Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

[spit_bubble]

Edit: Better idea for target based passing posted below...

Thread title should read:

"Target based passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome..."

And yes, it would be awesome. It would better simulate the QB position, bringing another realistic layer to the game, essentially simulating both where a QB is looking... As well as a QB's ability, or inability, to manipulate the defense with where he is looking.

Here's the setup:

Thumb on the left stick to control the feet. Thumb on the right stick to target a receiver. R1 button to pass the ball. R2 to pump fake.

No vision cone. No Tecmo Bowl style cycling. Just a quick flick in the direction of the receiver to target him. And if two receivers are in the same line of sight, another quick flick to target the receiver further down field.

For QBs with low awareness, you could limit the number of times they are allowed to switch targets. And for QBs with really low awareness, rookies especially, only let them target one receiver per play.

For QBs with higher awareness, they would be able to target receivers without any limitations, so that they could look off safeties and deliver pump fakes.

And this would not replace icon passing. It would be an addition.

[spit_bubble]

Re: Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

Just thought of another idea...

Get rid of icons all together, and use the right stick to select your receiver, then press a button to throw. There would still be some sort of indicator for the highlighted receiver, but it would only be on one receiver at a time. You could then use it to simulate looking off a safety, by having one receiver highlighted, only to quickly switch to the intended receiver at the last moment.

I kind of like this better, though it might get kind of tricky when two receivers are in the same vicinity.

[spit_bubble]

Re: Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

Just thought of another idea...

Get rid of icons all together, and use the right stick to select your receiver, then press a button to throw. There would still be some sort of indicator for the highlighted receiver, but it would only be on one receiver at a time. You could then use it to simulate looking off a safety, by having one receiver highlighted, only to quickly switch to the intended receiver at the last moment.

I kind of like this better, though it might get kind of tricky when two receivers are in the same vicinity.

And building off this...

You could have the highlight indicator appear over each WR in progression. So for the example above, the highlight would automatically appear over the quick out (read 1), then it would move on to the curl (read 2), etc. But you could also switch the indicator with the right stick if you wanted to. So you would have both the structure of the progression of the play, along with the freedom to improvise as you see fit.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

I'm starting to envision an evolution of the icon based passing system, one that has QBs going through read progressions, and one that deals with QB ratings in a more realistic manner.

Mind you, these are just ideas for discussion... Possibilities... What could be, and not what should be.

The basic premise

There would still be icons used for passing, but they would appear one after the other, mimicking a QB going through his reads.

Example:

A basic play from a 3 WR set, with the X receiver running a quick out (read 1), the Y receiver running a curl route (read 2), and the Z receiver running a deep post (read 3).

Once the ball is hiked no icons are shown, but when the passing window opens for read 1, the icon pops up. Let's say that route is covered, so on to read 2, the curl route from the slot... Same thing, icon doesn't appear until the passing window opens... Etc.

More advanced use

Obviously that is very basic, but let's say the same play is called against a defense with just one safety deep. The QB sees this and knows beforehand that he might have a chance with the deep post. He then focuses on the pass rush instead of his first read, pump fakes to the curl route to draw the safety up, then lets fly to the deep post in single coverage.

Okay yes, you could still do this type of thing with the current icon based passing system, but let's factor in QB ratings.

QB awareness, composure, and scrambling ratings

Say we're running the same play but with a QB with low awareness, composure, and scramble rating. In this circumstance he drops back, but the icon over read 1 doesn't pop up due to the low awareness rating. So he goes on to the next progression, the curl route, only to have a different icon pop up than what was there presnap... All because of the low composure rating. By this time the pass rush in on, he scrambles outside the pocket as the play breaks down... WR Z comes back towards the line, and the QB sees him and throws him the ball, but a low scramble rating effects his accuracy outside the pocket and the ball sails high.



I kind of like the possibilities of this. I think it would add a little more depth and realism, without being a complete overhaul. I don't know, I haven't really fully thought it out, but just thought I'd bring it up here for discussion.

It kind of loses the idea of you reading the defense before hand, and you being solely responsible as to where your first read should be.

The windows popping up for in proper sequence makes the game very easy for you. Where you might have been looking for the deep route first , and totally missing out that the quick route was the route that was going to be open. It is like a guide making things simple for the gamer.

I think your idea is good for a training, but not live game play. Players need to be responsible for which WR should be the first read.

