Fictional Rosters

[raleigh mcclure]

The Final version of the OS Fictional Roster is now complete!

The file is now in the roster vault as "OSFictional V2". It is listed as a fantasy roster under the owner "Diogenes2000".

So, download it and say nice things!


CREDITS:

Spreadsheets and production:

TripleThreat1973

Editing:

Go! Cubs! Go!

Mr. Random

Turpintine

Bodizzy

SluggBugg

SluggBugg edited more teams than the rest of us combined, so he deserves much of the credit here.

Assembling the Master Roster:

SluggBugg (I had to give up all of my duties as I got too busy and SluggBugg really picked up the slack. Also, several editors got busy and had to leave their commitments and SluggBugg picked those up, too. It wouldn't be an overstatement to say that he saved the Fictional Roster project. So it's fitting that the OSFictional Roster File on the Roster Vault is listed under SluggBugg).

Advice and Suggestions:

Knight165

Getting the Ball Rolling and Talking Too Much:

Raleigh McClure

Thanks Everyone for all of your hard work. The reward is in playing with this fine roster!






Information about the Roster:

The spreadsheet we used to create this roster was provided by TripleThreat. He used OOTP to get the initial names and stats, then he tweaked those stats in order to make them compatible with The Show. Then several editors volunteered to edit the players based on the spreadsheet.



Some Things You Might Notice:

Originally, there was a disproportionate number of 'A' potential position players, though based on my cursory review of the finished product, I think SluggBugg and the others managed to curb those numbers back to normal.

There are several MLB Ghost players. Those are the former MLBPA players whose career stats remained even after the player had been imported over. For instance, even when Generic Player X was imported over A-Rod, Generic Player X had over 600 career homeruns. As a solution, we initially decided just to send all of the players with MLB experience to the bottom with low ratings. Sending them all down, however, turned the Single A ball clubs into graveyards, so we had to import some low level 'D' players just to have some players on the Single A team and also to prevent a mass retirement exodus, the effects of which we never tested.

Once all of the teams were assembled, I did a quick (if you can call six hours quick) final review in order to tweak some different things. I believe that there is probably much more that could be done.



Old Posts:


Here's where we are:

TripleThreat has generated a spreadsheet (all teams are combined into one sheet, but the players are divided by team) for the batters. He'll have the pitchers done in a bit. Here is the link for the spreadsheet:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Atsjy2zt3IdZdGlHS1kzQXNZeXNZVFQ3ZVg0emZQb0E&hl=en&authkey=CIyF4JEJ#gid=0

Here is the link for the pitcher spreadsheet:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Atsjy2zt3IdZdF9WSFFBN19kandqS2IxY25PTXJwUnc&hl=en&authkey=CNm0p8AK

As you work from the pitcher spreadsheet, you might notice that there aren't enough pitchers to fill out a forty, or enough pitchers at certain potential grades. Those omissions were deliberate, since it will take me very little time to import some SCEA players at the appropriate potential grades to fill out the roster. Also, the pitch velocities are listed in MPH and not as the ratings numbers themselves.


Editing the Players:

Previously, it had been suggested to import generic players over the MLBPA players, then use that generic player as the "base" to be edited over. Unfortunately, Mr. Random pointed out that career statistics appear to carry over from the MLBPA guy to the generic player. In order to compensate for this, the new suggestion is to edit over generic players with no MLB experience.

The spreadsheets have potential grades attached to each player, so you'll first want to find a generic player (minor league player) with that potential grade to edit over. You can pull them in from other teams, it doesn't matter. Since we're only editing over about forty players (about 20 batters and 20 pitchers) per team, all that matters is that I can find them (you can send me a list) when you upload your roster or send me the players in a file.

There are more players on the spreadsheet than you need, so you can choose twenty or so to edit. The way I would suggest selecting players is to begin by skipping all of the "D" potential players. I'll be importing plenty of those from generic SCEA rosters. Then, I go through each position and whittle the remaining players down. For instance, if there are three first basemen and two of them are almost identical, skip one. If there are six left fielders, you can probably skip several of those. Just use your best judgment.

