing about NCAA that I like over Madden is their "120 ways to win." I like how NCAA attempts to recreate how a team plays on the field. More over, how the no huddle/hurry up is done in NCAA. That was revolutionary to me. In the Madden11 demo, if you use the no huddle with the Colts their players get dog tired very quickly just like in years past as a sort of band-aid to limit a players "abuse" of the no huddle offense. In NCAA, if you hold the Y after the play, not only does your team hurry up, but the game gives you a conventional playcall screne that limits you to the formation you were just in. This is great for defense. This is why this is so revolutionary. In the past, if someone used hurry up you were limited to the play you called or a small list of audibles. Now you can dig through your entire formation to find the next play you want. More over, you see the value in this nearly every game, at least those that come down to the wire where a non-hurry up team uses the hurry up. between this and gameflow, I'll take this any day. That doesn't mean I hate game flow, you know I like that feature.

Next, while this may be a college vs pro thing, but Madden still feels like you are throwing on a rope every play, or as other have said, "straight line passing." NCAA, more so with sliders, actually feels like I can guide my throws. I can put a nice lob on a pass or gun it in there. I have been using Stanford and Andrew Luck who is one of the best QBs in the video game. I can feel the difference between him and others when I use other teams. I can't make the same throws that I can with Andrew.

Another thing I like about NCAA over madden is the in-game "gameplan." This is where you can tell your team to be aggressive, conservative, or balanced for various situations. This is an extra level of coaching that makes NCAA 10/11 more fun than Madden for me.

Home field advantage is nice as well. While not as common in the NFL, places like Indy, Seattle, and KC are great examples of HFA in real life. Also, HFA in the playoffs would be nice as well. This is more of a presentation thing for me.

The ball physics are bad in NCAA11, however, in the Madden11 demo they are far worse. From what I read in the IGN review that hasn't changed either. This year looks to be the worst case of it yet.

Lastly, or at least the last I can think of right now is the "ice skating." The demo for Madden 11 is FAR worse of an offender than NCAA11.

Madden 11 is an improvement on Madden 10. However, NCAA11 not only has a ton of improvements stolen from Madden 10 that it didn't get last year, but it got locomotion, presentation, and added features of it's own. Madden 11's demo feels like it is the one left behind in the dust.

[bukktown]

Re: Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

like the NCAA camera a lot better and I like the post play realtime player emotion/interaction. I like the FG camera better. I don't hate the madden demo though

[PrettyT11]

Re: Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

At least for me, one big thing about NCAA that I like over Madden is their "120 ways to win." I like how NCAA attempts to recreate how a team plays on the field. More over, how the no huddle/hurry up is done in NCAA. That was revolutionary to me. In the Madden11 demo, if you use the no huddle with the Colts their players get dog tired very quickly just like in years past as a sort of band-aid to limit a players "abuse" of the no huddle offense. In NCAA, if you hold the Y after the play, not only does your team hurry up, but the game gives you a conventional playcall screne that limits you to the formation you were just in. This is great for defense. This is why this is so revolutionary. In the past, if someone used hurry up you were limited to the play you called or a small list of audibles. Now you can dig through your entire formation to find the next play you want. More over, you see the value in this nearly every game, at least those that come down to the wire where a non-hurry up team uses the hurry up. between this and gameflow, I'll take this any day. That doesn't mean I hate game flow, you know I like that feature.

Just to add to this about the no huddle in NCAA. You are not limited to just that formation on offense or defense. If you press up or down when the plays come up you can cycle through all the formations in your playbook.

[adembroski]

Re: Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

Very happy you in particular responded, PGaither.

At least for me, one big thing about NCAA that I like over Madden is their "120 ways to win." I like how NCAA attempts to recreate how a team plays on the field.

I love the styles myself, and it's a big reason I might be playing NCAA 11 a lot more this year than in the past. I don't think you can deny the fact, however, that it isn't appropriate for Madden.

The schematic differences between NFL teams compared to NCAA teams is minimal. Sure, there are teams that'll use multiple sets or shot gun more than others, and the 49ers and Jets have fairly unique run schemes compared to most teams, but there's a reason NCAA groups all NFL style offenses in the "Pro Style" label; because there really isn't that much difference from one to the next.

Looking at the Jets and Colts playbooks, I'm pleased with them. They highlight the schematic differences between the teams and highlight what those teams tend to do. I don't really know how much further Tiburon could have gone with this short of a revamp of the playbook system (which I think they should do, but it's not a priority compared to blocking assignments and locomotion, imho).