I feel the best way was to simply have the icon appear only on the WR your looking at, and that is it.

How to execute this is simple. Hold down the right trigger right when the ball is snapped. Hit the icon of the WR you want to look at, and follow it up by hitting his Icon again. Don't feel his is open then just hit the next icon of the WR who is your 2nd read.

It is real simple, and realistic. You will be totally responsible for making the right read at the snap of the ball. Also note for backs coming out of the backfield. Just his their icon to throw the ball.

The procedure I mentioned is only for routes being ran beyond the line of scrimmage, not backs flaring out of the backfield.

[spit_bubble]

Re: Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

It kind of loses the idea of you reading the defense before hand, and you being solely responsible as to where your first read should be...

I don't think you lose the necessity to read the defense. You still have to have some sense of who is open and what the defense is doing.

It basically just makes it easier to use playbooks you aren't familiar with.

...I feel the best way was to simply have the icon appear only on the WR your looking at, and that is it.

How to execute this is simple. Hold down the right trigger right when the ball is snapped. Hit the icon of the WR you want to look at, and follow it up by hitting his Icon again. Don't feel his is open then just hit the next icon of the WR who is your 2nd read.

It is real simple, and realistic...

I agree, the single WR being targeted is a lot more realistic, as it simulates who the QB is looking at... And could be programmed to look off safeties...

Though I think using the right stick would be a lot easier, just a quick flick in the direction of the receiver, and that receiver would be highlighted (by an icon, or whatever). And if that guy is covered, another quick flick to target a different WR... With a single pass button to deliver the ball...

And you could combine the two, that is this targeting method and this progression method, so that the progression happened automatically and targeted the reads for you... And as soon as you used the right stick it would override the automatic progression...



You could even separate the two, with an option to toggle the automatic progression on or off, so that if users wanted to go through the progressions themselves they could have that option.

[spit_bubble]

Re: Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

I agree, the single WR being targeted is a lot more realistic, as it simulates who the QB is looking at... And could be programmed to look off safeties...

Though I think using the right stick would be a lot easier, just a quick flick in the direction of the receiver, and that receiver would be highlighted (by an icon, or whatever). And if that guy is covered, another quick flick to target a different WR... With a single pass button to deliver the ball...

And for QBs with a low awareness rating you could make it impossible for them to target receivers under certain circumstances... Like if the WR has already run his route... Or if the QB has moved outside the pocket and the WR is on the other side of the field...

Whereas a QB with a high awareness rating would be able to target any receiver at any time.

[spit_bubble]

Re: Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

They could also introduce this new passing method as another option, and simply keep the old icon based passing, for the inevitable crowd of people who would bitch and moan about the new passing system.

And for those unaware, icon passing has been around since the very first Madden. Sure, certain designs have endured the test of time, and for good reason... But there's a lot about playing quarterback that hasn't been addressed in video games. I think we're about due here.

[SteboSSK]

Re: Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

All these ideas sound good on paper but overall it will make the game quite complicated and avoided the pass rush would be a pain in the ***. The last thing EA needs to do is change the passing controls and replace it with some new gimmick.

[misterkrabz]

Re: Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

All these ideas sound good on paper but overall it will make the game quite complicated and avoided the pass rush would be a pain in the ***. The last thing EA needs to do is change the passing controls and replace it with some new gimmick.

Disagree completely...IMO they need to do something other than what they're currently doing....passing in Madden is no more challenging than passing in Tecmo Bowl...it's like "Football For Dummies"....

[Broncos86]

Re: Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

The problems I have with this:

1) It takes away control from me.
2) This would dumb down passing even more. I'm no longer making the reads, my QB is making them for me. All I have to do is press the button when appropriate.

The current problem with passing two-fold:

1) WRs instantly know the ball is thrown and will adjust their route to make a catch.
2) There is no passing based on the route.
3) Ball trajectory is horrible.
4) WRs are not aggressive in body position.