Once I have my list of twenty or so batters, the next thing I do is to find enough "A", "B", and "C" potential players to edit over. You can move them from other rosters if you want (that might save on the time it takes to randomize accessories). What I did, though, is I exported one player at each of the potential grades "A", "B", and "C". I made them all the same position, and called them "A player", "B player", and so on. Then I just import enough of each grade over the generic players on the team. That way, they all end up at one position. When I begin editing players, I have a "stockpile" of each potential grade that is easy to find.

Next, I begin by editing very basic stuff: position, player name (changing the name if necessary to find one in the audio database), and the ratings. This is the part that takes about an hour and a half for the team. The advantage to doing this first is that when you go back to edit appearances, you'll have a better sense for which players to spend more time on, namely, the starters, the all-stars, and young up and coming prospects. Don't spend as much time on back ups and triple A players unless you want to drive yourself crazy.

There are still going to be some creative decisions to make, even working from the spreadsheets. There will be some clues as to ethnicity and skin tone, but the faces will be up to you. Also, use your judgment when the spreadsheet lists ethnicity as "Latin" but the player's name is "Bob Smith". The pitch deliveries and batting stances will be up to you. For those, you can try to match the stance to the type of hitter you're editing. Accessories will be up to you. For most players, you can just randomize this stuff. But for the one's you care to, you can spend more time individualizing the player's appearance.


Some Quirks You May Notice:

There are a large number of "A" potential players due to a mix up. The easiest way forward is to edit players according to the spreadsheets and I (and possibly some others, such as TripleThreat) will go back in to "fix" the problem. You can probably help in a simple way. If there are, say, three first basemen on the spreadsheet that all have "A" potential, you can go ahead and skip one. The rest we'll figure out later (see the thread for some discussion on what we're going to do if you're interested).

There might be some other ratings that look out of balance. Some of the apparent imbalances are deliberate and our thinking is that things such as generally lower defensive ratings will help gameplay. Other things that need correction (CF speed ratings, for one) are things we're aware of and will be fixed at the end.


Getting the players to me:

Once you've completed the team, i.e. the 30 players you've just edited, then you need to send them to me following one of the methods below (thanks to WB1214 for the explanation):

Method 1: One person does a team, such as the Braves, makes them unique, etc. After completing the roster, you place it into the roster vault under a name that you tell the guy with the master roster [that will be me, Raleigh McClure] what it is. He will then EXPORT the fictional players, load the master roster, and IMPORT them in over the players in the master roster.

Method 2: After completing a team, the person that did the roster exports all the players in a folder and sends them to the master roster guy, usually through sendspace, and then the main guy gets the roster and IMPORTs them over the players in the master roster.


I'll assemble the teams as I get them.

I think that's all anyone would need to know. Please read through the rest of the thread if you're so inclined, it will help to get a feel for the tenor of the conversation.

Again, below are the teams. Teams with a corresponding name have volunteers; teams without names across from them are available. Even if you see a team that has been claimed, feel free to speak up if you want to help or take a team from someone that is already editing four or five.

At some point here, I'll try to copy Knight's method for color-coding the teams based on level of completion. I just haven't gotten around to it, nor is there much to differentiate at the moment.

Color Key: Black = Not Started; Blue = Completed; Green = In Progress.

OK, here we go:

AL East:

Yankees [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg
Red Sox [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg
Rays [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg
Blue Jays [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg
Orioles [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg

AL Central:

Tigers [Pitchers -- Position Players]: Raleigh McClure
W. Sox [Pitchers -- Position Players]: Raleigh McClure
Twins [Pitchers -- Position Players]: Raleigh McClure
Royals [Pitchers -- Position Players]: Raleigh McClure
Indians [Pitchers -- Position Players]: Raleigh McClure

AL West:

A's [Pitchers -- Position Players]: Mr. Random
Mariners [Pitchers -- Position Players]: Mr. Random
Angels [Pitchers -- Position Players]: Mr. Random
Rangers [Pitchers -- Position Players]: Mr. Random

NL East:

Braves [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg
Phillies [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg
Marlins [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg
Nats [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg
Mets [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg

