EA I have an idea that might help stop glitch goals

[The Visualizer]

After playing over 100 EASHL games since the game released I have become all too familiar with this year's goto glitch goals. 90% of them have one thing in common: They all rely on shooting a wrist shot from the "windup" position to exploit the goalie AI..

I watch a ton of hockey and this motion that is used so often in the game is not really that common in the actual NHL for most players. My idea would be to eliminate the ability to shoot from this "windup" forehand position altogether. So if you were to flick the right stick up to attempt a shot it wouldn't do anything. I doubt this is feasible with a patch but if it is you could keep the windup motion in the game strictly for stickhandling purposes and just make an across the board increase to all player's wrist shot power attribute to compensate for the lack of available wrister power from the removal of the windup wrister.

Then next year you could redo the wrist shot animations maybe allowing players with great wrist shots a windup type animation that is automatically triggered when they shoot. I think this change would go a long way in making the game more realistic and enjoyable for a lot of people.

Thoughts?

[Rogie Vachon]

Re: EA I have an idea that might help stop glitch goals

After playing over 100 EASHL games since the game released I have become all too familiar with this year's goto glitch goals. 90% of them have one thing in common: They all rely on shooting a wrist shot from the "windup" position to exploit the goalie AI..

I watch a ton of hockey and this motion that is used so often in the game is not really that common in the actual NHL for most players. My idea would be to eliminate the ability to shoot from this "windup" forehand position altogether. So if you were to flick the right stick up to attempt a shot it wouldn't do anything. I doubt this is feasible with a patch but if it is you could keep the windup motion in the game strictly for stickhandling purposes and just make an across the board increase to all player's wrist shot power attribute to compensate for the lack of available wrister power from the removal of the windup wrister.

Then next year you could redo the wrist shot animations maybe allowing players with great wrist shots a windup type animation that is automatically triggered when they shoot. I think this change would go a long way in making the game more realistic and enjoyable for a lot of people.

Thoughts?

I have to agree,.....it`s one of the reasons that shot power is higher for human players in my sliders,....the cpu already gets that speed without the pullback wrister.

There are a few other body/arm/stick positions you can get a 'shot off",where in real life,you wouldn`t be anywhere near as effective,or very possible.

This animation is pretty old too,because it`s sort of always been a "go to " move for shooting,...mostly due to goalies being too hard to score on otherwise,and if they were too poor it didn`t matter.

Personally,....the only thing that bothered me is the fact that it "froze my goalie AI"....and the scoring percentage was way too high.I could stop them often enough,because the pull-back was a tell that it was a comin.

I`m a goalie in real life,.....and if I drop 20 pucks in any location one calls a scoring area,and put me in a position where I have a chance at making a save,.......1 on 1,...you shoot the same location all 20 shots per station,...... if you get 2 goals out of 20 per station,then someone missed you and you would be hall of fame material.
That`s in perfect conditions for a shooter too,nobody hacking down on you,etc.......

2 out of 20 ,......and you would be happy to get 2.

Good goalies can stop the puck,...and a 90% save percentage is almost a standard....not even considered "hot".

Man,skaters can`t even play shifts with a 90% success rate at their job,....let alone a whole game.

[Redskins Pride]

Re: EA I have an idea that might help stop glitch goals

So how do you get goals to go in? You get the goalie moving. You get him out of his comfort zone, create traffic. You freeze him from the slot.

Honestly I have no idea how ea fixes the goalies and makes them more realistic without them letting in a million goals..

[football0021]

Re: EA I have an idea that might help stop glitch goals

You guys seem to be right on. I watch a decent amount of hockey but have never played. I really enjoy the insight the hockey players on this board bring. It really is a shame that the wind up wrister is still the most scored goal in the game. This dates back all the way to 08.

[Rogie Vachon]

Re: EA I have an idea that might help stop glitch goals

So how do you get goals to go in? You get the goalie moving. You get him out of his comfort zone, create traffic. You freeze him from the slot.

Honestly I have no idea how ea fixes the goalies and makes them more realistic without them letting in a million goals..

Well,I find that cpu players can score whenever the main cpu wants them to score...it`s the human element where it gets tricky.

Lots of the time,lack of user scoring is due to user input.

How does the cpu choose between goal and save,or missed net/post....when the shooter is in perfect position for a scoring chance,yet the goalie is equally positioned perfectly and reacts perfectly?