More over, how the no huddle/hurry up is done in NCAA. That was revolutionary to me. In the Madden11 demo, if you use the no huddle with the Colts their players get dog tired very quickly just like in years past as a sort of band-aid to limit a players "abuse" of the no huddle offense. In NCAA, if you hold the Y after the play, not only does your team hurry up, but the game gives you a conventional playcall screne that limits you to the formation you were just in. This is great for defense. This is why this is so revolutionary. In the past, if someone used hurry up you were limited to the play you called or a small list of audibles. Now you can dig through your entire formation to find the next play you want. More over, you see the value in this nearly every game, at least those that come down to the wire where a non-hurry up team uses the hurry up. between this and gameflow, I'll take this any day. That doesn't mean I hate game flow, you know I like that feature.

I can't disagree here at all. I love the no-huddle system in NCAA and it's one clear area that NCAA has a distant advantage.

Next, while this may be a college vs pro thing, but Madden still feels like you are throwing on a rope every play, or as other have said, "straight line passing." NCAA, more so with sliders, actually feels like I can guide my throws. I can put a nice lob on a pass or gun it in there. I have been using Stanford and Andrew Luck who is one of the best QBs in the video game. I can feel the difference between him and others when I use other teams. I can't make the same throws that I can with Andrew.

I feel the other way around. One of my problems with NCAA is the inability to precisely control the touch I put on my passes. I feel far more in control of this in Madden.

Another thing I like about NCAA over madden is the in-game "gameplan." This is where you can tell your team to be aggressive, conservative, or balanced for various situations. This is an extra level of coaching that makes NCAA 10/11 more fun than Madden for me.

I would like to agree, because I see where you are coming from, but my problem with Game Planning in NCAA is that it isn't anything like game planning. Many of the categories within NCAA's gameplanning aren't "Game Plan" type things, but team personality sort of things... a mentality you would instill in training camp and expect to be carried through the season.

I like the idea of having control over your teams personality, but it's not something you can change on a play-to-play or even game-to-game basis. Do you think Mike Singletary takes Takeo Spikes aside and says "I want you to play less intense for this game."

Home field advantage is nice as well. While not as common in the NFL, places like Indy, Seattle, and KC are great examples of HFA in real life. Also, HFA in the playoffs would be nice as well. This is more of a presentation thing for me.

No argument. I want to feel like I'm up against the world heading into KC or the Metrodome.

The ball physics are bad in NCAA11, however, in the Madden11 demo they are far worse. From what I read in the IGN review that hasn't changed either. This year looks to be the worst case of it yet.

IGN was referring to the ball bouncing off players and on the ground. I agree, it's a bit ridiculous in both games. If you're talking about pass trajectory, however, it's improved from the '10 versions of both games, but far better in Madden.

Lastly, or at least the last I can think of right now is the "ice skating." The demo for Madden 11 is FAR worse of an offender than NCAA11.

Again, I have to disagree. I see both as equal offenders in this respect. Admittedly, I wasn't very "aware" of it when I started playing NCAA, but as the luster has started to wear, I'm seeing the sliding quite a bit. Not that I don't see it in Madden, but I see it in both. For some reason, I recognize it more in RtG than Dynasty... maybe its the perspective.

Madden 11 is an improvement on Madden 10. However, NCAA11 not only has a ton of improvements stolen from Madden 10 that it didn't get last year, but it got locomotion, presentation, and added features of it's own. Madden 11's demo feels like it is the one left behind in the dust.

For the record, I don't fault anyone for feeling NCAA 11 is better. I think I prefer NCAA 11 to a certain degree myself, I just can't see someone hating Madden and loving NCAA, and I've seen lots of posts to that effect in the impressions thread.

I believe many of them are overreactions; people accustom to hating Madden, people who are somewhat disappointed it's not quite as polished as NCAA, etc.., but I'm sure there are those who believe firmly that Madden is crap and NCAA is outstanding, and I'm trying to figure out why.

[Valdarez]

Re: Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

From a general perspective, the spastic look of EA's football engine seems to match the college atmosphere far better than the NFL. In general, the teams truly feel different, and feel as though they play different. NCAA does not contain the horrid GameFlow, but a very nice hurry up offense play call screen (which I really liked). I have time to make adjustments in NCAA, not in Madden (everything was sped up). Prefer NCCA's use of buttons over the strategy pad (made for casual/new gamers). Utterly despise Madden's use of coins as an attempt to get us to pay more $$ simply to utilize features that should have been free (Scouting Reports). Better Online Franchise (from what I have heard), definitely a better team builder (I have used).

The 'new' locomotion, and I use that term lightly because I question how new it is when I see the same stride length from last year (not to mention there's no way they motion captured 4 yard stride lengths), has the same bugs in both games. The passing has the same issues in both games. The coverage has the same issues in both games. NCAA seemed to have a better tuned pocket, but I have always thought they had a better pocket, not by a lot, but noticeable.

NCAA feels more like a broadcast presentation. Still miles away from it, but definitely closer than what Madden has done. Both games have issues with camera angles. Both games put in their own take on presentation (ruining the immersion). Both games have poor commentary no banter and a TON of dead space.