NL Central:

Cards [Pitchers -- Position Players]: Go! Cubs! Go!
Reds [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg
Brewers [Pitchers -- Position Players]: Go! Cubs! Go!
Cubs [Pitchers -- Position Players]: Go! Cubs! Go!
Astros [Pitchers -- Position Players]: Mr. Random
Pirates [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg

NL West:

Giants [Pitchers -- Position Players]: Mr. Random
Dodgers [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg
Rockies [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg
Padres [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg
D'Backs [Pitchers -- Position Players]: sluggbugg


Original First Post:

I would like to create a fictional roster and was hoping to gauge interest in a project like this. I can take the first part of the task by replacing all real players with generic players at each potential grade and then save the roster to the vault (still need to figure out how all of that works).

A bit of background: I first tried to sim far enough into the future, 2030 maybe, hoping that might be an easier route to a fictional roster. I ran into some problems with the franchise bug and, also, that I left training on auto. There were some strange results. Most rookies were in their late twenties or early thirties. Also, I'm not sure how realistic the generated players were. For one thing, the speed ratings don't seem to be nearly as high as they ought to be, especially for young center fielder types. The appearances, as well, leave something to be desired.

Taking a cue from Knight, I figured the next path to take would be to export one generic player at every potential grade and then import them in place of every real MLB player on each roster. The only problem I see there is that I would want to tweak the ratings, appearance, etc. for each player hoping to come up with something at least approximating a realistic roster with young players, veterans, different player types, a variety of skill levels, etc. That kind of tweaking approaches fifteen to twenty minutes per player. If there are twenty-five (probably more) real players on every MLB roster (30 teams), then at 15 minutes a piece, the work quickly approaches over 180 hours of player editing (25 players x 30 teams / 4 players per hour).

So, I'm just looking to see if there is any other interest out there in doing fictional rosters. After I replace every real player with a generic player at the same potential grade, the work that is left is to tweak the generic players in order to inject some variety and a touch of realism to the set. If enough people were willing to take on a team or two, the work would be something more along the lines of ten or so hours each. I don't want to replicate realism or I'd just play with the regular rosters (something I'm considering... you know, considering the time involved). I just want to vary up the generic players enough to approximate a working league.

If there isn't enough interest, I'll probably just scrap the idea. Weighing the time involved against just starting a franchise with Knight's rosters in a couple of weeks makes playing with fictional rosters seem like a pipe dream.

Anyone?

[Bodizzy]

Re: Fictional Rosters

I would totally be game. I do thoroughly enjoy playing with authentic rosters with real players, but as a nice change of pace I would kill to have a totally fictitious roster set.

I'm not sure about the logistics involved such as CAP limits, inability to edit player's career stats, etc., but it's something I was thinking about doing on my own anyway over a period of time. I relentlessly tinker with the actual rosters anyway, even after I get my hands on Knight's (now the community's).

Imagine the customization of OOTP w/ the gameplay engine and everything of The Show. That could be addiction incarnate.

[Knight165]

Re: Fictional Rosters

I'm in. I'm on my phone..... so I'll post my thoughts on what I think is the best way to go about it later.

M.K.
Knight165_

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Fictional Rosters

Would be awesome to get in the old school guys from NES days like PASTE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g0aW0i08pY

[WB1214]

Re: Fictional Rosters

I would be down to play with the roster lol. It would be a great change of pace. I'll try and check back in every once in awhile and see how it is going. Good idea though for sure

[raleigh mcclure]

Re: Fictional Rosters

I'm glad to see there's some interest. I think Bodizzy hit the nail on the head with the reason for wanting to do this: combining OOTP with the gameplay of MLB. I think Knight also said elsewhere that the appeal is in having no "pre-conceived notions" about players.

I particularly like it because I've always played with a fantasy roster for one team anyways, but then I didn't do any trading or free agent signing with the other teams because it would ruin my fantasy roster.

