Some of the defense is play calling, some is Bad A.I.

[LBzrule]

EA don't overreact to the complaints about bad defense. First find out what plays are being called and what offensive play was called against it. I know we all have some pre-conceived notions of what should do what, but that's not necessarily the case. Let me give an example. I played a friends list player last night and we had a pretty damn good game. At the end he needed 72 yards with 2 seconds on the clock. I called a Nickel Cover 3 with the Safeties rotating over the top. I think he called 4 verts. Sydney Rice got matched up on Dwan Landry deep and caught the ball. Now I switched over to defend and when I hit the button I didn't get any response (that should be fixed). Rice caught it at the 4 and Landry was all on his back and slid off and missed the tackle and Rice runs it in for the TD.

Now at first I was like this is some BS man LOL. But after thinking about it I said, the only thing I can be mad about here is the lack of response from my defensive player. Even if he responded it should NOT be 100% that I automatically defend the pass. Then I said maybe I should have called cover 2 man in this situation instead and Rice would have been bracketed by the CB and the Safety and I would have won the game? So play calling is huge in a lot of situations. That is to be applauded. I like that. Good job. Now if you can just fix the responsiveness and tone down the auto tackle break that happens with every player even QB's, I think we might be ok.

[Palo20]

Re: Some of the defense is play calling, some is Bad A.I.

1. I've noticed the same thing on guys I switch to, they almost just stop their momentum and have to re-gather it again, forcing huge separation.

2. I've also noticed Safeties just react really late to WRs in their zone and when they react they still take "gather" steps and this forces huge separation (looks like locomotion only applies to the defense sometimes.)

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: Some of the defense is play calling, some is Bad A.I.

I would agree.

I see the problem more with robber coverage safeties.

Like I would have a robber safety right on a slot WR and he wont break on the WR running at him.

The play call was correct, but the responsiveness was not there.

I dont have much of an issue with user control respoonsiveness..nor do I have a issue with a guy getting beat, because he isnt physically capable of covering a guy: A CB with a 69 man coverage rating, matched up with a reciever with a 75 route running, for example.


I find the deep zones ot okay for the most part.

[Deltron]

Re: Some of the defense is play calling, some is Bad A.I.

I agree. I hope EA doesn't overreact to the criticism and bring back super-human abilities for DBs and LBs.

I like the fact that your defensive calls have to be very pinpoint. And I like that they've toned down AI coverage to the point that you're probably better off switching and making plays. I think that brings in more elements of skill to the game.

I do hope they address the tackling issues and I hope they take a close look at individual zone assignments vs. various routes to identify weaknesses.

The initial reaction to this game very much reminds me of when NFL 2k4 hit the shelves. Inititially it was an offensive track meet every single game; however, evenutally players adjusted their schemes and playcalling, and found ways of really shutting down the offense.

By the end of the 2k4 cycle I was shutting down top Xbox live players, which would have never been likely or conceivable at the outset.

[jmurphy31]

Re: Some of the defense is play calling, some is Bad A.I.

LBZ. I agree with what your saying but what do you personally think about slants, crossing patterns, or anything over the middle is there defenses to defend this or is this poor design. I know I can put my lb in a hook zone but the slot usually catches bit before or after the coverage area and man isn't great either

[ch46647]

Re: Some of the defense is play calling, some is Bad A.I.

Slants and drag routes, run by people who know how to do them, are absolutely unstoppable in this game. The reaction time needs to be turned WAY up on defense. Also, if you go to practice mode and run a bunch of drags you will see defenders need to take an extra step or two before they start following the receiver. (This is probably an error in the locomotion system) This created HUGE seperation from WR and DB.

If you play someone on-line that is good. EVERYTHING you do is predicated around stopping the slant and drag routes. This leaves the deep ball, the running game, and in many cases the RB out of the backfield completely defenseless. The entire next patch needs to be making the pass defense better, MUCH BETTER. Also, I would like to see the breaking tackles toned WAY down as well. 80% of the tackling animations that play on a continuous basis has the ball carrier falling 2-3 yards forward as well. This needs to stop.....

[jyoung]

Re: Some of the defense is play calling, some is Bad A.I.

Slants and drag routes, run by people who know how to do them, are absolutely unstoppable in this game. The reaction time needs to be turned WAY up on defense. Also, if you go to practice mode and run a bunch of drags you will see defenders need to take an extra step or two before they start following the receiver. (This is probably an error in the locomotion system) This created HUGE seperation from WR and DB.

If you play someone on-line that is good. EVERYTHING you do is predicated around stopping the slant and drag routes. This leaves the deep ball, the running game, and in many cases the RB out of the backfield completely defenseless. The entire next patch needs to be making the pass defense better, MUCH BETTER. Also, I would like to see the breaking tackles toned WAY down as well. 80% of the tackling animations that play on a continuous basis has the ball carrier falling 2-3 yards forward as well. This needs to stop.....

100% agreed.

Even against the best CBs in the game, basic routes such as drags and slants will be open all game long by a good 5-10 yards if the WR has decent acceleration and release.

Meanwhile, your defenders playing hook zones in the middle of the field just stand still and watch dumbfounded as the play develops right in front of them.

[LBzrule]

Re: Some of the defense is play calling, some is Bad A.I.

The slants and drags IMO is really an issue of not adding the complements into the game. Those routes would not be a problem if you could shade your coverage. But you are left to the A.I and it's decision making for the CB.

