Everything has compliments

[LBzrule]

OK, we've played many of us have our likes and dislikes. But one thing I would really like EA to do and I know they are reading is to really just whatever you do/add to the game, be sure that the compliment to that thing is also there for balance. Let me just give a few examples.

I get it. Having the ability to branch out of any tackle is great to have. Users have been clamoring for that. And EA sorta did that. Great job on that. However, the idea is incomplete. You cannot give people the ability and possibility to branch out of any tackle without also giving them the possibility and ability to ADD ON at any time to any tackle defensively. It just makes for an unbalanced affair and you'll have guys breaking tackles that they shouldn't break. So on the one hand I say, good job, on the other, I shake my head and just look at my ceiling.

OK here is another one, we all clamored for improved run blocking. Thank you. We wanted it we got it. Ahhh, but run blocking also has its compliment, fronts and run fits on defense, which we did not get. So what happens is you have online games where guys have 7 carries for over 100 yards ala ESPN nfl 2k4.

Press coverage, this needed addressing and you made it a big risk/reward. I have no problem with this. NFL teams do not press cover as much as players who play madden, but that's another debate. Risk reward. No problem, now to play off coverage however, I need the ability to shade corners so I don't automatically give up routes. Like any defensive coordinator, I should know what I want to give up and should be able to try to funnel things to certain players. Sometimes it doesn't work as planned but that's what you try to do. But I do not have the tools in this game to do that.


Draw Plays are awesome now. They finally work. But why for the life of me if I have my defense set up and I am looking for the draw instead of pass that the linebackers WAIT to hit the window. They do this against the draw as well as the run. Why are they waiting to hit the window?

Lastly and my biggest disappointment with Madden 11. How is it possible for you guys to have Online Tuning Sets in NCAA 11 and not have them in Madden? How is that even possible?

[BezO]

Re: Everything has compliments

OK, we've played many of us have our likes and dislikes. But one thing I would really like EA to do and I know they are reading is to really just whatever you do/add to the game, be sure that the compliment to that thing is also there for balance. Let me just give a few examples.

!!!!!!!

I get it. Having the ability to branch out of any tackle is great to have. Users have been clamoring for that. And EA sorta did that. Great job on that. However, the idea is incomplete. You cannot give people the ability and possibility to branch out of any tackle without also giving them the possibility and ability to ADD ON at any time to any tackle defensively. It just makes for an unbalanced affair and you'll have guys breaking tackles that they shouldn't break. So on the one hand I say, good job, on the other, I shake my head and just look at my ceiling.

OK here is another one, we all clamored for improved run blocking. Thank you. We wanted it we got it. Ahhh, but run blocking also has its compliment, fronts and run fits on defense, which we did not get. So what happens is you have online games where guys have 7 carries for over 100 yards ala ESPN nfl 2k4.

Press coverage, this needed addressing and you made it a big risk/reward. I have no problem with this. NFL teams do not press cover as much as players who play madden, but that's another debate. Risk reward. No problem, now to play off coverage however, I need the ability to shade corners so I don't automatically give up routes. Like any defensive coordinator, I should know what I want to give up and should be able to try to funnel things to certain players. Sometimes it doesn't work as planned but that's what you try to do. But I do not have the tools in this game to do that.


Draw Plays are awesome now. They finally work. But why for the life of me if I have my defense set up and I am looking for the draw instead of pass that the linebackers WAIT to hit the window. They do this against the draw as well as the run. Why are they waiting to hit the window?

Sustained!!!!

And note that it's always the defense that gets ignored. EA, you can't call your game a simulation if we can only play one side of the ball. I see defense on Sundays.

Do we even get into speacial teams in this thread. With the exception of changing the kick meter every year, I can't remember anything done on special teams.

Does catering to the casual fan me we'll never see defensive improvements. Do all casual fans want to put up 60 points/game?

How long before EA alienates it's sim fans?