To sum, I like NCAA better this year for the following reasons:

• EA's Football Engines seems better suited to College Atmosphere
• Presentation in NCAA is closer to Broadcast Presentation
• LOVE NCAA 11's new strategy based recruiting Mini-Game
• Better Team Builder (can use own logos)
• Road to Glory is another Fun Mode (far superior to Super Star)
• Was expecting bigger gameplay leap this year in Madden, instead they added GameFlow/GamePlan, Strategy Pad, increased their investment into their coin ecosystem by charging us for Scouting Reports and Live Madden Moments, and added 3vs3 online cooperative play (where I believe they may 'sell' boosts again).

NCAA seemed focus on making a better product. Madden seemed focused on watering down Madden to make it supposedly accessible to newer/casual players, and on things that had a direct ROI/Revenue stream attached to them such as Live Madden Moments, Scouting Reports, and 3vs3 online play where they sell the boosting bonuses. With Madden 11, it's easily clear that the revolution Ian promised us is officially dead.

[Presswithsafetyshade]

Re: Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

I enjoyed the NCAA 11 demo. I had issues with certain things (IMO the "skating" in NCAA is worse than the Madden demo, the lighting at 12:30 on a partly cloudy day is way off, psychic DB AI) but overall I liked it. I can't, for the life of me understand how one can praise NCAA for it's locomotion, blocking, route running and better AI when the Madden demo is better in almost every respect in those categories. NCAA 11 is becomming what some say (me not included) about 2k5, a quality game with significant flaws hyped to be something legendary. IMO the Madden 11 demo is better at EVERY aspect of football than NCAA.

[NDIrish98]

Re: Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

As is easily noted by playing both, Madden and NCAA are not utterly different game play approaches as they were last year. They are much closer to one another. In fact, it is NCAA that has moved much closer to Madden over the past development cycle.

Nevertheless, I've seen a lot of posts claiming to love NCAA 11 but hate Madden 11. When I play the Madden demo, I get the sense that they are essentially the same game with tuning differences that, for the most part, make sense in the context of what the games cover.

For example, NCAA's players have greater curve in the speed department. NCAA's players don't change directions as smoothly or as quickly. This is realistic, as college football players are, on average, slower and less agile than NFL players.

In fact, the Madden demo has highlighted one of NCAA's flaws to me; the fact that NCAA linemen don't seem to make mental errors (where as they make far too many in Madden).

I'm curious as to why you prefer NCAA, and what about Madden turns you off so much. The same people who are calling NCAA one of the best football games ever made are calling Madden garbage, and I can't seem to figure out how that can be when they are virtually the same game, only tuned different.

NOTE: I'm talking pure gameplay here. I understand the StratPad complaints and I'm with you, but I'd prefer it be kept out of this thread.

if Madden played like NCAA does this year, that would be a HUGE leap for Madden. Madden doesn't feel like football at all, NCAA does. and another thing that turns me off about Madden is the difference in graphics, Madden looks waaaaay too cartoonish, whereas NCAA looks MUCH more realistic, which plays a huge part in the realism for me.

[NFLHITMAN]

Re: Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

I enjoyed the NCAA 11 demo. I had issues with certain things (IMO the "skating" in NCAA is worse than the Madden demo, the lighting at 12:30 on a partly cloudy day is way off, psychic DB AI) but overall I liked it. I can't, for the life of me understand how one can praise NCAA for it's locomotion, blocking, route running and better AI when the Madden demo is better in almost every respect in those categories. NCAA 11 is becomming what some say (me not included) about 2k5, a quality game with significant flaws hyped to be something legendary. IMO the Madden 11 demo is better at EVERY aspect of football than NCAA.

I agree 100%

I like the Madden Demo more than NCAA.

EDIT: I also liked the rating system in Madden over NCAA.

Example:

Jake Locker predicted to be the #1 pick in this next NFL draft is rated a 97 but how many other QB's in NCAA is rated in the 90's??? A LOT.

Jake Locker has been clocked with a 4.4 forty yard dash and his speed is 72 while Nick Montana is 80 lol.

Alabama wins the Championship and suddenly every starter on that team is rated at least 90 lol.

[ZoneKIller]

Re: Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

Changing teams mid-franchise/dynasty.
Being able to edit body types.The customization NCAA gives with Custom Sounds and Teambuilder.

Frachise/Dynasty in general is why I prefer NCAA 11.

[PGaither84]

Re: Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

Regarding the passing game:

I feel the other way around. One of my problems with NCAA is the inability to precisely control the touch I put on my passes. I feel far more in control of this in Madden.

