Question on Helmets in Pro Bowl for Madden 12

[poulka]

Will Madden 12 have team specific helmets in the Pro Bowl? Has any info been provided on this topic.

[RedZoneD25]

Re: Question on Helmets in Pro Bowl for Madden 12

Will Madden 12 have team specific helmets in the Pro Bowl? Has any info been provided on this topic.

I'm near positive this is something they would have told us already if it were in. Take the silence as a no until proven otherwise.

[Spanky]

Re: Question on Helmets in Pro Bowl for Madden 12

This was in one year in last-gen, can't remember what year but I'm fairly certain it was.
But I also recall a dev saying it messes up too many other things (frame rate, maybe?) that it's not worth it. That might be the same reason they don't have individual team uniforms in baseball all-star games.

[mestevo]

Re: Question on Helmets in Pro Bowl for Madden 12

Yup, it's resource heavy to load all 32 helmets in a single game, that's why we haven't seen it. The systems certainly don't have that much overhead during games left over and is why you can see the occasional stutter/slowdown. Technology may not have been pushing a previous console hard enough or it handled resources differently so the overhead was available to load all the helmets.

[poulka]

Re: Question on Helmets in Pro Bowl for Madden 12

Yup, it's resource heavy to load all 32 helmets in a single game, that's why we haven't seen it. The systems certainly don't have that much overhead during games left over and is why you can see the occasional stutter/slowdown. Technology may not have been pushing a previous console hard enough or it handled resources differently so the overhead was available to load all the helmets.

This is why I had that previous thread about things being left out in these consoles. If these console are suppposedly so much better than the previous ones why would this be an issue. PS2 Madden 02-04 had these and there was no problem. I'll also take no word as no as well.

[mestevo]

Re: Question on Helmets in Pro Bowl for Madden 12

This is why I had that previous thread about things being left out in these consoles. If these console are suppposedly so much better than the previous ones why would this be an issue. PS2 Madden 02-04 had these and there was no problem. I'll also take no word as no as well.

They weren't as powerful, but it doesn't mean the engine(s) and assets being used during games consumed 100% of their power which would make things like this topic possible.

[DirtyJerz32]

Re: Question on Helmets in Pro Bowl for Madden 12

I don't think this is ever going to be possible.

[mercalnd]

Re: Question on Helmets in Pro Bowl for Madden 12

This is why I had that previous thread about things being left out in these consoles. If these console are suppposedly so much better than the previous ones why would this be an issue. PS2 Madden 02-04 had these and there was no problem. I'll also take no word as no as well.

The amount of memory required for each helmet with the detail levels of the 360/PS3 generation is exponentially bigger than what it was on XBOX and PS2. The systems have more memory but the discrepancy between the systems of both generations is much smaller than the discrepancy between the levels of details in the graphical assets used today VS back then.

People get frustrated because they're the same helmets/stadiums/whatever but they're really not the same assets at all.

[xbreezex]

Re: Question on Helmets in Pro Bowl for Madden 12

I thought our new systems are "better" I can't really buy that "overhead statement.

[mestevo]

Re: Question on Helmets in Pro Bowl for Madden 12

I thought our new systems are "better" I can't really buy that "overhead statement.

So you think that there's plenty of room to load in more assets, animations and AI over what's being done now, and stuff like sideline detail have stayed the way they are because of some other profound reason like 'its EA' or something?

They've been developing on these consoles for 6+ years, there's little doubt in my mind that there's a lot of loading and unloading of assets to get things like these new openings in the game.

Do some of you guys who have replied really think Madden today has the same footprint as it did 5-6+ years ago and all the 'its gooder!' our the newer consoles bring to the table is just going unused?

[poulka]

Re: Question on Helmets in Pro Bowl for Madden 12

I thought our new systems are "better" I can't really buy that "overhead statement.