I like the suggestion of "Paste." I'm not actually familiar with him, but the idea here is to be somewhat flexible with players created. On my current fantasy roster, I've made players such as "Tyler 'Rube' Foster", who is a sort of fictional great grandson of Andrew "Rube" Foster. I think that's right though, to get some kind of inspiration for a player from some already existing, or previously existing, real player.

When I've started making a single team fantasy roster, I've usually started by figuring out the player type and some appropriate ratings. Then I scroll through the audio database to find some combination of names that sounds right. For instance, I've tried to make teams with different strategies (power hitters, pitching/defense, speed/small ball, etc.). So players have certain roles to fill on each kind of team. I've also tried to have a reasonable representation of ethnicity, which provides some variety in player creation.

One tool that helped last year was that I created spreadsheets for every MLB team's position players (I handled pitchers separately). I listed the players on the left and then their ratings across. That helped to find average ratings for speed, power, etc. When I had finished creating my team, I used the spreadsheets as a comparison tool to make sure I hadn't made my team disproportionately fast, or powerful, and so on. I also then split those team spreadsheets up by position, so that, for instance, I had a spreadsheet with all MLB second basement listed. From that I could do two things: first, I could determine average ratings among second basemen which helps to get a feel for each position; second, the list of second basemen provided many models to base an individual player on, for instance, if I happened to want to make a player like Dan Uggla this time instead of like Alexi Casilla.

I could make up spreadsheets like that again, if those would be helpful to others. I'll also work on making more concise posts, since I'm getting awfully wordy.

I'd like to wait for Knight's input, then we can draw up some more concrete plans for method and division of labor.

[Trues]

Re: Fictional Rosters

I'd be very interested in this as well. I'll be following for sure.

[kehlis]

Re: Fictional Rosters

I'd love a fictional roster.

I used to do one with Hardball all the time, loved it, it gives me a chance to see some NL parks.

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: Fictional Rosters

There are "fictional rosters" available for MVP. There are also fictional rosters available for other games.

The generated players from Baseball Pro 98 (and previous) would be worth using, actually very good (and more detailed ratings than The Show).

One could also make a bucket of "fake names" and "player ratings" and then just "match em up".

The key is going to make sure that the pitchers repitoires make sense with their velocities and that batters appearances match up with the ethnicity of their names. Having Tyron Jackson look Asian, etc is just simply goofy. However, I am not telling you anything you don;t already know.

Anyway, BBPro98 generates players, for all livels, for up to 56 teams, and there's more "ratings" than The Show has (day/night, grass/turf, home/road, vR/vL, etc).

For MVP, I created a seperate "universe" using all fictional teams (modded team names, logos, jerseys, etc). What I think you'll find is that you will very much miss the "real players/teams" ... and I say this as one that had a blast with "fictional uiverses" in BBPro98 and Tony 3, and loved Bases Loaded 1 and 2.

At this point, it would be foolish to say I'm not interested ... as I would have just ignored the thread. I'm not all that interested in entering 200+ hours worth of fictional player ratings, but I'll see if I can come up with a pool of generated players whose rating could be used "as is" or converted to The Show scale.

High Heat 2003 also has a full, rich, deep, generated player minor league system that could be used. Stats can always be converted to ratings.

I can still remeber a 6'3 225 pound 19yo SS (Bill Bishop) that I had on HH2K3. Damn beast.

Edit: Duh, the easiest way is going to use Baseball Mogul or OOTP, both have options to create completely fictional universes/franchises ... AND they can be exported to excel.

[statdude]

Re: Fictional Rosters

Would love to help maybe. I can't make faces for **** tho. Also, Someone should make Jon Dowd form the MVP Series.

[raleigh mcclure]

Re: Fictional Rosters

There are "fictional rosters" available for MVP. There are also fictional rosters available for other games.

The generated players from Baseball Pro 98 (and previous) would be worth using, actually very good (and more detailed ratings than The Show).

One could also make a bucket of "fake names" and "player ratings" and then just "match em up".

The key is going to make sure that the pitchers repitoires make sense with their velocities and that batters appearances match up with the ethnicity of their names. Having Tyron Jackson look Asian, etc is just simply goofy. However, I am not telling you anything you don;t already know.