Someone has to lose the 'roll of the dice',..unlike the real world,where the puck gives a pretty good indication of the end result.

I would guess it`s got some math and a random event generator of some type involved,....and that stuff isn`t my bag.
IMO,some of the 'scoring equations' need to be re-worked to better recreate reality. Not an easy task I`m guessing,and I`m glad I don`t have that job,cause we`d all be screwed.

You have to let goalies move and react how they can in the real world,if you move the puck around effectively the out of position goalie scoring chances will come when they come.....and then you have to get the scoring equations right for when you are in a stalemate situation...and the result could go either way.

Man,if a guy went top corner glove side on me 80 times out of a 100, from anywhere near prime scoring areas,.....I`d throw myself under the Zamboni,...cause I train 14-18 yr old female goalies that wouldn`t let in 20 out of a hundred.

They`re aint no pull back wrister glitch in the real world,.....and if I`m screened,....I still know it`s general location and I`m going to be making myself big and maybe be in a solid butterfly square to where I think the puck is coming from,......and a little luck to boot.Being screened isn`t a guarantee of a goal,.....becuase we stop most of them too. Skill and brains,the goalie`s biggest assets.When your brain knows what`s going to happen before it happens,that`s an edge,......and it`s something that top level goalies possess as a basic fundamental skill/gift.

Video hockey goalies,don`t yet have these human abilities,....so we`re dealing with the math again.


I`ll say again,if the goalies don`t move and reacting a realistic way,...then the math part is going to make the whole thing look and feel bogus for goalies,...which is what the tuners after v1.00 were doing.

In some ways the NHL11 slider settings are very touchy.I was lucky to be able to use lots of other peoples efforts to bring out some subtlties that I know lots of people are missing out on.Hitting power,...just the slightest bit too much with the wrong game flow and we`re missing out on seeing the subtle body contact,add what the tuners did to balance,agiltiy etc,and a bunch of stuff got lost in the mist........it even effected hoe the cpu AI plays. Game flow too slow,you don`t see some of the quick decision/reaction plays,.....to fast and you don`t have time to do anything,....to much hitting power and it`s big hits all the time,.....not enough and you don`t see the variety in the body contact again.

It`s a small miracle that the game even plays anything close to resembling hockey,......ahhhhh the wonders of technology.

It`s just a lot of trial and error,and trying to get the easy final tuning as good as possible using the tools that the developers allow us to use.
They did all the tough work getting us the game to the point where we do get the easy job of tuning sliders.

[Trevelyan]

Re: EA I have an idea that might help stop glitch goals

I don't really see any glitch goals this year, I think EA has done a great job of getting things out of the game like the wrap around and curve shot. I think some goals are just high danger shots for the goalie, and you'll see the computer show you all the time where not to let people shoot from.

[The Visualizer]

Re: EA I have an idea that might help stop glitch goals

I don't really see any glitch goals this year, I think EA has done a great job of getting things out of the game like the wrap around and curve shot. I think some goals are just high danger shots for the goalie, and you'll see the computer show you all the time where not to let people shoot from.

You don't play the game enough then, there's 2 from the high slot that work like the curve shot from that go in everytime and there is a deke combination that no goalie cannot save when 1 on 1 in close if done correctly with any player. Play EASHL and you will see them every other game...

[actionhank]

Re: EA I have an idea that might help stop glitch goals

I think one of the problems with goalies ( I saw problems lightly, these goalies are still worlds ahead of any goal tender or defense i've played in any other game) is that they are stuck with the basic animations, which can lead to problems, much like the poke check.
It's like having a sledge hammer to remodel your home.
It works in some situations, but it's a mess in others.
The goalies will execute some animations that you wouldn't see a goalie do in real life, that lead to goals. (I have had a lot of goals scored on me from right next to the net, because Halak did the Arms spread and slide animation even though he was already next to the post, which leaves a massive hole above his pad, and under his arm. Then there's the animation where they go to cover the puck. They lunge out, and try to go face down on the puck to cover it, but half the time they either push the puck out by hitting it, or worse still, miss the puck entirely with opposing team members sitting right there. Then since they are hunched over, there's no chance for a blocked shot, the team just scoops the puck up and roofs it.
I can't say i know an easy fix.
I can only imagine an even bigger animation library, or even a type of thing that's more specific as to where the goalie is, and how they are moving.
I have a few goals with open nets, where the goalie could have potentially slid across to stop it, but missed out because he did his desperation save animation, but instead of sliding, just sat in place with his arm and leg stretched into the net leaving 3 feet of open real estate.
Like i said, the goalies in the NHL series continue to get better, and this is really just more of a small frustration.
Definitely not deal breaking, just something i thought worth noting.