[PGaither84]

Re: Everything has compliments

First off, I agree in full LBz. Great read and signed.

Secondly, I just wanted to add that these things LBz mentioned lead to an offensively unbalanced game for both user and computer games. Don't get me wrong, LBz and I played a great game that only had a FG after one half of play and ended with a TD in over time to Michael Crabtree [because I got to admit, I'm pretty much the man j/k] Games can be defensive struggles. However, that requires both players to play in a sim fashion, and both players still end up having to put up with the offensive imbalance along the way as they both yell into the mic at their defense.

Thirdly, and finally, I thought I would add to this list that the same can be said of presentation as well. You give us Cut scenes, but only one or two of each kind, so we see the same ones every game. Not every other game, every game. You gave us pre-game story line for Chris Collinsworh, but only QBs and no other kind of pre-game match ups or anything. If there wasn't a QB story line, we get the exact same line every game there isn't a pre-generated one. You promised us for years you had fixed sideline awareness, and the year you add in the catch debugging tool and make sideline awareness finally work, players are making sideline grabs with space between then and the sideline hash marks and near the middle of he end zone. The animations look nice, but are not tuned properly. I guess I'll accept this over another broken year, but here is hoping you "get it right" next year. You give us Gus Johnson and show us it was more than just Tom Hammond being dull, but you show us your "beyond broadcast" is beyond broken. Long strips of dead air, vast inconsistencies in emotion [HE'S GOING DEEP!!! tackled at the 5.] If Madden 11 were a TV broadcast, I don't know how any station would keep them on the air. in the long run though, The Watcher could tell you even more and tel you better than I could.

In the short run, Madden 11 is by far and away the best next gen Madden making Madden 10 obsolete in my eyes. While it is still missing a lot of in-game game play features, it may be the best overall playing madden I have played yet. The run blocking alone makes a world of difference. If Ihad to trade away the pre-snap options and controls of next gen for the slower game speed, catch debugging tool, authentic assignments for run blocking, timing routes between the QB and his receivers, etc, I would. However, I shouldn't have to. Last gen Madden made great strides in game play. This next gen team has made great strides as well. I don't know why you haven't yet gone back and stolen alot of the good work last gen has done, that a great many of us are clamoring for and work those things back into the game, but I also don't understand why you do a lot of the things you do or don't do.

[huskerwr38]

Re: Everything has compliments

OK, we've played many of us have our likes and dislikes. But one thing I would really like EA to do and I know they are reading is to really just whatever you do/add to the game, be sure that the compliment to that thing is also there for balance. Let me just give a few examples.

I get it. Having the ability to branch out of any tackle is great to have. Users have been clamoring for that. And EA sorta did that. Great job on that. However, the idea is incomplete. You cannot give people the ability and possibility to branch out of any tackle without also giving them the possibility and ability to ADD ON at any time to any tackle defensively. It just makes for an unbalanced affair and you'll have guys breaking tackles that they shouldn't break. So on the one hand I say, good job, on the other, I shake my head and just look at my ceiling.

This is what pretty much keeps me from playing this game. The tackling is an eyesore and I just can't stand watching one guy tackle the ball carrier while 5 other guys just fall around around then he happens to break out of the tackle. It's so unrealistic, it's a gamebreaker for me. I don't understand how people can put up with that.

Realistic tackles needs to be top 3 priority for next year.

OK here is another one, we all clamored for improved run blocking. Thank you. We wanted it we got it. Ahhh, but run blocking also has its compliment, fronts and run fits on defense, which we did not get. So what happens is you have online games where guys have 7 carries for over 100 yards ala ESPN nfl 2k4.

Press coverage, this needed addressing and you made it a big risk/reward. I have no problem with this. NFL teams do not press cover as much as players who play madden, but that's another debate. Risk reward. No problem, now to play off coverage however, I need the ability to shade corners so I don't automatically give up routes. Like any defensive coordinator, I should know what I want to give up and should be able to try to funnel things to certain players. Sometimes it doesn't work as planned but that's what you try to do. But I do not have the tools in this game to do that.