The result is that you have players who can, at any moment, make a catch. We talk plenty about psychic DBs, but the WRs are just as bad. The issue is less about passing windows and more about DBs and WRs "seeing" the ball. That is to say, if my WR isn't looking for a pass, he shouldn't br making an attempt. Therefore, to fix passing:

1) Route-based passing. This will fix many of the issues.
2) Add true procedural ball awareness. If the WR isn't "looking" for the ball, he shouldn't make a play for it.
3) Add in an "alert" audible at the line for a WR to be ready for a quick pass in the event of a blitz. Build in real-world punishments to WRs who are hot-routed for this. A WR who is instantly looking at his QB with hands ready will not be running as clean a route, and shows his "hand" to the DB.
4) Fix ball trajectory. If we want to use the AWR rating, allow QBs with higher AWR to understand that he needs a proper trajectory on a pass to get it over a linebacker.
5) WRs need to do a better job in maintaining body position over the DBs. Better WRs need to use their physical talents to ensure they catch the ball (Larry Fitzgerald using his height and leaping ability).

[iBlievN5]

Re: Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

well for the progression based thing, we could have a pre-snap read mechanic, where you basically guess what the D is doing. R2 +L2 then R-Stick up for C3, down for man-blitz, etc.

[kbseven]

Re: Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

The problems I have with this:

1) It takes away control from me.
2) This would dumb down passing even more. I'm no longer making the reads, my QB is making them for me. All I have to do is press the button when appropriate.

The current problem with passing two-fold:

1) WRs instantly know the ball is thrown and will adjust their route to make a catch.
2) There is no passing based on the route.
3) Ball trajectory is horrible.
4) WRs are not aggressive in body position.

The result is that you have players who can, at any moment, make a catch. We talk plenty about psychic DBs, but the WRs are just as bad. The issue is less about passing windows and more about DBs and WRs "seeing" the ball. That is to say, if my WR isn't looking for a pass, he shouldn't br making an attempt. Therefore, to fix passing:

1) Route-based passing. This will fix many of the issues.
2) Add true procedural ball awareness. If the WR isn't "looking" for the ball, he shouldn't make a play for it.
3) Add in an "alert" audible at the line for a WR to be ready for a quick pass in the event of a blitz. Build in real-world punishments to WRs who are hot-routed for this. A WR who is instantly looking at his QB with hands ready will not be running as clean a route, and shows his "hand" to the DB.
4) Fix ball trajectory. If we want to use the AWR rating, allow QBs with higher AWR to understand that he needs a proper trajectory on a pass to get it over a linebacker.
5) WRs need to do a better job in maintaining body position over the DBs. Better WRs need to use their physical talents to ensure they catch the ball (Larry Fitzgerald using his height and leaping ability).

+1

something that would be interesting is if you could point out potential "blitzers" pre-snap. like you could tell your line to watch for a linebacker or a safety creeping. i dont know how they could do it, i think it would be interesting n help pass blocking some

[kbseven]

Re: Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

well for the progression based thing, we could have a pre-snap read mechanic, where you basically guess what the D is doing. R2 +L2 then R-Stick up for C3, down for man-blitz, etc.

this too
10 char

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

Well we agree on one thing.

We want something implemented that makes the passing game more enjoyable. What we currently have is prehistoric.

To the original OP. Right stick can be implemented also. They can actually add both methods, and let the game choose what he prefers.

[Argooos]

Re: Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

I feel the best way was to simply have the icon appear only on the WR your looking at, and that is it.

How to execute this is simple. Hold down the right trigger right when the ball is snapped. Hit the icon of the WR you want to look at, and follow it up by hitting his Icon again. Don't feel his is open then just hit the next icon of the WR who is your 2nd read.

It is real simple, and realistic. You will be totally responsible for making the right read at the snap of the ball. Also note for backs coming out of the backfield. Just his their icon to throw the ball.

The procedure I mentioned is only for routes being ran beyond the line of scrimmage, not backs flaring out of the backfield.

This is very similar to the way I envision passing in Madden:

Decide your primary read pre-snap (who your QB is going to be looking at after the ball is snapped - if you select no one then your QB is looking at no receiver in particular). That receiver's icon is highlighted (or everyone else's is greyed-out) and while that receiver is selected he is the only one you can throw to with your full accuracy. You can still throw to other receivers as normal, but depending on how good the quarterback is, the throw will likely be off-target.
You can then switch to a different receiver by pressing that receiver's button while holding the trigger (or some other button).
As long as you have a receiver selected, the defensive players may move towards that receiver and jump the route - but this of course allows you to look off your receiver and go for a big gain.

As far as I can tell, that's pretty much how real quarterbacks do it. They pick one player to look at when the play starts, then they move on to the next read if the first one is covered. Good Madden players will be able to go through several reads, while worst players will probably not be able to go through their receivers as quickly.