NBA Elite has the shooting WRONG, and here is WHY.

[Bornindamecca]

This is edited and paraphrased from a conversation between myself and Kazushige. Because of the format of copying and pasting, I'm not going to take the time to separate who said what, but we're in total agreement so it doesn't matter.

By bullet points--


On Skill Based Shooting
one of the biggest problems with skill based shooting is that shot selection is at least 50 percent of the equation.

you can have perfect timing and release your shot at the apex of your jump and still get a shot blocked or missed because it was ill advised from the start.

--------------
On Adjustments and Individual Player Skill
You bring up another issue
There are percentages of success in shooting that are not black and white, not ideal

For instance, if a defender is in front of you, you'll have to adjust the speed or release of your shot to compensate.

Highly skilled players can do this with only a minor hit on percentages
whereas skilled shooters who are not elite scorers can be taken right out of the game due to having to make that adjustment.
-----------------------
On Contact and Defense
not to mention certain shots are just sure misses.

in the middle of traffic and with two defenders collapsing.

That's another issue. If you can't plant your feet, you can't shoot the same kind of shot
and the "shot meter" should reflect that change.

off balance should be about adjusting to the angle of the shot.
if you lean left you should have to correct right.
and visa versa

I think the way you adjust your shot should affect your sweet spot as well. The sweet spot should be dependent on the type of shot. A derek fisher leaner should be waaay different than a set shot.
adjust
--------------------
It's Not a Black and White Issue
Saying someone is a good shooter from certain ranges is deceiving

it's like looking at regular season percentages to dictate post season percentages. depending on the scenario the sweet spot should change.
clutch should affect the sweet spot.

kobe vs. joe johnson should be two totally different stories in the clutch
and playoffs.

getting away from probabilities really gets away from NBA basketball. it might as well be bird v jordan streetball.

-------------END

I omitted all direct comparisons to 2k in compliance with TOS rules. Surpri

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: NBA Elite has the shooting WRONG, and here is WHY.

I still think that this is one of the single most misunderstood issues with the game.

rEAanimator has said repeatedly that defense, player ratings and degree of difficulty effects the "sweet spot".

Playing the demo has not led me to believe anything different.


I understand the point you are trying to make Born, but it just doesnt match up with my experience playing the demo.

Im going to have to respectfully disagree

P.S. I do agree with the point on intangibles, such as clutch situations, toughness, playing a part.

[JWiLL02]

Re: NBA Elite has the shooting WRONG, and here is WHY.

The whole idea that you can only hit shots at or around the top of your jump is flawed in itself. NBA players have the ability to hit shots on their way down, or with quick releases, some better than others. This is completely eliminated with the new system, not an accurate representation of NBA basketball at all.

[Lucky912]

Re: NBA Elite has the shooting WRONG, and here is WHY.

The whole idea that you can only hit shots at or around the top of your jump is flawed in itself. NBA players have the ability to hit shots on their way down, or with quick releases, some better than others. This is completely eliminated with the new system, not an accurate representation of NBA basketball at all.

I dont think it was eliminated with this new system. This new system actually makes it possible because you have the ability to release the shot early or late, whereas the old system forces you into a sig animation with an auto-release at the apex regardless of your timing. But, if you can only make a shot by releasing it at the apex then its not being used to its full potential.

[Rocboyz101]

Re: NBA Elite has the shooting WRONG, and here is WHY.

Not to mention holding the button longer should equal a short shot, not a long one.

[JWiLL02]

Re: NBA Elite has the shooting WRONG, and here is WHY.

I dont think it was eliminated with this new system. This new system actually makes it possible because you have the ability to release the shot early or late, whereas the old system forces you into a sig animation with an auto-release at the apex regardless of your timing. But, if you can only make a shot by releasing it at the apex then its not being used to its full potential.

Live 10 didn't have static release points, they were dynamic. If you release a shot early or late with the new system you'll always miss, long or short.

[fatleg3]

Re: NBA Elite has the shooting WRONG, and here is WHY.

This is edited and paraphrased from a conversation between myself and Kazushige. Because of the format of copying and pasting, I'm not going to take the time to separate who said what, but we're in total agreement so it doesn't matter.

By bullet points--


On Skill Based Shooting
one of the biggest problems with skill based shooting is that shot selection is at least 50 percent of the equation.

you can have perfect timing and release your shot at the apex of your jump and still get a shot blocked or missed because it was ill advised from the start.

--------------
On Adjustments and Individual Player Skill
You bring up another issue
There are percentages of success in shooting that are not black and white, not ideal

For instance, if a defender is in front of you, you'll have to adjust the speed or release of your shot to compensate.

Highly skilled players can do this with only a minor hit on percentages
whereas skilled shooters who are not elite scorers can be taken right out of the game due to having to make that adjustment.
-----------------------
On Contact and Defense
not to mention certain shots are just sure misses.

in the middle of traffic and with two defenders collapsing.