Draw Plays are awesome now. They finally work. But why for the life of me if I have my defense set up and I am looking for the draw instead of pass that the linebackers WAIT to hit the window. They do this against the draw as well as the run. Why are they waiting to hit the window?

Lastly and my biggest disappointment with Madden 11. How is it possible for you guys to have Online Tuning Sets in NCAA 11 and not have them in Madden? How is that even possible?

NCAA team has surpassed the Madden team in my eyes. I feel that they have more passion for football, better ideas, and they implement those ideas better into the game.

[rooney8]

Re: Everything has compliments

I agree. The run blocking is a great improvement but because they didn't do anything on defense it actually makes the game worse overall to me but I think the game is exactly how EA want it. They confuse us by saying they want to make a sim football game but what else are they going to say in blogs and interviews pretty much only read by sim fans. They are trying to sell the game not win an honesty award.
As for why Ncaa has tuner sets and not Madden. Nhl11 is putting in physics, Fifa11 rebuilt Career Mode. Madden is just behind all the rest unfortunately.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Everything has compliments

Great post LBZrule

Im so happy I play offline only at this time.

I was able with the slider tackle to remedy the crazy broken tackles. Both where a player would break through a entire pile of defenders, and a high percentage of the broken tackles where the defender was tackling the player from behind.

I have not played online, but you mean to tell me you can not have unranked games online where you can set your sliders?

If this is true man that it tough. Can sliders be set for online franchise?

[parrothead]

Re: Everything has compliments

Are the guys at EA aware that people have these complaints? If so, are they just keeping quiet and choosing not to respond. What of these flaws can be fixed via patch? I doubt the tackling can even be addressed, but maybe the sideline catches, LB aggresiveness, and the run defense can be patched. This would be a great time for some interaction, and temper soothing.

[BezO]

Re: Everything has compliments

I didn't know how big the Madden team was until I checked the credits. PG, if you hadn't noticed already, we're in there, at the end, after game testers, key grips, janitors & mailmen, but we're in there.

With so many engineers, I can't understand why they take these baby steps every year. I was under the impression there were these 7-10 guys busting their *** to do what they could do in a cycle. There's 2-3X that amount listed in the credits.

Why are we always waiting for the year of this and the year of that? The presentation year has come & gone with so much left to do. I think '11 was a gameplay, not many new features year. EA didn't say it was an offensive year, so do we have to wait for another gameplay year for them to address the defense? Will that come before the anticipated franchise year?

I've seen this issue blamed on everything from the 1-year cycle to the executives. Who knows what it is, but I'm starting to wonder if my bashers were right. Am I, the sim fan, wasting my time suggesting all these gameplay enhancements/additions? In the words of Bob Marley, "I don't want to wait in vain for your love."

[parrothead]

Re: Everything has compliments

I hate to see you guys so disenchanted. Heck I search the boards and just read ya'lls posts. If you guys feel like your voices and heard what chance does the rest of the community have?

[rooney8]

Re: Everything has compliments

I didn't know how big the Madden team was until I checked the credits. PG, if you hadn't noticed already, we're in there, at the end, after game testers, key grips, janitors & mailmen, but we're in there.

With so many engineers, I can't understand why they take these baby steps every year. I was under the impression there were these 7-10 guys busting their *** to do what they could do in a cycle. There's 2-3X that amount listed in the credits.

Why are we always waiting for the year of this and the year of that? The presentation year has come & gone with so much left to do. I think '11 was a gameplay, not many new features year. EA didn't say it was an offensive year, so do we have to wait for another gameplay year for them to address the defense? Will that come before the anticipated franchise year?

