NHL 12 - Canadiens vs. Penguins (Full Game)

[ChaseB]

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[Money99]

Re: NHL 12 - Canadiens vs. Penguins (Full Game)

Thanks Chase!
The AI seems solid.

Makes it even more disappointing about the broken BaGM mode.

[pennywise]

Re: NHL 12 - Canadiens vs. Penguins (Full Game)

What difficulty was this played on? The first two Canadiens goals exposed some pretty brutal defensive AI.

The first one was a two-on-one where instead of taking away the passing lane the AI defender actually skated right over to the player without the puck. This essentially handed the puck carrier a breakaway.

The second goal was similar. Three Penguin defenders covering two Canadien forwards on the far side of the net while they watched the puck carrier walk out to the front of the net and score.

Not exactly encouraging.

[ChaseB]

What difficulty was this played on? The first two Canadiens goals exposed some pretty brutal defensive AI.

The first one was a two-on-one where instead of taking away the passing lane the AI defender actually skated right over to the player without the puck. This essentially handed the puck carrier a breakaway.

The second goal was similar. Three Penguin defenders covering two Canadien forwards on the far side of the net while they watched the puck carrier walk out to the front of the net and score.

Not exactly encouraging.

The Cole goal is interesting because the guy who tries to check him falls, which might have thrown off the coverage and given Cole the space coming from behind the net.

That said, the AI is definitely shaky in terms of defending guys with the puck below the circles, and coming off the boards and behind the net down low.

It was standard All-Star.

[Rogie Vachon]

Re: NHL 12 - Canadiens vs. Penguins (Full Game)

What difficulty was this played on? The first two Canadiens goals exposed some pretty brutal defensive AI.

The first one was a two-on-one where instead of taking away the passing lane the AI defender actually skated right over to the player without the puck. This essentially handed the puck carrier a breakaway.

The second goal was similar. Three Penguin defenders covering two Canadien forwards on the far side of the net while they watched the puck carrier walk out to the front of the net and score.

Not exactly encouraging.

On a two on one,....the Dman should be taking out the open player,.....and letting the goalie shut down the shooter.

That`s how goalies want it,.....we don`t want the puck carrier to even think about passing to the open guy,.....we want the puck carrier to be forced to shoot,.....it`s our job to stop the puck.

By playing the middle,the passing lane,......you don`t accomplish very much of anything,...the odds of stopping a pass is very low,the open guy is left open...going for the back door play that is the goalie`s worst nightmare,......and if the pass doesn`t come,the open guy is still there as a threat/decoy,...and that means the goalie has to respect that threat,...so that means hes got the shooter to worry about,and the backdoor guy,...and possibly a guy coming in late.

Dmen that play the middle on 2 on 1`s aren`t doing their goalies any favours at all,.......and when told how to play it,if they continue their evil ways,....they are despised by goalies one and all.

I haven`t seen the 2nd goal yet.....but I have seen some issues with defensive AI.

To my knowledge,the settings used for these games is at least AllStar,could be Super Star,....with default hardcore settings.

The hardcore settings aren`t hardcore enough for me,so I already know that I`ll be doing sliders again.

Another thing I might do,as I plan on doing some roster editing too.....is to increase defensive awareness,.....an across the board bump.
Of course I will be trying to use this category to achieve some separation between top NHL players,avg NHL players,AHL,CHL.......as well as some other tweaks/rollbacks/adjustments in other categories.

It`s a big task,.....general game play sliders,passing speeds,shot speeds,shot accuracy(which might not be as bad this year),goalie reaction speeds etc,fine tuning AI settings,....then roster editing,then evaluation of all the previous steps,and making adjustments if necessary,.....till I get what I should be getting,almost,right from the box.

[Rogie Vachon]

Re: NHL 12 - Canadiens vs. Penguins (Full Game)

OK,I guess I stand corrected on setting for this game video,...Chase says All Star/Normal ?

Good to know so I can evaluate.

Is the shoddy AI an All Star diff. issue? Is the AI better on Super Star?

[tyler289]

Re: NHL 12 - Canadiens vs. Penguins (Full Game)

Incredibly disappointing that they post-goal video goes immediately to the fans celebrating after the goal is scored. In no broadcast in history has that happened.

ESPECIALLY on the road.

