Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

[Jesus]

In response to various questions about players warping through one another in videos contrasting with the blogs and the principles of physics; which this game is supposed to be built on, Geoff Harrower replied:

" "Real Physics" is just a name given to all the work we've done to make the game more physical."

Ok let me get this straight.

-The "physics" engine isnt creating animations and more-so choosing animations

-The "physics" was only applied to 3 parts of the character's skeleton, the chest, shoulders and hips and not the limbs

So then tell me how is it possible to not have any canned animations when there are animations where two players interact, every animation is predetermined and non are being created?

And considering Mike Wang has gone on record to say "NBA 2k has used physics to determine animation selection for years now", How is this much different than what has been done before in this series and others "?

If this game does not do much different than what was been done before and there is no taxing, demanding technology under the hood whats holding the graphics and animations/ animation variety back?

[KyotoCarl]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

The physics in Elite 11, as I've understood it, is that the animation chosen is based on weight-speed-trajectory of the players interacting. It does, as stated, not utilise ragdoll physics or real-time phsyics ala Grand Theft Auto.

So, it's still animations, it's just that the animations played out are selected by a physics system which chooses the correct animation for the interaction.

[andrewdski]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

In response to various questions about players warping through one another in videos contrasting with the blogs and the principles of physics; which this game is supposed to be built on, Geoff Harrower replied:

" "Real Physics" is just a name given to all the work we've done to make the game more physical."

Do you have a link for this quote? Not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to read it in context.

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

Do you have a link for this quote? Not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to read it in context.

Was that from the stick thread about physics?

[Jesus]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

Do you have a link for this quote? Not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to read it in context.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...hysics-26.html

[rEAnimator]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

The physics in Elite 11, as I've understood it, is that the animation chosen is based on weight-speed-trajectory of the players interacting. It does, as stated, not utilise ragdoll physics or real-time phsyics ala Grand Theft Auto.

So, it's still animations, it's just that the animations played out are selected by a physics system which chooses the correct animation for the interaction.

The animations are selected based on the physics system, but they are also driven by the physics system as well. For example, blend weights between multiple animations and IK targets are driven by parameters coming from the physics and collision systems. As I've said before, the limbs of the players are not affected by physics except during steals, blocks and rebounds. And when I say physics, I mean the physical properties of the player, the results of the new player/player collision system (which is all physics based) and the ball physics system. All that stuff combined is referred to as the "Real Physics" engine.

[Jesus]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

The physics in Elite 11, as I've understood it, is that the animation chosen is based on weight-speed-trajectory of the players interacting. It does, as stated, not utilise ragdoll physics or real-time phsyics ala Grand Theft Auto.

So, it's still animations, it's just that the animations played out are selected by a physics system which chooses the correct animation for the interaction.

How is this any different than other games that determine that you are going to do a lay-up because you have not generated enough momentum to dunk, when two players collide the weaker/smaller one will bounce backwards or that smaller players get less dominating collision animations?

[Jano]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

So would I be correct on this rEAnimator, lets say a player has just beat his man from the middle of the floor and is heading towards the basket for a dunk. If the defender tries to go for the steal you guys want the defenders input to determine exactly how the offense responds. So lets say the defender is standing right next to the offensive player as he's about to jump in the air for the dunk.

If that defender reaches his hand out to knock the ball loose that's exactly what will happen, correct? He will just knock the ball loose, he won't grab it and then run the other way with it he'll just knock it loose. Now lets say that same defender is anticipating the dunk and instead of trying to knock it loose he lunges for the ball instead. If he times it correctly he will actually grab the ball instead of just knocking it out of his hands right?

Is that what will make the system "real time" because its responding based on exactly what that defender is doing?

[Jesus]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

So would I be correct on this rEAnimator, lets say a player has just beat his man from the middle of the floor and is heading towards the basket for a dunk. If the defender tries to go for the steal you guys want the defenders input to determine exactly how the offense responds. So lets say the defender is standing right next to the offensive player as he's about to jump in the air for the dunk.