Anyway, BBPro98 generates players, for all livels, for up to 56 teams, and there's more "ratings" than The Show has (day/night, grass/turf, home/road, vR/vL, etc).

For MVP, I created a seperate "universe" using all fictional teams (modded team names, logos, jerseys, etc). What I think you'll find is that you will very much miss the "real players/teams" ... and I say this as one that had a blast with "fictional uiverses" in BBPro98 and Tony 3, and loved Bases Loaded 1 and 2.

At this point, it would be foolish to say I'm not interested ... as I would have just ignored the thread. I'm not all that interested in entering 200+ hours worth of fictional player ratings, but I'll see if I can come up with a pool of generated players whose rating could be used "as is" or converted to The Show scale.

High Heat 2003 also has a full, rich, deep, generated player minor league system that could be used. Stats can always be converted to ratings.

I can still remeber a 6'3 225 pound 19yo SS (Bill Bishop) that I had on HH2K3. Damn beast.

Edit: Duh, the easiest way is going to use Baseball Mogul or OOTP, both have options to create completely fictional universes/franchises ... AND they can be exported to excel.

Absolutely, this makes a lot of sense. I was anticipating problems with getting several people to work together without constraints or limits of any kind. This takes care of that problem by providing ratings for the players. And even if people don't like how the teams shake out, once we're done anyone can take this roster and start a franchise with a "fantasy draft" and divide up the players how they want.

I agree with your concern about the time involved. I was considering scrapping the whole idea earlier. And with the methods I proposed above, I was hoping, in the absence of better ideas, just to combat the problem through manpower. If we can generate The Show ratings fairly easily with another fictional roster generator, then the most time consuming part of the process will be entering the ratings, matching names and ethnicity, etc. With a few people contributing, that's a reasonable amount of work.

I looked through a few of your other posts and it looks like you have some experience with this sort of thing. Just to see how it might work, I started up an OOTP league with an MLB league set-up. I'm in the import/export folder, but I'm not totally sure how to go about getting spreadsheets with player ratings by team. I'll keep tinkering. Let me know what you think about converting the OOTP ratings to The Show (particularly, I wonder how we might match OOTP's rating specific potential to The Show's overall potential grade...). If you find a good way to do it and want to upload the spreadsheets (even with the conversion work yet to do) we can have a volunteer system by team (like the have for the OSFM rosters).

I think this is the right way to go about it though. If we get ratings and names imported for 25 or 30 players per MLB team, the roster is at least working at that point. The rest can be a matter of personal preference, depending on how much anyone cares about appearances and so on. I enjoy creating player faces, but to each his own.

Edit: Also, let me know what you think about whether it's easier to convert the ratings, or to let an OOTP season play out and convert the year end statistics. Knight might have something to add here, since his spreadsheets for player creation are based on statistics.

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: Fictional Rosters

Absolutely, this makes a lot of sense. I was anticipating problems with getting several people to work together without constraints or limits of any kind. This takes care of that problem by providing ratings for the players. And even if people don't like how the teams shake out, once we're done anyone can take this roster and start a franchise with a "fantasy draft" and divide up the players how they want.

I agree with your concern about the time involved. I was considering scrapping the whole idea earlier. And with the methods I proposed above, I was hoping, in the absence of better ideas, just to combat the problem through manpower. If we can generate The Show ratings fairly easily with another fictional roster generator, then the most time consuming part of the process will be entering the ratings, matching names and ethnicity, etc. With a few people contributing, that's a reasonable amount of work.

I looked through a few of your other posts and it looks like you have some experience with this sort of thing. Just to see how it might work, I started up an OOTP league with an MLB league set-up. I'm in the import/export folder, but I'm not totally sure how to go about getting spreadsheets with player ratings by team. I'll keep tinkering. Let me know what you think about converting the OOTP ratings to The Show (particularly, I wonder how we might match OOTP's rating specific potential to The Show's overall potential grade...). If you find a good way to do it and want to upload the spreadsheets (even with the conversion work yet to do) we can have a volunteer system by team (like the have for the OSFM rosters).