That's another issue. If you can't plant your feet, you can't shoot the same kind of shot
and the "shot meter" should reflect that change.

off balance should be about adjusting to the angle of the shot.
if you lean left you should have to correct right.
and visa versa

I think the way you adjust your shot should affect your sweet spot as well. The sweet spot should be dependent on the type of shot. A derek fisher leaner should be waaay different than a set shot.
adjust
--------------------
It's Not a Black and White Issue
Saying someone is a good shooter from certain ranges is deceiving

it's like looking at regular season percentages to dictate post season percentages. depending on the scenario the sweet spot should change.
clutch should affect the sweet spot.

kobe vs. joe johnson should be two totally different stories in the clutch
and playoffs.

getting away from probabilities really gets away from NBA basketball. it might as well be bird v jordan streetball.

-------------END

I omitted all direct comparisons to 2k in compliance with TOS rules. Surpri

I like some of the things that you have said but i think some of these things should be added to whats in elite now. Like with some shots or just flat out misses in the middle of traffic. With things like that the sweet spot should just be smaller making it almost impossible to hit some shots. Rea has said that the d, the players ratings and difficulty of the shot effects that and he has not bs us about anything yet so i have reason to believe that. Now does it effect it enough or makes it small enough to make it very tough to hit some of those shots maybe but that hopefully can be tuned and i wouldnt say ea got that wrong.

This is the first time ever where you just dont have to hold a button or move the stick in any direction for a certain amount of time.

There is not one game out there where if you lean left you have to adjust to the right and that goes back to the whole control argument. People are already turned off by how much you have to do on your own now, so just think about how much worse it would be to have to do that even though me myself would like it. Thats another thing i would say ea can work on instead of saying the whole thing is broke

[fatleg3]

Re: NBA Elite has the shooting WRONG, and here is WHY.

The whole idea that you can only hit shots at or around the top of your jump is flawed in itself. NBA players have the ability to hit shots on their way down, or with quick releases, some better than others. This is completely eliminated with the new system, not an accurate representation of NBA basketball at all.

Well if that is the case then every basketball game made is not an accurate representation on nba ball. All games have been to where you have to time your shot at the top of the jump

[fatleg3]

Re: NBA Elite has the shooting WRONG, and here is WHY.

Not to mention holding the button longer should equal a short shot, not a long one.

I dont know if you are right or wrong but I think what ea was getting at what this is a power up meter. The more you hold it the more power you will have behind your shot.

[JWiLL02]

Re: NBA Elite has the shooting WRONG, and here is WHY.

Well if that is the case then every basketball game made is not an accurate representation on nba ball. All games have been to where you have to time your shot at the top of the jump

Because that's the ideal time to release a shot, which makes sense.

My point is that players can still hit shots when released early or late, often in order to avoid a buzzer or defensive pressure. Obviously, the players ability should affect the probability of hitting these bad releases, which would be at far lower %s.

Never being able to hit a shot with an early or late release just isn't right.

[fatleg3]

Re: NBA Elite has the shooting WRONG, and here is WHY.

Because that's the ideal time to release a shot, which makes sense.

My point is that players can still hit shots when released early or late, often in order to avoid a buzzer or defensive pressure. Obviously, the players ability should affect the probability of hitting these bad releases, which would be at far lower %s.

Never being able to hit a shot with an early or late release just isn't right.

tru. i fell what you are saying.

But that does not bother me because any game i have played and if playing on higher difficulties i cant hit a shot if i released the button late or too early. Thats just one of those things that comes along with playing video gmes

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: NBA Elite has the shooting WRONG, and here is WHY.

Well if that is the case then every basketball game made is not an accurate representation on nba ball. All games have been to where you have to time your shot at the top of the jump

Its been done before. Not well but its been done.

2k7 had them and the quick releases were too easy to use. College Hoops had at least one because I recruited a guy who had two release points. With him it was cool because the quick release worked well enough to use under pressure but it wasn't over powered. Kobe seems to have them in 2k11. I don't know its weird. I cant tell yet.

[fatleg3]

Re: NBA Elite has the shooting WRONG, and here is WHY.

Its been done before. Not well but its been done.

2k7 had them and the quick releases were too easy to use. College Hoops had at least one because I recruited a guy who had two release points. With him it was cool because the quick release worked well enough to use under pressure but it wasn't over powered. Kobe seems to have them in 2k11. I don't know its weird. I cant tell yet.

hmm thats intresting. i didnt know that but yea that would be nice if a game could add that and make it work properly

[Flashstriker101]

Re: NBA Elite has the shooting WRONG, and here is WHY.

I dont know if you are right or wrong but I think what ea was getting at what this is a power up meter. The more you hold it the more power you will have behind your shot.

But thats not it. theres a jordan buzzer beater somewhere where he hit a shot in the finals he clutched the ball tighter then he usually does shooting not in form and releases the ball early yet it still goes in, that would never happen in nba elite why,..because its based off a hit or miss system, there should be a percentage of luck in every shot

[Flashstriker101]

Re: NBA Elite has the shooting WRONG, and here is WHY.

tru. i fell what you are saying.

But that does not bother me because any game i have played and if playing on higher difficulties i cant hit a shot if i released the button late or too early. Thats just one of those things that comes along with playing video gmes

In that OTHER GAME the animations were swift but you had to time the release with the animation i recall one where your guy actually flings up the ball in a backwards jordan style. THe ball can still go in even if you release early or late because of the physics in the game