[BooShay]

Re: EA I have an idea that might help stop glitch goals

Vachon you ever heard of John Elkin?

[Trevelyan]

Re: EA I have an idea that might help stop glitch goals

You don't play the game enough then, there's 2 from the high slot that work like the curve shot from that go in everytime and there is a deke combination that no goalie cannot save when 1 on 1 in close if done correctly with any player. Play EASHL and you will see them every other game...

I have 128 games played in the EASHL/OTP.

I'd like to see video of the shot you're referring to that goes in "every time", but in my opinion, anything in the slot has a pretty good chance of going in if you can shoot corners correctly, so its up to the entire team to play solid defense and not allow those shots.

In terms of being 1 on 1 with the goalie, I know tons of dekes that have a extremely high chance of working, you're 1 on 1 with the goalie!!!! I guess I just don't understand the complaint to be honest with you, both of the things you mentioned just require defense...don't allow breakaways, and try to keep people from taking shots in the slot.

[The Visualizer]

Re: EA I have an idea that might help stop glitch goals

I have 128 games played in the EASHL/OTP.

I'd like to see video of the shot you're referring to that goes in "every time", but in my opinion, anything in the slot has a pretty good chance of going in if you can shoot corners correctly, so its up to the entire team to play solid defense and not allow those shots.

In terms of being 1 on 1 with the goalie, I know tons of dekes that have a extremely high chance of working, you're 1 on 1 with the goalie!!!! I guess I just don't understand the complaint to be honest with you, both of the things you mentioned just require defense...don't allow breakaways, and try to keep people from taking shots in the slot.

Here is the quickest thing I could dig up, I don't agree all of these are glitch goals but 2 in particular are definitely exploits

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1ITX9gajos

#1- The very first one shown (starts at 0:15), this same windup wrister from anywhere on that same angle slightly outside goalie from as high as the top of the faceoff circle to as low as the position its taken from in the video is automatic. I play really good positional defense and poke check alot but sometimes the windup motion is enough to magically get the shot around my guy even if I am shading him to his forehand

#2- Short side 1 on 1 deke (starts at 1:11), is automatic if the shooter gets in close, you dont even need to be on a breakaway, just get close and do the motion correctly and it's unsavable. The worst part about it is that it's a ridiculous angle that most NHL goalies stop 99% of the time if they stay back in their net, a NHL level goalie can really only really be beaten by this move if they come out to cut off the angles on a breakaway or by some measure of luck that the exact corner is picked from an extreme angle.

The other goals shown don't really bother me at all, but these 2 are used by 75% of the EASHL teams I play as their primary means of scoring goals, its gotten to the point where I don't even see teams trying to go cross crease anymore (which I would have never thought I would have lived to see in an EA NHL game) as its such a low percentage play compared to getting a glitch wrister off from the slot or getting in close on the goalie and using the auto short side goal. They are definitely stoppable with good defense but if you are even slightly out of position for a split second against glitchers a goal goes on the board everytime, no matter who the shooter or goalie is...thats cheese at it's finest

[Rogie Vachon]

Re: EA I have an idea that might help stop glitch goals

Vachon you ever heard of John Elkin?

Name isn`t familiar to me at the moment.

[SinisterAlex]

Re: EA I have an idea that might help stop glitch goals

Nevermind...

[SinisterAlex]

Re: EA I have an idea that might help stop glitch goals

Here is the quickest thing I could dig up, I don't agree all of these are glitch goals but 2 in particular are definitely exploits

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1ITX9gajos

#1- The very first one shown (starts at 0:15), this same windup wrister from anywhere on that same angle slightly outside goalie from as high as the top of the faceoff circle to as low as the position its taken from in the video is automatic. I play really good positional defense and poke check alot but sometimes the windup motion is enough to magically get the shot around my guy even if I am shading him to his forehand

#2- Short side 1 on 1 deke (starts at 1:11), is automatic if the shooter gets in close, you dont even need to be on a breakaway, just get close and do the motion correctly and it's unsavable. The worst part about it is that it's a ridiculous angle that most NHL goalies stop 99% of the time if they stay back in their net, a NHL level goalie can really only really be beaten by this move if they come out to cut off the angles on a breakaway or by some measure of luck that the exact corner is picked from an extreme angle.