I think this is the right way to go about it though. If we get ratings and names imported for 25 or 30 players per MLB team, the roster is at least working at that point. The rest can be a matter of personal preference, depending on how much anyone cares about appearances and so on. I enjoy creating player faces, but to each his own.

You have to export each teams roster to a "website view" or whatever it's called and then physically copy and paste into a spreadsheet.

I've done this numerous times and if memory serves, it's about 2 minutes per team.

IMO, the most lengthy part of the process is creating the players in the game and entering the ratings. It's also the LEAST fun part (except for the really good players). For THAT part I would suggest that we keep that fictional minor leaguers because editing AA players is a long, boring, horrific, process. But, creating/editing major leaguers would be tolerable, and not a complete "2nd job" type of time investment.

Not sure of the logistics. Would be nice if The Show had a "random player generator", like some of the computer sims do.

The nice part of the OOTP game is that all of the bio info (including nationality, pitches, etc) is already done ... and done "in line" with everything else.

Creating Paste, Agua, etc from the old Bases Loaded games would be, well Sa-weeet. I can't remeber the name but the sidearm lefty from NY was murder.

But new guys will, likely need to be created from "scratch" and that does take time (if we want to be noticeably different in appearance), but guys can also be created with any combinations of facial hair, etc ... and the more diverse, the better. Sideburns, facial hair, etc can be as crazy or plain as people want. The more "character" they have,the more enjoyable the rosters would be, IMO.

I would love to hear Knight's ideas on logistics. If the players could be created "in game", by say simiulating 10 seasons, the laborsome part would be done, and just some tweaking and data entry needed.

[Bodizzy]

Re: Fictional Rosters

As I mentioned, seems like a logistical case of hemorrhoids, but it's too appealing of an idea to not try. And like TripleThreat hit on, it all has to make sense regarding the type of pitcher a guy is and his repertoire, corner outfielders and their tool set, etc. Everyone has to be on the same page (for the most part) with not using the same batting stance too much. But it seems like it will be most about balance. Raleigh makes good points about this.

How many guys have elite speed? How many of those can actually hit every day and field? How many guys can break the yard 40-plus times a season? When I was toying with OOTP a while back there was a guy I had a conversation with in a forum about how he idealized the '80s as the template for league balance with power, speed, average, etc. Something to think about if we really attempt this.

The game evolves. Now you have lumberjacks like Dunn and Howard who stroke for power but strike out an inordinate amount of the time. There are speedy, contact guys who just try to work the plate, put the ball in play, and prowl the base paths. Go back three decades and you had to be more balanced to suit up. Do we want a league that represents right now, a more '80s style of play, or a blend?

What teams do we want to be great? Do we draw teams out of a hat or focus on the large markets that have the dough and go from there? All intriguing questions to be sure.

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: Fictional Rosters

As I mentioned, seems like a logistical case of hemorrhoids, but it's too appealing of an idea to not try. And like TripleThreat hit on, it all has to make sense regarding the type of pitcher a guy is and his repertoire, corner outfielders and their tool set, etc. Everyone has to be on the same page (for the most part) with not using the same batting stance too much. But it seems like it will be most about balance. Raleigh makes good points about this.

How many guys have elite speed? How many of those can actually hit every day and field? How many guys can break the yard 40-plus times a season? When I was toying with OOTP a while back there was a guy I had a conversation with in a forum about how he idealized the '80s as the template for league balance with power, speed, average, etc. Something to think about if we really attempt this.

The game evolves. Now you have lumberjacks like Dunn and Howard who stroke for power but strike out an inordinate amount of the time. There are speedy, contact guys who just try to work the plate, put the ball in play, and prowl the base paths. Go back three decades and you had to be more balanced to suit up. Do we want a league that represents right now, a more '80s style of play, or a blend?

What teams do we want to be great? Do we draw teams out of a hat or focus on the large markets that have the dough and go from there? All intriguing questions to be sure.

If I were doing this on my own (and with the 80s being my favorite baseball decade), I would create a roster that mimiced a "Baseball Stars" format ... where there were "stereotypical teams" ... the speed/defense team, the pitching team, the power team, the young team, the veteran team, balanced teams, etc.