Thanks for the videos, though. The gameplay does look acceptable, and I'm going to assume this is with no sliders.

[ChaseB]

Re: NHL 12 - Canadiens vs. Penguins (Full Game)

OK,I guess I stand corrected on setting for this game video,...Chase says All Star/Normal ?

Good to know so I can evaluate.

Is the shoddy AI an All Star diff. issue? Is the AI better on Super Star?

It's on hardcore as well, just the standard all-star hardcore. Sorry for the confusion.

[FBeaule04]

Re: NHL 12 - Canadiens vs. Penguins (Full Game)

The Cole goal is interesting because the guy who tries to check him falls, which might have thrown off the coverage and given Cole the space coming from behind the net.

That said, the AI is definitely shaky in terms of defending guys with the puck below the circles, and coming off the boards and behind the net down low.

It was standard All-Star.

Your video is making me sick to my stomach. I can't count how many time you get the zone just to see the D backing off and sweeping the ice like they are playing curling.

On one missed pass, you get to the puck while Paul Martin, instead of going to the puck is skating straight to the post and then, no break to get the icing. I've seen also a lot of skating in the zone to counter the "pinning on the board" by the AI when press.

There's also few things I saw that we're fine. You tried 2-3 times the "coming back to the slot from behind the net and shoot glove side" and it didn't work.

Only problem with that is the only time you tried it short side, it worked! Worse than that, on the Cole goal, that's where I expect Anticipation AI to get on. Staal fell trying to hit Cole. Usually, Malkin, who was covering Plekanec down low, would have see that and go for Cole to cut the comeback from the other side, leaving Cole to either cut in front of Letang or get the puck back around the board.

Not only, Malkin didn't do that, but even worse, Letang got stuck sweeping at the ice while wainting for the other winger to get down low. Even Staal, when near the goalie is stopping like someone hitting a brick wall and turning back while Cole takes the shot.

Either the dev team as no clue whatsoever how a defensive scheme works in hockey, either they don't have a clue how to program that. I've been dice by people here when I breakdown a video because there was no "gameplay footage" long enough to be sure it was like that.

This video just proved what I was saying this summer. The defensive AI programming is awful and the more we play, the more will find that kind of lapses from the AI. I hope I'm wrong...I'm really hoping I'm wrong.

Thanks for the video Chase. I would really like to see a video when you're locked as a player to see how your AI teammates react to the play.

[pennywise]

Re: NHL 12 - Canadiens vs. Penguins (Full Game)

On a two on one,....the Dman should be taking out the open player,.....and letting the goalie shut down the shooter.

That`s how goalies want it,.....we don`t want the puck carrier to even think about passing to the open guy,.....we want the puck carrier to be forced to shoot,.....it`s our job to stop the puck.

By playing the middle,the passing lane,......you don`t accomplish very much of anything,...the odds of stopping a pass is very low,the open guy is left open...going for the back door play that is the goalie`s worst nightmare,......and if the pass doesn`t come,the open guy is still there as a threat/decoy,...and that means the goalie has to respect that threat,...so that means hes got the shooter to worry about,and the backdoor guy,...and possibly a guy coming in late.

Dmen that play the middle on 2 on 1`s aren`t doing their goalies any favours at all,.......and when told how to play it,if they continue their evil ways,....they are despised by goalies one and all.

No. Just no. What you're describing is a textbook way of *not* playing a two-on-one defensively. Over-committing to either the puck carrier or his partner is going to leave your goalie out to dry one way or the other. The proper play is to prevent the pass as best you can without allowing the puck carrier to waltz in on a breakaway.

Read here: http://www.hockeyshare.com/blog/hock...sected-part-2/

What you're recommending ( and what the AI did ) is a textbook example of the "Weak-Side Coverage Mistake" described in the article. You'll never see any high-level hockey player play a two-on-one that way.

[Money99]

Re: NHL 12 - Canadiens vs. Penguins (Full Game)

No. Just no. What you're describing is a textbook way of *not* playing a two-on-one defensively. Over-committing to either the puck carrier or his partner is going to leave your goalie out to dry one way or the other. The proper play is to prevent the pass as best you can without allowing the puck carrier to waltz in on a breakaway.

