Is Madden Motion Sim?

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  • Palo20
    MVP
    • Dec 2006
    • 3908

    #1

    Is Madden Motion Sim?

    Since most people here are clamoring for realism, I just want to look at how the offense in Madden uses motion. Is it really sim? I love the option to motion any player I want at the line of scrimmage, but if we look at how NFL teams use motion, it’s not realistic. A couple examples:
    <O</O

    You come out in I Form Normal, running a Power O to the right. Here is your formation:
    <O</O


    <O</O




    A common Madden strategy over the past 10 years or so is to motion the WR from the right to the left to help determine if the defense is in man or zone, and if the defense is in man, the CB on that side will obviously follow. This is important in Madden because not having a CB to the play side kind of “breaks” the run defense. The OLB or SS rarely makes the adjustment to have contain on that side, and it’s often an opening for a big run. This is not an uncommon strategy in the real NFL, but in video game life, the CPU (or human for that matter) is rarely able to make the proper adjustments.
    <O</O
    If the defense is in zone, another common move would be to audible back to the original play and keep the WR on his original side. It’s bad Madden strategy to motion the WR opposite playside unless he’s taking the CB with him.
    <O</O

    Here’s why it’s not really sim: the motion that occurs on an NFL play is pre-determined, not a last minute adjustment at the line. Every now and then the QB will have a bad play call and maybe motion a TE to the backfield to help with blitz pick up, but for the most part, the motion is called in the huddle.
    <O</O

    So I propose making the motion predetermined in Madden as well. I’d like to have an extra screen right after the play call where every motion for that formation is available to be selected. So it would look like this:
    <O</O

    Play: I Form Normal Power O
    <O</O

    Motion Options (Would have diagrams):
    <O</O
    Z Across
    Z Short
    X Short
    Y Across
    Y Return
    FB Right
    FB Left
    <O</O

    So the motion would be selected before going to the line, just as it should be. I’d like to see a similar option on defense where the play is selected, followed by various pre-snap looks. I’ll post on that soon.

    Any thoughts?
    <!-- / message -->
    Last edited by Palo20; 11-11-2010, 06:03 PM.
    Twitter: @Palo50
    @PFF_Steve
  • ryan36
    7 dirty words...
    • Feb 2003
    • 10139

    #2
    Re: Is Madden Motion Sim?

    wow, fix the smileys in that please.

    Comment

    • Palo20
      MVP
      • Dec 2006
      • 3908

      #3
      Re: Is Madden Motion Sim?

      Originally posted by ryan36
      wow, fix the smileys in that please.
      Should be good now.
      Twitter: @Palo50
      @PFF_Steve

      Comment

      • Senator Palmer
        MVP
        • Jul 2008
        • 3314

        #4
        Re: Is Madden Motion Sim?

        Man, I love the idea of breaking up the playcalling elements into screens. I'd also like to see one for different protections and run schemes. You're absolutely right, though. There should be more motion options.

        I'd also like to see the option for more shifts tied to the motion. Obviously, not every offense does this, but guys like Saunders and Gibbs were notorious for it. The Falcons last week against the Bucs came out in a two tight, two wide, one back personel. But the initial formation was a basic I Formation.

        Ryan came to the line. The TE in the fullback position motioned next to Gonzalez and Roddy White shifted in next to him. Suddenly, an I formation turned into a singleback bunch, and they ran a basic trap play off of that.

        I'm not exactly sure how you integrate it, but a separate screen with the motion sounds doable. To take it a step further, I think this might solve the complaints about the custom playbooks and such. There technically are no set number of plays in an NFL playbook, only a set number you take into gameday, but plays change week-to-week based on a subtle differences in route combinations, blocking schemes, etc.

        How cool would it be to be able to call your routes on one screen to your receivers "679 YStop" or something to that effect, then a motion, then a protection?

        "Empty, Fan, Zshort, 679 YStop, First Sound."

        Formation: Empty
        Protection: Fan
        Motion: Z Short
        Routes: 679 YStop

        Also, this may be nitpicking, but I've always wanted the option to call the snap count in the huddle, and I'm not talking "hut one", or "hut two", but options like "first sound" or "blue go."

        Just throwing this all out there off the top of my head. Obviously, there would have to be some pre-packaged plays, but this combo of routes to formations and motions would take gameplanning to the next level.
        "A man can only be beaten in two ways: if he gives up, or if he dies."

        Comment

        • TNT713
          Banned
          • May 2004
          • 2043

          #5
          Re: Is Madden Motion Sim?

          Please NO!!!

          Nothing wrong with motion the way it is...

          Later

          Comment

          • Palo20
            MVP
            • Dec 2006
            • 3908

            #6
            Re: Is Madden Motion Sim?

            Originally posted by Senator Palmer
            Man, I love the idea of breaking up the playcalling elements into screens. I'd also like to see one for different protections and run schemes. You're absolutely right, though. There should be more motion options.

            I'd also like to see the option for more shifts tied to the motion. Obviously, not every offense does this, but guys like Saunders and Gibbs were notorious for it. The Falcons last week against the Bucs came out in a two tight, two wide, one back personel. But the initial formation was a basic I Formation.

            Ryan came to the line. The TE in the fullback position motioned next to Gonzalez and Roddy White shifted in next to him. Suddenly, an I formation turned into a singleback bunch, and they ran a basic trap play off of that.