I've seen this issue blamed on everything from the 1-year cycle to the executives. Who knows what it is, but I'm starting to wonder if my bashers were right. Am I, the sim fan, wasting my time suggesting all these gameplay enhancements/additions? In the words of Bob Marley, "I don't want to wait in vain for your love."

Yes! This is what I have started to realise. I thought Ea were trying to make a realistic sim football game but there not. They didn't try to make a balanced football game and accidently it turned out offensively overpowered. That's what they tried to do and succeeded so saying they need to compliment the running game with better run defense sounds great to me but it's not the game they are trying to build.

[CreatineKasey]

Re: Everything has compliments

In some ways we could say we'd like the game developed the way Blizzard makes their RTS games. We'd like to see a robust balance for each tactic used in the game. The difficult part of it with Madden is that we're simulating a real life sport. Still, we should be able to have basic soft and hard counters to strategies in the game.

I do think they have a fairly robust counter system, but Lbz brings to light how it gets out of whack with new features. Yeah, the new run blocking is sure slick, but it can be insanely hard to account for all your gaps with the tools we're given on the strategy pad in 4 seconds.

Special teams are definitely the forgotten aspect of EA football. There's so much about it that doesn't resemble real life situations. We still don't have a balanced punt block system. We still don't have a great kicking system. For some reason, EA defaults to punt block zone as the standard punt return formation. That's asinine.

I do think EA's football games could benefit from a bit of a metagame within each game also. Factors such as momentum, fatigue, and individual or unit play performances could change given the outcome of events within each particular game. This is a common mechanism in strategy games. Do you fast tech to siege tanks and risk being rushed, or do you go for a balanced build but risk being rolled mid game by hydralisks? That same mindset could be applied: do you begin the game all guns blazing, going for it on 4th and short and blitzing the crap out of your opponent? If it works, you could hold a big lead and the momentum. If not, your players' confidence could suffer and you yourself could get rolled early.

Robust is a word I like to throw around when it comes to strategies and games. It'd be a great word for EA to focus on when making gameplay balance. All angles should be at least thought of or addressed.

[REDRZA]

Re: Everything has compliments

OK, we've played many of us have our likes and dislikes. But one thing I would really like EA to do and I know they are reading is to really just whatever you do/add to the game, be sure that the compliment to that thing is also there for balance. Let me just give a few examples.

I get it. Having the ability to branch out of any tackle is great to have. Users have been clamoring for that. And EA sorta did that. Great job on that. However, the idea is incomplete. You cannot give people the ability and possibility to branch out of any tackle without also giving them the possibility and ability to ADD ON at any time to any tackle defensively. It just makes for an unbalanced affair and you'll have guys breaking tackles that they shouldn't break. So on the one hand I say, good job, on the other, I shake my head and just look at my ceiling.

OK here is another one, we all clamored for improved run blocking. Thank you. We wanted it we got it. Ahhh, but run blocking also has its compliment, fronts and run fits on defense, which we did not get. So what happens is you have online games where guys have 7 carries for over 100 yards ala ESPN nfl 2k4.

Press coverage, this needed addressing and you made it a big risk/reward. I have no problem with this. NFL teams do not press cover as much as players who play madden, but that's another debate. Risk reward. No problem, now to play off coverage however, I need the ability to shade corners so I don't automatically give up routes. Like any defensive coordinator, I should know what I want to give up and should be able to try to funnel things to certain players. Sometimes it doesn't work as planned but that's what you try to do. But I do not have the tools in this game to do that.


Draw Plays are awesome now. They finally work. But why for the life of me if I have my defense set up and I am looking for the draw instead of pass that the linebackers WAIT to hit the window. They do this against the draw as well as the run. Why are they waiting to hit the window?

Lastly and my biggest disappointment with Madden 11. How is it possible for you guys to have Online Tuning Sets in NCAA 11 and not have them in Madden? How is that even possible?

Thats why if you read one of my other posts recently, all these things you mention LBz, are due to the fact that in this game, the way its programmed, is that there are always "2 player animations" that "trigger" based on a set proximity that surrounds each player.

