Effective Runners: Can you run in the middle without WR motion inside?

[iamwubbie]

For the guys who run well on All-Madden, are you able to run up the middle consistently well without motioning a WR inside?

Before I made any running game adjustments, I was running 3.5 ypc with Frank Gore, mostly on inside handoffs.

After I made running game adjustments, I started motioning my WR to the middle of the line, audibling to a toss or counter when the defense started to pinch their linemen. I've also been holding the truck stick forward when I see a lane open up. This has resulted in me having 150+ yards rushing every game and about a 4.7 ypc average. I've broken off big games up the middle, as well as on the toss plays (after motioning the WR to the other side of the field, taking the CB with him). Just the other day, I bulldozed the Ravens and Redskins with this strategy.

I'm happy I've found success running the ball, but I only run the Iso play, HB Toss, and HB Counter from I-Form: Pro. And it just feels cheap for me to run the same 3 plays over again, and it feels cheap to use the WR as a lead blocker inside.

I don't like to play like this. If it's possible to run "legitimately" I'll discard this and learn to run in a more "fair" fashion.

Any thoughts (and tips if there's a "better" way to be running)?

[twimstaxs]

Re: Effective Runners: Can you run in the middle without WR motion inside?

For the guys who run well on All-Madden, are you able to run up the middle consistently well without motioning a WR inside?

Before I made any running game adjustments, I was running 3.5 ypc with Frank Gore, mostly on inside handoffs.

After I made running game adjustments, I started motioning my WR to the middle of the line, audibling to a toss or counter when the defense started to pinch their linemen. I've also been holding the truck stick forward when I see a lane open up. This has resulted in me having 150+ yards rushing every game and about a 4.7 ypc average. I've broken off big games up the middle, as well as on the toss plays (after motioning the WR to the other side of the field, taking the CB with him). Just the other day, I bulldozed the Ravens and Redskins with this strategy.

I'm happy I've found success running the ball, but I only run the Iso play, HB Toss, and HB Counter from I-Form: Pro. And it just feels cheap for me to run the same 3 plays over again, and it feels cheap to use the WR as a lead blocker inside.

I don't like to play like this. If it's possible to run "legitimately" I'll discard this and learn to run in a more "fair" fashion.

Any thoughts (and tips if there's a "better" way to be running)?

There is nothing wrong with running the same run plays because how many different run plays can one team run right? The only issue I have with your strategy is the WR in the middle of the line. That is just ridiculous. You need to run formations that have more TEs if you need more blockers. If the DL pinches NEVER run up the middle. Toss it outside or run off tackle. If the line pinches I usually audible to a quick pass play.

[iamwubbie]

Re: Effective Runners: Can you run in the middle without WR motion inside?

There is nothing wrong with running the same run plays because how many different run plays can one team run right? The only issue I have with your strategy is the WR in the middle of the line. That is just ridiculous. You need to run formations that have more TEs if you need more blockers. If the DL pinches NEVER run up the middle. Toss it outside or run off tackle. If the line pinches I usually audible to a quick pass play.

It isn't so much that the DL pinches, but rather, the blockers don't occupy their man the way they should. Often times, a defender will shoot the gap and stop me for negative yardage.

The ONLY thing I haven't really tried is to pinch my offensive linemen inside. I was thinking that if the offensive line's blocking scheme is set to aggressive (which I do every run play), they're going to spread outward. I DO see daylight, but then all of a sudden a linemen or linebacker will shoot the gap or shed their blocker.

[twimstaxs]

Re: Effective Runners: Can you run in the middle without WR motion inside?

It isn't so much that the DL pinches, but rather, the blockers don't occupy their man the way they should. Often times, a defender will shoot the gap and stop me for negative yardage.

The ONLY thing I haven't really tried is to pinch my offensive linemen inside. I was thinking that if the offensive line's blocking scheme is set to aggressive (which I do every run play), they're going to spread outward. I DO see daylight, but then all of a sudden a linemen or linebacker will shoot the gap or shed their blocker.

The D will adjust to your style of play if you run a lot so you will just have to expect that. I run at least 30 times a game and sometimes I will only get 80 yards rushing and sometimes I will get 150. Just depends on the defense and when you are running the ball. If you just want to run every down you will get shut down.

[TNT713]

Re: Effective Runners: Can you run in the middle without WR motion inside?

There is nothing wrong with running the same run plays because how many different run plays can one team run right?

Joe Gibbs coached Washington Redskins teams only had 3 run plays. Joe Theisman usually entered the game with only a 6 play game plan. Different formations, same 6 plays.

Imagine having to defend the same 6 plays all game.

Later

[Jarodd21]

Re: Effective Runners: Can you run in the middle without WR motion inside?

I tell a lot of guys to start checking out the replay of every run play they do to see if there was a cutback they could have made into a different hole if the original hole they were suppose to run into was clogged up. This will help you get a better feel for how to cut it back when it looks like that. A lot of people make the mistake of just crashing into the hole the play was designed to go even if it looks clogged up. Work on your cutbacks and you will become good at running inside. Check every replay and you will see that it was a cutback you could have made but you made the wrong move after the snap. Also flip the play around if it looks like its going to get stuffed when you come to the line of scrimmage..

[Juiceman612]

Re: Effective Runners: Can you run in the middle without WR motion inside?

I tell a lot of guys to start checking out the replay of every run play they do to see if there was a cutback they could have made into a different hole if the original hole they were suppose to run into was clogged up. This will help you get a better feel for how to cut it back when it looks like that. A lot of people make the mistake of just crashing into the hole the play was designed to go even if it looks clogged up. Work on your cutbacks and you will become good at running inside. Check every replay and you will see that it was a cutback you could have made but you made the wrong move after the snap. Also flip the play around if it looks like its going to get stuffed when you come to the line of scrimmage..