The other goals shown don't really bother me at all, but these 2 are used by 75% of the EASHL teams I play as their primary means of scoring goals, its gotten to the point where I don't even see teams trying to go cross crease anymore (which I would have never thought I would have lived to see in an EA NHL game) as its such a low percentage play compared to getting a glitch wrister off from the slot or getting in close on the goalie and using the auto short side goal. They are definitely stoppable with good defense but if you are even slightly out of position for a split second against glitchers a goal goes on the board everytime, no matter who the shooter or goalie is...thats cheese at it's finest

The definition of glitch. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/glitch

These goals aren't glitches at all. First of all he was playing on Pro. Online (I believe) uses All-Star default settings. Therefor goals like this don't happen often. Second of all, people have tarnished and complete mis use the word glitch in NHL games now.

I posted a comment on that video under my Youtube name "Sinist3rAlex" very similar to what I'm posting now.

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Just because a clean goal goes in from the slot (which is the best angle for a clean shot to go in because you see the whole net) everyone immediately yells "GLITCH!!!!". These goals aren't glitches, they're nothing compared to NHL 09's glitches which were legitimate glitches.

The Curve Shot which is humanly impossible to do in real life made you literally curve your guy and stick around the player and shoot it top shelf. The goal line shot where you could go behind the goal line and cut in front of the net causing the goalie to do a diving poke check and you would just shot the puck top shelf. The goal where you would go down the wing and as soon as you cross the blue line you would cut to the middle and slap the puck far side top corner, that would go in every time.

These goals were glitches not these slap shots from the slot, wristers from the slot, etc. I thought people wanted more clean goals to go in for NHL 11 and now everyone's complaining about how they're are glitch goals.... how? The term "glitch" doesn't apply to any of these shots.

I'm sorry if I came across rude or ignorant but c'mon... this game's supposed "glitch" goals are NOTHING compared to 09's. I never see this stuff at all, so I don't know if you're getting bad luck, but none of this happens to me.

[The Visualizer]

Re: EA I have an idea that might help stop glitch goals

The definition of glitch. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/glitch

These goals aren't glitches at all. First of all he was playing on Pro. Online (I believe) uses All-Star default settings. Therefor goals like this don't happen often. Second of all, people have tarnished and complete mis use the word glitch in NHL games now.

I posted a comment on that video under my Youtube name "Sinist3rAlex" very similar to what I'm posting now.

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Just because a clean goal goes in from the slot (which is the best angle for a clean shot to go in because you see the whole net) everyone immediately yells "GLITCH!!!!". These goals aren't glitches, they're nothing compared to NHL 09's glitches which were legitimate glitches.

The Curve Shot which is humanly impossible to do in real life made you literally curve your guy and stick around the player and shoot it top shelf. The goal line shot where you could go behind the goal line and cut in front of the net causing the goalie to do a diving poke check and you would just shot the puck top shelf. The goal where you would go down the wing and as soon as you cross the blue line you would cut to the middle and slap the puck far side top corner, that would go in every time.

These goals were glitches not these slap shots from the slot, wristers from the slot, etc. I thought people wanted more clean goals to go in for NHL 11 and now everyone's complaining about how they're are glitch goals.... how? The term "glitch" doesn't apply to any of these shots.

I'm sorry if I came across rude or ignorant but c'mon... this game's supposed "glitch" goals are NOTHING compared to 09's. I never see this stuff at all, so I don't know if you're getting bad luck, but none of this happens to me.

Your points are taken, I just grabbed that video quickly, not saying its the best representation of what I will call "exploit" goals since you have taken offense to the word glitch. You are right they have done a good job of eliminating a lot of the "exploit" goals from years past, but the fact is the 2 goals I have specifically pointed out are still in the game, are prevalent and exploit holes in the goalies A.I. The one from the slot specifically uses the "windup" motion to deceive and freeze the goalie and is automatic, I've seen it myself enough times in 100+ games and in the case of the 1 on 1 shortside goal have been able to recreate it flawlessly in practice and game situations.

I don't mind clean goals going in once in awhile, but when you run into a team and players that come down the ice and are able to score 6+ goals on the same shot that is being defended pretty well, I am going to draw the conclusion that the game is being exploited until I am proven otherwise with a compelling argument and your statement didn't do it for me.