If that defender reaches his hand out to knock the ball loose that's exactly what will happen, correct? He will just knock the ball loose, he won't grab it and then run the other way with it he'll just knock it loose. Now lets say that same defender is anticipating the dunk and instead of trying to knock it loose he lunges for the ball instead. If he times it correctly he will actually grab the ball instead of just knocking it out of his hands right?

Is that what will make the system "real time" because its responding based on exactly what that defender is doing?

how do you determine whether to snatch the ball out vs poke the ball loose without canned contextual animations?

[Jano]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

The contextual animations doesn't have to be canned the devs could make it where lunges happen with the player is moving and then hits the steal button. And swipes could happen when you are standing still and you hit the steal button.

Or another way could be swipes happen you press the steal button without any left stick movement. While lunges are triggered due to left stick movement and the steal button.

Lol! you know what that still canned when I think about but at least the defender is still choosing to do it himself.

[JerseySuave4]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

i must be missing something then because i dont see physics when Dwayne Wade drives to the hoop, goes up for a dunk, hits a guy and the guy he hits goes flying straight back 5 feet while Wade is not affected at all.

[mrprice33]

That's something I asked about in the physics thread. If plays like that happen regularly it defeats the whole purpose of rtp.

i must be missing something then because i dont see physics when Dwayne Wade drives to the hoop, goes up for a dunk, hits a guy and the guy he hits goes flying straight back 5 feet while Wade is not affected at all.

Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk.

[Jesus]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

The animations are selected based on the physics system, but they are also driven by the physics system as well. For example, blend weights between multiple animations and IK targets are driven by parameters coming from the physics and collision systems. As I've said before, the limbs of the players are not affected by physics except during steals, blocks and rebounds. And when I say physics, I mean the physical properties of the player, the results of the new player/player collision system (which is all physics based) and the ball physics system. All that stuff combined is referred to as the "Real Physics" engine.

OK, if I understand Inverse Kinematics correctly it modifies jointed objects to move in a inverse (which is more natural) manner.

How is that possible if the joints the hips, waist and chest are nearest to (arm and leg joints) are not effected by the real time physics?

In addition to the question above, can you answer my first question from my previous post: how is it possible to not have any canned animations when there are animations where two players interact, every animation is predetermined and non are being created?

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

OK, if I understand Inverse Kinematics correctly it moves modifies jointed objects to move in a inverse (which is more natural) manner.

How is that possible if the joints the hips, waist and chest are nearest to ( arm and leg joints) are not effected by the real time physics?

In addition to the question above, can you answer my first question from my previous post: how is it possible to not have any canned animations when there are animations where two players interact, every animation is predetermined and non are being created?

You have inverse and you have forward kinematics. The difference is if you know your end state or your initial state. Inverse kinematics means that you know the end state (hand meeting the ball at a point in time). So you manipulate the limbs (elbow and/or shoulder) to make the hand hit the point you want. So, in this case, they take the physics of the ball (location, speed, etc..) and determine where they want to hands to meet the ball. Then they play an animation to jump and use IK to alter that animation on the arms to meet the ball at the time of the meeting. This has been done for years in many games - including the 2K titles actually. The key to IK is to limit the possible combinations to those that yield a physically possible solution based on what we know about the human body (the limits of the rotations based on bones and muscles).

Understand?

[Jesus]

Re: Real Time Physics just a general buzz-term for physicality?

The contextual animations doesn't have to be canned the devs could make it where lunges happen with the player is moving and then hits the steal button. And swipes could happen when you are standing still and you hit the steal button.

Or another way could be swipes happen you press the steal button without any left stick movement. While lunges are triggered due to left stick movement and the steal button.

In any event the ripping out of the ball would be a canned animation because it would be an animation that was chosen to happen. The only way it wouldnt be is if there was a dedicated command that only did that and allowed for an alternative.

For example, lets stick with the lunging steal for examples. If you make your player lunge and press the steal button and it initiates the ripping steal animation , how then would you lunge and merely poke the ball loose? You are restricted to the devilish " canned animation" that is so frowned upon. If you do not have the complete freedom to modify your movement within the animation then it is canned.