I became a much better runner overall by doing this. Even though I thought I was hitting the right hole I realized that I should have gone another direction. In some cases I wasn't even following the FB like I thought I was. It really only takes a few replays to hone in on what you could be doing better. Good advice.

[iamwubbie]

Re: Effective Runners: Can you run in the middle without WR motion inside?

I tell a lot of guys to start checking out the replay of every run play they do to see if there was a cutback they could have made into a different hole if the original hole they were suppose to run into was clogged up. This will help you get a better feel for how to cut it back when it looks like that. A lot of people make the mistake of just crashing into the hole the play was designed to go even if it looks clogged up. Work on your cutbacks and you will become good at running inside. Check every replay and you will see that it was a cutback you could have made but you made the wrong move after the snap. Also flip the play around if it looks like its going to get stuffed when you come to the line of scrimmage..

That's a good idea.

(BTW Jarodd, your sliders have given me some fantastic results for franchise mode! Thanks for all your hard work!

I've never been the most serious player, and have been stuck at the all-pro level for the longest time. But for some reason, your All-Madden sliders have made things realistic for me. Challenging, but not frustrating. I'm starting to win a bit too much though, and I take that as a sign that I'm getting better. I'm not there yet, but I'm getting close to using your Challenge sliders.)

[Jarodd21]

Re: Effective Runners: Can you run in the middle without WR motion inside?

That's a good idea.

(BTW Jarodd, your sliders have given me some fantastic results for franchise mode! Thanks for all your hard work!

I've never been the most serious player, and have been stuck at the all-pro level for the longest time. But for some reason, your All-Madden sliders have made things realistic for me. Challenging, but not frustrating. I'm starting to win a bit too much though, and I take that as a sign that I'm getting better. I'm not there yet, but I'm getting close to using your Challenge sliders.)

Thanks man.. You should have said something in my thread. I could have helped you out a long time ago with some running tips or adjusting the sliders until you got better at running.. Yeah if you're are winning too much thats definitely a sign that you are getting better and you can start to slowly tweak the sliders up some in the areas that are getting too easy for you. Let me know how your next few games go and if you need any help adjusting from wherever your at..

[Jarodd21]

Re: Effective Runners: Can you run in the middle without WR motion inside?

I became a much better runner overall by doing this. Even though I thought I was hitting the right hole I realized that I should have gone another direction. In some cases I wasn't even following the FB like I thought I was. It really only takes a few replays to hone in on what you could be doing better. Good advice.

Yeah this definitely helped me on Madden 11 with all the suction tackling that you had to deal with on there. I started checking all the replays and would get mad at myself for missing a cutback and a big opportunity to gain some positive yards so I kept working at it until I got good at reading the blocking and hitting a quick cutback as soon as I seen an opening.. It was an easy transition to Madden 12 with the elimination of suction tackling. I had to actually make the CPUs run defense harder then I had it on 11 to slow me down because of that.

[billsmetalbooze]

Re: Effective Runners: Can you run in the middle without WR motion inside?

i don't play All-Madden but with All-Pro human and CPU Run D (or whatever it's called) at 100.

i can run consistently up the middle.

patience with blocks is the key. but maybe All-Madden is way beyond my personal sliders. you have to wait for the centre and guards to pick up a man then burst.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Effective Runners: Can you run in the middle without WR motion inside?

Sounds like you're just cheating the ridiculously predictable pre-snap AI. I fail to see how this is any less "cheese" than the things that online gamers complain about, but in this case you're just taking advantage of a helpless computer AI opponent. Just my two cents.

You can audible and hot route your way to victory against the AI easily on any EA Sports football game since 2005.

[twimstaxs]

Re: Effective Runners: Can you run in the middle without WR motion inside?

Sounds like you're just cheating the ridiculously predictable pre-snap AI. I fail to see how this is any less "cheese" than the things that online gamers complain about, but in this case you're just taking advantage of a helpless computer AI opponent. Just my two cents.

You can audible and hot route your way to victory against the AI easily on any EA Sports football game since 2005.

Not with the right set of sliders you can't.

[Jarodd21]

Re: Effective Runners: Can you run in the middle without WR motion inside?

Not with the right set of sliders you can't.

Especially with some tough All-Madden sliders. You'll be on the tail end of a beatdown using that strategy for a whole game.. They really tightened up in that area on this Madden. It was definitely broken on some past Madden where you can exploit the AI like that. You can still do that on All-Pro though..

[iamwubbie]

Re: Effective Runners: Can you run in the middle without WR motion inside?

Sounds like you're just cheating the ridiculously predictable pre-snap AI. I fail to see how this is any less "cheese" than the things that online gamers complain about, but in this case you're just taking advantage of a helpless computer AI opponent. Just my two cents.

You can audible and hot route your way to victory against the AI easily on any EA Sports football game since 2005.

I think the audibles are fine. If I don't like my playcall up the middle, I'll audible to a playcall to a toss or counter. To me, that sounds acceptable. Most offenses have 1, 2 playcalls at the huddle, and the QB chooses what play to run based on the defense, while having the ability to audible out.

However, the WR motion inside is incredibly lame. It appears that it IS possible to run the ball without doing that, so I'm going to discontinue that practice. BTW, when I start playing people online, how do I stop people when they do it to me? Pinch the defensive line? Have the cornerback follow the WR motion?

I figured out that pinching the line seems to work better for running the ball inside. I get runs of 0-4 yards pretty consistently, but not as many negative yardage plays (which is what was REALLY worrying to me).

But I find when I pinch the line, run inside, there's normally only one or two holes and I am still learning which hole I'm supposed to hit.