I could not agree more. I understand what people are saying about assets taking more things. For example if I understand correctly, more details, camera angles, cut scenes. But to me before adding things like that some things should be priority. Pro Bowl and having different helmets is realistic. Seeing everyone with the same helmets is something "we don't see in any current format Pro Bowl. So at the beginning they should have found a way to preserve that. As far as stadiums and other options, that could be left off. I don't no.

[raz77]

Re: Question on Helmets in Pro Bowl for Madden 12

I don't buy it either. If a professional developer can't manage to get in the 30 extra textures for the helmets that is kinda embarrassing. They wouldn't even have to be the same quality as the normal game helmet textures as we are talking a single game here.

Of course this assumes they actually tried and we aren't looking at something like restricted free agency where earlier on Phil Frazier comes out and says they could easily do it, but haven't.

[xbreezex]

Re: Question on Helmets in Pro Bowl for Madden 12

I mean, im just saying its no reason why this shouldn't be done. I loved it on last gen maddens and I played every pro bowl because it was fun seeing all those helmets. Now they're gone for the last 4 years. How can an old system out shine the new one in these terms. I fail to believe. Maybe they're just not putting in the effort to make this work. I can't stand to see a franchise mode with out this, hopefully they sneak this in im praying. lol.

[The GIGGAS]

Re: Question on Helmets in Pro Bowl for Madden 12

Alright, I'm going to try and explain this. CHooe might be able to do it better, but I'll give it a shot.

Let's go with the PS2. In the PS2, there was 32MB of RAM. Helmet textures back in "ye olden days" were small, let's say they were 512KB (a terrible guess, but go with me). With that, it would only take 16MB to load all 32 teams' helmets, which would leave 16MB for the rest of the game. Thanks to the small sizes of the textures, it was doable, but from what other people have said on the issue, there were some problems with a consistent framerate (I don't remember ever playing the Pro Bowl).

Let's look at the Xbox 360. It has 512MB of RAM. This, obviously, is a large increase over the PS2. however, texture sizes have ballooned for high-definition gaming. Let's say that each helmet texture (+ lighting maps, etc) is 20x larger: 10MB per. That means that loading all 32 will take 320 MB. That's over half, and those textures aren't the only things that have been increased, so there's not enough memory to have everything that the game needs to work with.

Here's a quote from CHooe, who is also a programmer, and has been a game dev at a small iPhone/Android game shop:

For example, the main reason we don't have correct Pro Bowl helmet implementation (each player wears his respective team's helmet) is due to RAM limitations. There isn't enough space to store the color texture and also the various light mapping textures for more than two helmets at a time, along with everything else that must be stored by the game during gameplay.

If you want the Pro Bowl helmets, go to Sony and Microsoft and petition them for more RAM in their machines.

[jeremym480]

Re: Question on Helmets in Pro Bowl for Madden 12

Alright, I'm going to try and explain this. CHooe might be able to do it better, but I'll give it a shot.

Let's go with the PS2. In the PS2, there was 32MB of RAM. Helmet textures back in "ye olden days" were small, let's say they were 512KB (a terrible guess, but go with me). With that, it would only take 16MB to load all 32 teams' helmets, which would leave 16MB for the rest of the game. Thanks to the small sizes of the textures, it was doable, but from what other people have said on the issue, there were some problems with a consistent framerate (I don't remember ever playing the Pro Bowl).

Let's look at the Xbox 360. It has 512MB of RAM. This, obviously, is a large increase over the PS2. however, texture sizes have ballooned for high-definition gaming. Let's say that each helmet texture (+ lighting maps, etc) is 20x larger: 10MB per. That means that loading all 32 will take 320 MB. That's over half, and those textures aren't the only things that have been increased, so there's not enough memory to have everything that the game needs to work with.

Here's a quote from CHooe, who is also a programmer, and has been a game dev at a small iPhone/Android game shop:



If you want the Pro Bowl helmets, go to Sony and Microsoft and petition them for more RAM in their machines.

<nerd>