What I'm saying is, the players on field in Madden aren't really individuals who react individually to other players or the environment. All action on screen is pre determined, scripted, canned animations that trigger when 2 players get in that set parameter of proximity.

You can see it in every area of the game from OL/DL interactions, to suction blocking, to WR/DB play, to tackling. The only way this game will ever get better, smarter, more real is when they get rid of those canned animations that actually fake action on screen, and make each individual player react with other players and the environment on their own, with real physics. I wasn't a huge fan of 2K, but i think this is the fundamental reason that 2K's tackling was far better than what Madden has ever shown. Those players were individuals, not 2 man animations that play out.

The least they can do is start with tackling, to allow each individual player to "add on" or "clean up" after initial tackles are started. Also, why is there only a dive button, and hit stick? How about giving us the ability to initiate a true wrap tackle?

Maybey if they implement the real time physics engine that NHL and Elite are using this year will change things. Its just really sad to realize that Tiburon is always behind even other EA studios, like EA Canada, who is doing great things with Fifa and NHL Hockey.

[REDRZA]

Re: Everything has compliments

In some ways we could say we'd like the game developed the way Blizzard makes their RTS games. We'd like to see a robust balance for each tactic used in the game. The difficult part of it with Madden is that we're simulating a real life sport. Still, we should be able to have basic soft and hard counters to strategies in the game.

I do think they have a fairly robust counter system, but Lbz brings to light how it gets out of whack with new features. Yeah, the new run blocking is sure slick, but it can be insanely hard to account for all your gaps with the tools we're given on the strategy pad in 4 seconds.

Special teams are definitely the forgotten aspect of EA football. There's so much about it that doesn't resemble real life situations. We still don't have a balanced punt block system. We still don't have a great kicking system. For some reason, EA defaults to punt block zone as the standard punt return formation. That's asinine.

I do think EA's football games could benefit from a bit of a metagame within each game also. Factors such as momentum, fatigue, and individual or unit play performances could change given the outcome of events within each particular game. This is a common mechanism in strategy games. Do you fast tech to siege tanks and risk being rushed, or do you go for a balanced build but risk being rolled mid game by hydralisks? That same mindset could be applied: do you begin the game all guns blazing, going for it on 4th and short and blitzing the crap out of your opponent? If it works, you could hold a big lead and the momentum. If not, your players' confidence could suffer and you yourself could get rolled early.

Robust is a word I like to throw around when it comes to strategies and games. It'd be a great word for EA to focus on when making gameplay balance. All angles should be at least thought of or addressed.

Eaxactly, they ALWAYS have a hard time finding that delicate balance between the offense and defense. Thats why i have always said, be careful what you wish for from Tiburon, you just might get it! Meaning, they improve run blocking, it becomes too effective. They want to eliminate nono's? Instead of fixing OL pass blocking and the way RB's block in the pass game, they stupidly make LB's take "random" blitz angles so you get NO pressure.

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: Everything has compliments

Nice stuff.

Like the game alot, but the one thig that I notice which is a eye sore, is all of the falling down!

[LBzrule]

Re: Everything has compliments

Just played this one guy online, and there was this one play where the HB does a delay and the defender manned up on him never responded. I had Ed Reed manned up on him once and Reed did not respond to the delay route. I had a linebacker manned up and he never responded to the delay route. So Shonn Green had 13 catches for almost 200 yards. It's BS like this that really makes you not want to play the game. Even when I manually covered it, he would catch it and either break the tackle or just easily twitch back inside. yeah I'm not the greatest on the stick, but I'm decent. Needless to say I still won due to conced defeat 51-30, but giving up 30 points most of it to one freaking play, is not my idea of a fun experience.

The defensive playbooks need a complete overhaul as well. The way defense is called needs to be completely redone. Assignments ect. Unfortunately, none of this will happen.