But as it stands I actually run plays that I never thought I would run and I'm doing decent against them. I've been running some cover 1 (no press) Robber and have had success against slants. Drags, are a different animal. I don't necessarily have a problem with people throwing them, I have a problem with the breaking of tackles when they have been completed AND sometimes your CB pivots AWAY from the WR at the start of the play and can never recover thus leaving the WR is wide open on the other side of the field because somehow the WR knows how to navigate through traffic, but your CB does not. And worse of all, if it is an auto-motion drag, unless you make assignments in the D game plan menu your CB and Safety or whoever the defender is inside the CB that has man coverage, they will switch and the defender that switches always stalls and gets confused leaving the drag wide open.

[raguel]

Re: Some of the defense is play calling, some is Bad A.I.

sometimes your CB pivots AWAY from the WR at the start of the play

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you saying that the cb just takes a step away from the receiver or does the "omg I just got burnt" turn around animation? I don't think I've seen the former but I've seen the latter way too much.

I've also seen defenders while in space near a receiver, take a step away from the receiver when the ball is thrown in his direction, and because of that the defender is unable to make a play/tackle.

[LBzrule]

Re: Some of the defense is play calling, some is Bad A.I.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you saying that the cb just takes a step away from the receiver or does the "omg I just got burnt" turn around animation? I don't think I've seen the former but I've seen the latter way too much.

I've also seen defenders while in space near a receiver, take a step away from the receiver when the ball is thrown in his direction, and because of that the defender is unable to make a play/tackle.

Let's say you have a WR lined up on the right side of the screen running a drag left and a CB is man up on him. On the snap the WR goes inside left on the drag. The CB pivots outside right And he can never recover. This is particularly true on auto motion drags out of certain formations. That is a locomotion problem. But I don't want them to just auto have the CB take away the route because they don't know how to fix it.

[ch46647]

Re: Some of the defense is play calling, some is Bad A.I.

The fact that you have to devote all your defensive rescources to defend slants and drags is what makes this game unplayable. Just wait until somebody lines up 4 wide every game and sends everyone on routes over the middle. Not only does almost every WR get open by atleast 5 yards, but it also jams up your LB covering the RB most of the time and it makes the RB wide open as well.

I really think this game has the possiblity to be very playable. They need to completely dedicate this patch to the defensive side of the ball tough. LBZ I will have to respectfully disagree that many of the problems are with defensive play calling. I am sure some people call bad plays but this is an AI problem through and through. I play with the Ravens like yourself, I know our corners are bad but I even formation sub safeties into one or more of the LB positions in almost every pass defense to help protect the middle of the field. Still nothing works if you play people who run heavy over the middle pass offenses.

[ch46647]

Re: Some of the defense is play calling, some is Bad A.I.

The fact that DB's cant keep up with WR's over the middle makes playing man to man obsolete. But the zone defense needs a ton of work as well. Defensive players drop in their zones and just stand there while WR's run right in front of them. They need to come up and "defend" people coming through their zone until they can pass them off to the next guy!

Edit: For whatever reason zone defenses in this game play routes outside the hashes better then they do over the middle of the field. Even if I pre-play "Zones to middle" that seems to do nothing....

[jyoung]

Re: Some of the defense is play calling, some is Bad A.I.

Yeah the new "locomotion" animations are the culprit behind drags and slants being so open this year.

Your CB will often take a "false step" in the opposite direction at the beginning of the play, and from that point on the defender has no chance of catching up to the WR, who usually gets 5 - 10 yards out in front of the CB within a matter of seconds.

[s38s38s]

Re: Some of the defense is play calling, some is Bad A.I.

LB, as far as the last play of the game I'd never go Cover 3 zone, especially with Rice, Berrian, and Harvin. It would most likely be Quarters-Man Cover 3 in that situation for me.
On topic, the routes that have given me the most trouble have been the TE slant/post/drag rotation, MLB's and OLB's in the hook zones (yellow ones) begin 3-5 yards off the LOS, then by the time the QB finishes his drop they're 13-15 yards off the LOS, why EA? If you're in the zones you play players in your zone, why have them auto re-treat to leave underneath routes open for easy gains? Even worse is the safeties not playing the DEEPEST man, they just fade, fade, and fade further back even when all the routes are short, again EA why? Those two points are the biggest reasons the middle of the field in zones are pretty easy to complete passes, because if you manually control a LB to take away the underneathe the FS/SS bail to deep and leave the post. Then if you switch to user a S, the LB's bail to deep and you give up the underneath routes.

Now don't confuse this with I expect to guard all things via zone but, the zone depths are two deep when a drag (1 yard route) is pretty much a guaranteed 5+ yards on most given plays vs zones. Meanwhile the TE post is about 12+. I mean I wouldn't mind if in hook zones my MLB played deeper but why are my OLB's and nickels 10-15 yards off the LOS when players in their zones are all running shallow routes?

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: Some of the defense is play calling, some is Bad A.I.

Let's say you have a WR lined up on the right side of the screen running a drag left and a CB is man up on him. On the snap the WR goes inside left on the drag. The CB pivots outside right And he can never recover. This is particularly true on auto motion drags out of certain formations. That is a locomotion problem. But I don't want them to just auto have the CB take away the route because they don't know how to fix it.

Yeah..that is an annoyance..the CB gives up the inside almost before the snap.

The only time I even consider running press coverage, is with 2 deep safeties.