I use Playmakers Varsity Sliders where QBA is set to 5 [NOTE: VARSTIY difficulty, I accidently was using All-American and the results were terrible.] With those sliders, I could just lob a pass up and it would LOB. It didn't matter if it was a drag route to the TE [a route I love in Football] a deep post or a corner route. The opposite was true on bullet passes. My QBs will try to fire the ball in there. choosing the right kind of pass, along with having a QB who's accuracy you could trust to fire into tight coverage or not makes playing QB in this game a lot of fun to me. Nate Montana and Andrew Luck feel very different to me.

I would like to agree, because I see where you are coming from, but my problem with Game Planning in NCAA is that it isn't anything like game planning. Many of the categories within NCAA's gameplanning aren't "Game Plan" type things, but team personality sort of things... a mentality you would instill in training camp and expect to be carried through the season.

See, I agree with you. I just look at the game plan feature like accelerated clock. I see it as a feature for a video game to help recreate what happens in real life. I see it as a way to have my players play the way I want them to. All game long I have them use conservative catching and conservative ball control instead of trying to break tackles. All game long I have my defenders go for the pick over the swat and conservative QB containment. it's those key situations where I want ym team to hold thier blocks a little longer or be more aggressive on screen passes or counter runs.

I like the idea of having control over your teams personality, but it's not something you can change on a play-to-play or even game-to-game basis. Do you think Mike Singletary takes Takeo Spikes aside and says "I want you to play less intense for this game."

Again, I look at it more like "We need to force a turnover here, go for the strip!" This is very realistic. You see and hear about teams making these little changes all the time. Special teams acting differently at the end of a game and so on.

IGN was referring to the ball bouncing off players and on the ground. I agree, it's a bit ridiculous in both games. If you're talking about pass trajectory, however, it's improved from the '10 versions of both games, but far better in Madden.

I was refering to just that. In NCAA and madden the ball bounces off of players nad gets "stuck" on them. However, in the Madden demo it has been happening a lot to me. In NCAA it happens, but not nearly as often or for as long as it does in Madden. In NCAA it tends to get un-stuck faster. The most noticeable part of it is when you swat the ball and it doesn't fall to the ground but keeps poping up in the air over and over again like a volly ball.

For the record, I don't fault anyone for feeling NCAA 11 is better. I think I prefer NCAA 11 to a certain degree myself, I just can't see someone hating Madden and loving NCAA, and I've seen lots of posts to that effect in the impressions thread.

I believe many of them are overreactions; people accustom to hating Madden, people who are somewhat disappointed it's not quite as polished as NCAA, etc.., but I'm sure there are those who believe firmly that Madden is crap and NCAA is outstanding, and I'm trying to figure out why.

I agree. In reality though, I was impressed by NCAA11 and not impressed by Madden. Let's say that the two games have a lot of things in common, however I can't list much of anything that I like more about Madden compared to the things I like more about NCAA. keep in mind, i don't care about College football. I love NFL football. I think that if the two games WERE just the same I would trade NCAA in to get Madden, but they aren't.

[RGiles36]

Re: Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

I too have been asking myself this question AJ. I can't wrap my head around it.

I finally picked up NCAA 11 and while it's a decent game, I'm far from uber-impressed with it. I should've grabbed Red Dead Redemption LOL.

I mean, I won't exaggerate and say that Madden is light years better. But I do think it'll prove to be a better tuned game.

Val, I disagree about the presentation. The first thing I noticed about NCAA was that there was no variety in the pre-play camera shots. Same tired angle every single time. Madden's presentation isn't much better (sigh) but it's more broadcast in my opinion. Madden just feels more alive to me.

Off topic: is there a way to turn off the auto coach-cam in NCAA? I find this to be annoying.

[ryan36]

Re: Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

I too have been asking myself this question AJ. I can't wrap my head around it.

I finally picked up NCAA 11 and while it's a decent game, I'm far from uber-impressed with it. I should've grabbed Red Dead Redemption LOL.

I mean, I won't exaggerate and say that Madden is light years better. But I do think it'll prove to be a better tuned game.

Val, I disagree about the presentation. The first thing I noticed about NCAA was that there was no variety in the pre-play camera shots. Same tired angle every single time. Madden's presentation isn't much better (sigh) but it's more broadcast in my opinion. Madden just feels more alive to me.

Off topic: is there a way to turn off the auto coach-cam in NCAA? I find this to be annoying.

holy crap, I agree with two big time Madden players? LOL, I played NCAA for half a day. Blogged about returning it LOL. I have always liked Madden more. I know that Madden was a big jump last year, and loved it. This year NCAA took last year's jump. So if you think of NCAA as a year behind Madden, and remember how you felt about Madden last year, this is what I think is creating the "NCAA rules" theme. If Madden had those progression issues NCAA has, Ian would be called names, and someone would be offering to remove his tires and windshield from whatever he drives. Madden simply is a lightning rod.