Read here: http://www.hockeyshare.com/blog/hock...sected-part-2/

What you're recommending ( and what the AI did ) is a textbook example of the "Weak-Side Coverage Mistake" described in the article. You'll never see any high-level hockey player play a two-on-one that way.

Yeah, the dman didn't play that 2-on-1 like he should have.
But I'd like to see the replay to see which defenseman it was. Perhaps it was one of Pitt's poorer defenders? I'll have to take a look again.
If it was a lower rated dman, then I can overlook this as it would help show a difference between the elite defenders and borderline AHL players.

[FBeaule04]

Re: NHL 12 - Canadiens vs. Penguins (Full Game)

No. Just no. What you're describing is a textbook way of *not* playing a two-on-one defensively. Over-committing to either the puck carrier or his partner is going to leave your goalie out to dry one way or the other. The proper play is to prevent the pass as best you can without allowing the puck carrier to waltz in on a breakaway.

Read here: http://www.hockeyshare.com/blog/hock...sected-part-2/

What you're recommending ( and what the AI did ) is a textbook example of the "Weak-Side Coverage Mistake" described in the article. You'll never see any high-level hockey player play a two-on-one that way.

Rogie is right, the goalie will always ask the D to avoid the pass at all cost. I didn't tought it was necessary to explain that in the process, the D will have to put is body in position to cut a pass and make a play on the puck carrier if this one as an hesitation, I thought that was evident to start with.

You'll never see a D-man get to the other guy on a 2 on 1. Like I said, the guy will put himself in between and when it's time to take a decision, will play the pass and let the goalie have a shot.

Problem with that in the EA sports title is the fact that goalie plays 1 on 1 poorly (a quick deke and it's a goal) while making a good pass on a 2 on 1 would usually end in a miss pass and no shot.

[pennywise]

Re: NHL 12 - Canadiens vs. Penguins (Full Game)

Rogie is right, the goalie will always ask the D to avoid the pass at all cost. I didn't tought it was necessary to explain that in the process, the D will have to put is body in position to cut a pass and make a play on the puck carrier if this one as an hesitation, I thought that was evident to start with.

You'll never see a D-man get to the other guy on a 2 on 1. Like I said, the guy will put himself in between and when it's time to take a decision, will play the pass and let the goalie have a shot.

Problem with that in the EA sports title is the fact that goalie plays 1 on 1 poorly (a quick deke and it's a goal) while making a good pass on a 2 on 1 would usually end in a miss pass and no shot.

But he's saying the AI played it correctly by leaving the puck carrier to do as he pleases while taking out the potential pass recipient aggressively. That's just plain wrong.

If I'm wrong on what he meant then I apologize, but that's what I get from reading his comment.

[plaidchuck]

Re: NHL 12 - Canadiens vs. Penguins (Full Game)

Yep not buying this until it's dirt cheap used on some online site. I honestly thought the defensive AI could at least not get any worse but EA never ceases to amaze me..

[Rogie Vachon]

Re: NHL 12 - Canadiens vs. Penguins (Full Game)

No. Just no. What you're describing is a textbook way of *not* playing a two-on-one defensively. Over-committing to either the puck carrier or his partner is going to leave your goalie out to dry one way or the other. The proper play is to prevent the pass as best you can without allowing the puck carrier to waltz in on a breakaway.

Read here: http://www.hockeyshare.com/blog/hock...sected-part-2/

What you're recommending ( and what the AI did ) is a textbook example of the "Weak-Side Coverage Mistake" described in the article. You'll never see any high-level hockey player play a two-on-one that way.

I`ve played goal at the elite level,REAL HOCKEY, for 40 years ,man......that is a minor hockey coaching tip if I`ve ever seen one.
You`ll never hear one elite goalie say to play it that way,...not one......or a coach that knows anything about defence,......not a one will say it.
one shooter,minimal options.

Of course it`s a bit more nuanced than just make a bee line for the open guy,.....the situation matters.You may start out initially playing the middle,on a fairly standard 2 on 1,but there comes a point when the open guy needs to be eliminated.
It takes experience and good coaching,and trust between goalies and their defence........
Ignore it and you`re picking pucks out of the back of the net,....all night long.

You`ll also notice the tags where it says the advice is for youth level hockey.

Bah,..it`s even worse,.....it`s from Hockey USA