            I'm not exactly sure how you integrate it, but a separate screen with the motion sounds doable. To take it a step further, I think this might solve the complaints about the custom playbooks and such. There technically are no set number of plays in an NFL playbook, only a set number you take into gameday, but plays change week-to-week based on a subtle differences in route combinations, blocking schemes, etc.

            How cool would it be to be able to call your routes on one screen to your receivers "679 YStop" or something to that effect, then a motion, then a protection?

            "Empty, Fan, Zshort, 679 YStop, First Sound."

            Formation: Empty
            Protection: Fan
            Motion: Z Short
            Routes: 679 YStop

            Also, this may be nitpicking, but I've always wanted the option to call the snap count in the huddle, and I'm not talking "hut one", or "hut two", but options like "first sound" or "blue go."

            Just throwing this all out there off the top of my head. Obviously, there would have to be some pre-packaged plays, but this combo of routes to formations and motions would take gameplanning to the next level.
            Yeah, I love the idea of getting formation shifts back. I like that it was in last gen, but I always thought they should just let you pick a formation to shift from, similar to my idea on motion.

            Would love to see your idea about calling protections too, but I think that might be wishful thinking at this point.
            Twitter: @Palo50
            @PFF_Steve

            Comment

            • Palo20
              MVP
              • Dec 2006
              • 3908

              #7
              Re: Is Madden Motion Sim?

              Originally posted by TNT713
              Please NO!!!

              Nothing wrong with motion the way it is...

              Later
              I know that motion right now isn't bad, just not how it's done in the NFL.

              I think having the option for predetermined motion would expand the playbooks tenfold.

              For instance, when I'm on defense, no matter who I'm playing, when the offense comes out in Singleback Twin TE with auto motion to playside, the play is almost always a Power O or PA Power O. I know this because almost every team has this same exact formation and pre-snap motion and the play options with that exact set up are very limited.

              In the NFL, most teams really don't run an inordinate number of plays, they just disguise them with different personel, formations and motion.

              I would love to see this in Madden where every play could have 15-20 different ways it could be run. Instead, I see TE motion and KNOW that Power O is coming because that's how every team has run it for the last 3 years in both Madden and NCAA.
              Twitter: @Palo50
              @PFF_Steve

              Comment

              • BigUnit
                Rookie
                • Oct 2008
                • 45

                #8
                Re: Is Madden Motion Sim?

                I like the idea of an extra screen for motion. There is a ton of motion in the NFL, and this would help make each game feel a little more unique.

                Comment

                • BigUnit
                  Rookie
                  • Oct 2008
                  • 45

                  #9
                  Re: Is Madden Motion Sim?

                  Originally posted by TNT713
                  Please NO!!!

                  Nothing wrong with motion the way it is...

                  Later
                  I would also like to hear why you don't like this idea?

                  Comment

                  • Rambo1986
                    Banned
                    • Sep 2010
                    • 167

                    #10
                    Re: Is Madden Motion Sim?

                    In NFL 2K5, the opposing CPU Quarterback always calls a player into motion- so I do not see how hard this could be to implement. If they can implement correctly, we can see the CPU get a delay of game call (tied into the Awareness rating). I never seen the CPU get a delay of game

                    Comment

                    • TreFacTor
                      MVP
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 1138

                      #11
                      Re: Is Madden Motion Sim?

                      Madden is moving into the ADHD era, and complicating the play calling or execution wouldn't fit into it's new mold. The game has to be pick up and play friendly. Motion is fine the way it is, and many plays already have motion before the snap built in so I see no need for them to change the way it is done. Those of us who want a more involved experience are going to have to lower our standards or find simpler ways for those complicated areas of the game to be addressed.
                      Proud Beta tester for NFL 2K Dreamcast
                      "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

                      Comment

                      • BallH4wk31
                        Rookie
                        • Aug 2010
                        • 80

                        #12
                        Re: Is Madden Motion Sim?

                        I think part of putting in accelerated clock was to limit a person's ability to motion guys around and set up plays to counter a defensive read, just enough time to hot route a player or 2. This way the plays put in the game are called more like they're set up and not basically turned into a totally different play. I used to read people's "E-guides" or whatever and it'd look like:

                        Gun Trips TE- Deep fork

                        Put A on a slant in.
                        Put Y on a curl.
                        Put X on a streak.
                        Put RB on an out.

                        Now it's not even worth calling deep fork anymore.. might as well be play X.

                        I digress, I use the auto-motion built into plays as a quick/easy read when the ball is snapped. I think that's enough, because it's pretty dominant of a reading tool. I don't think motioning options would be usable to anyone who didn't really have a great grasp on football.

                        Comment

                        • Palo20
                          MVP
                          • Dec 2006
                          • 3908

                          #13
                          Originally posted by TreFacTor
                          Madden is moving into the ADHD era, and complicating the play calling or execution wouldn't fit into it's new mold. The game has to be pick up and play friendly. Motion is fine the way it is, and many plays already have motion before the snap built in so I see no need for them to change the way it is done. Those of us who want a more involved experience are going to have to lower our standards or find simpler ways for those complicated areas of the game to be addressed.
                          I don't see why they can't add features like this that would make the game more sim for the hardcore crowd, as long as they keep the default options more "user friendly."

                          A lot of people have already discussed having a "sim" mode and "arcade" mode. I think they can co-exist.
                          Twitter: @Palo50
                          @PFF_Steve

                          Comment

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