Pick your flavor (or fantasy draft if you don't like the setup).

I would advise on "not" making it too realistic, otherwise it would be kind of bland. You kind of need that 90-power, 85-speed guy to give the roster some character. Otherwise, it's all mired in mediocrity (so to speak).

There needs to be a Mickey mantle and a Randy Johnson in there, otherwise there's no one to love or hate.

To go "fictional", but "realistic" could lead to there not being any Pujols or ARod, I mean who would really believe a SS as being the games best power hitter?

This stuff is incredibly easy to do in a spreadsheet. Seriously, with formulas already developed, the ratings can be computed in 5 minutes (copy and paste the raw data) into a spreadsheet and voila, done.

Weighting different categories can assemble teams rather quickly based on predetermined criteria. Again, not much time involved.

Creating the darn guys in the actual game (especially using a controller) and data entering the ratings is the time consuming and motivation killing part.

However, creating the huge jaw'd, stubble encrusted, mammoth slugger that's the extreme TTO (Three True Ooutcomes -- BB/K/HR) version of Adam Dunn can be fun, as would be creating the 6'0 160 pound Latin flamethrower with a great change-up (ala, Pedro) would be fun too. It's all of the *other* guys that wreck it.

If one would create a completely fictional, but very realistic roster, without such extremes might be "too bland". Interested what others think. The point of other games using realistic & fictional rosters is to put maximum value on the GM/Owner's ability to detect value players, and make smart organizational decisions with their money/picks. In a roster for The Show, I would think that maximum enjoyment while "playing" the game would be the focus. The "appearance" of the players is likely an impotant part of this.

[raleigh mcclure]

Re: Fictional Rosters

TT: For THAT part I would suggest that we keep that fictional minor leaguers because editing AA players is a long, boring, horrific, process. But, creating/editing major leaguers would be tolerable, and not a complete "2nd job" type of time investment.

I agree here. If we decide to do a collaborative project of editing players, I think we ought to limit it to active rosters and maybe AAA or a handful of prospects or something. No sense in creating more work for ourselves.

TT: Creating Paste, Agua, etc from the old Bases Loaded games would be, well Sa-weeet. I can't remeber the name but the sidearm lefty from NY was murder.

I personally think this kind of thing would be great. That brings up a question, assuming we do some kind of collaborative project like this: do we create a basic, working roster, and leave it individuals on their own time to create specialized players like Paste, in order to accommodate as many preferences as possible? Or, do we open the gates to creativity and encourage making the players above? I'm fine either way, and even like having recognizable players from other games.

TT: But new guys will, likely need to be created from "scratch" and that does take time (if we want to be noticeably different in appearance), but guys can also be created with any combinations of facial hair, etc ... and the more diverse, the better. Sideburns, facial hair, etc can be as crazy or plain as people want. The more "character" they have,the more enjoyable the rosters would be, IMO.

I wasn't entirely sure what you meant here by "new guys." Do you mean in place of the "real" mlb players? That's where I was going to replace MLB players with generic players at each potential grade, in order to give us a completely generic roster to work with. Or do you just mean the work involved with tweaking faces, gear, stances, etc. for every player we edit in order to get individualized players?

TT: I would love to hear Knight's ideas on logistics. If the players could be created "in game", by say simiulating 10 seasons, the laborsome part would be done, and just some tweaking and data entry needed.[/quote]

Same here. The errors I made in my attempt to sim ahead fifteen or twenty seasons were that I was going to try franchise workaround methods for just the last five to ten years of simulation in order to decrease the time involved. I found that offering default/lowball contracts to each "contract renewable" player was taking about 45 minutes per offseason simulated. I was hoping that rosters would "stabilize", so to speak, after five to ten seasons of franchise bug workarounds, but I didn't get far enough to check. I also forgot to turn training off, so the league that resulted seemed to have too many problems. This method may still work. In that case, would we even need to work together on this? This almost sounds like an individual solution to the problem. Or would you want this as a way to get a base generic roster to work from?

Edit: I don't know what I did, but the quote boxes aren't there.