This game makes no sense.

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

I swear logic must have been left outof thisgame in favor of random number generators.

Whether you drop the ball or not. Random.

Whether a lineman holds his block or not. Random.

Whether a guy gets injured. Random.

Whether a guy fumbles. Random.

Whether a runner breaks a tackle or not. Random.

Whether a guy progresses or regresses. Random.

Whether you win a sim or not. Random.

It just seems there is no logic at all. I cannot seem to find logic in some of the things in this game.

I just honestly cannot find a logical conclusion to some results in this game.

I can't be the only one who sees this sometimes.

[Phreezy P]

Re: This game makes no sense.

From my knowledge they actually do use a dice roll technology based on ratings. I think they should get a HOF NFL player with years of experience and knowledge to help them with the logic one day so they can totally revamp it. Maybe next year, there could be more situational logic so it works correctly.

[KBLover]

Re: This game makes no sense.

There's a lot of randomness, and I think what's worse is that there's not enough individual things to impact it player by player - so you can get the feel of "oh this guy does XYZ more often". This really shows up in progression, imo.

The game does need to take more things into account even when determining outcomes by randomness. Drops due to contact should consider how solid the contact is. Hard contact should put a huge "penalty" to the "chance" while a graze shouldn't do a thing. A strong TE should have a high "chance" to at least fall forward when tackled by a smaller guy.

Same for fumbling - a strong back probably is not going to fumble unless hit solidly and "hat on the ball". Need a "strip ball" rating or such because I'm willing to bet some defenders are better at it/attempt to do it more often.

I agree, some of these logical things (which impact the chances of events in real life) are left out (or are too weak in impact), and with all the ratings so bunched up, things become 50/50 too often (or otherwise don't feel as though an individual player vs player is making the difference - more that it could have happened with any match up).

[Broncos86]

Re: This game makes no sense.

What do you think those ratings are for? Did you think they were numbers no good reason?

Many aspects of Madden are algorithms of some kind. Weighted numbers, boolean, logic trees, etc. It's all math, behind the scenes.

[Calipup]

Re: This game makes no sense.

Aren't sports random to begin with? Isn't LIFE as a whole all random?


Whether you drop the ball or not. Random. WRs all the time drop easy passes.

Whether a lineman holds his block or not. Random. Yes I can see this as random, but it's all ratings.

Whether a guy gets injured. Random. This is random in real life too? So your point is?

Whether a guy fumbles. Random. Carry rating. Power of hit. Real life fumbles are random too. Madden isn't to the realistic point of having hands punch out the ball and such yet.

Whether a runner breaks a tackle or not. Random. Yes this is random, but ratings play into this.

Whether a guy progresses or regresses. Random. Well mostly this is random, but younger players will progress (as long as they get some playing time) and older players will regress

Whether you win a sim or not. Random. Well of course that's random. It takes into account each team's ratings and then sims an outcome.


Madden is all math. It takes ratings into account, and some other factors, gives %'s for different outcomes, and one is picked.

Tell me, how would you make a sports game without random outcomes? It's impossible. If there were no random outcomes, all passes would be accurate or inaccurate. Pertaining to basketball, Kevin Durant would make all his baskets or miss them all. In Baseball, Pujols will either swing or miss all the time.

[KBLover]

Re: This game makes no sense.

Tell me, how would you make a sports game without random outcomes? It's impossible. If there were no random outcomes, all passes would be accurate or inaccurate. Pertaining to basketball, Kevin Durant would make all his baskets or miss them all. In Baseball, Pujols will either swing or miss all the time.

I think his point is more that there's too little to influence the randomness, at least that's how I interpret it.

To use your Pujols example, an in-depth baseball game will have his BABIP, contact chance, and power behind the swing/hit based on pitch type, velocity, location, what he was looking for, and what timing he had. Then throw in the positioning of the fielders, the jump the outfielders get, their abilities (range, throwing arm, etc), and then the speed of Pujols to see if he decided to take an extra base, if he makes it, and so on.

There's a lot of things to influence the randomness there. If it was just a coin flip - that's still random, but it's not realistic.

It is pretty much impossible to have a sports game without randomness, agreed, but there's differing quality of random outcomes and how they are determined. If the randomness in a baseball game had Pujols hit .210 with 10 HR and Eckstein hit .340 with 40 HR - I think there would be a post like this on that game's forum...

[Cavicchi]

Re: This game makes no sense.

"This game makes no sense."

Well, there are times I absolutely agree with that statement. One recent event had a WR with 87 speed running neck and neck with Tramon Williams, 93 speed. And this is with speed threshold of zero. Accleleration for WR was lower than speed, 85. Tramon has 95 acceleration.

[WhoCares?]

Re: This game makes no sense.

I can tell you one thing that isn't random

Injury Timeouts.

Whenever I am playing a no-huddle, go for it on every 4th down cheeser, They always get extra time before halftime or the end of the game because I get charged a timeout because my defender gets hurt.

It always seems to happen when there is less than 1 minute on the clock, and my opponent only has one or zero timeouts to stop the clock.

[WhoCares?]

Re: This game makes no sense.

Also regarding the random logic.

Why doesn't the game award logical or good decisions.

Last night I stopped a guy twice on 4th down and long in the redzone when a field goal would have been the most logical choice.

On the very next possession my RB fumbles it both times and my opponents bad decisions ended up benefiting him with 14 points.

How hard would it be for EA to increase a defenses overall rating when an opponent goes for it on 4th down on their own 20 yard line, or decrease the likelyhood of a fumble after your competitor gets stopped after going for it on 4th and 17 when they are only down 4 points with a quarter of the game remaining?

The game doesn't seem to punish people that make bad or "cheese" choices.

[pegout]

Re: This game makes no sense.

Also regarding the random logic.

Why doesn't the game award logical or good decisions.

Last night I stopped a guy twice on 4th down and long in the redzone when a field goal would have been the most logical choice.

On the very next possession my RB fumbles it both times and my opponents bad decisions ended up benefiting him with 14 points.

How hard would it be for EA to increase a defenses overall rating when an opponent goes for it on 4th down on their own 20 yard line, or decrease the likelyhood of a fumble after your competitor gets stopped after going for it on 4th and 17 when they are only down 4 points with a quarter of the game remaining?

The game doesn't seem to punish people that make bad or "cheese" choices.

there is a button to cover the ball

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: This game makes no sense.

I swear logic must have been left outof thisgame in favor of random number generators.

Whether you drop the ball or not. Random.

Whether a lineman holds his block or not. Random.

Whether a guy gets injured. Random.

Whether a guy fumbles. Random.

Whether a runner breaks a tackle or not. Random.

Whether a guy progresses or regresses. Random.

Whether you win a sim or not. Random.

It just seems there is no logic at all. I cannot seem to find logic in some of the things in this game.

I just honestly cannot find a logical conclusion to some results in this game.

I can't be the only one who sees this sometimes.

A lot of what you mentioned ia random in real life, so I'm not sure what your point is?

A WR doesn't drop a pass on purpose it's random, and the same could be said for almost everything you mentoined.

It all happens by the mistake by the players, and its random.

What you wrote:

Whether you drop the ball or not. Random. "The same as in real life"

Whether a lineman holds his block or not. Random. "The same as in real life"

Whether a guy gets injured. Random. "The same as in real life"

Whether a guy fumbles. Random. "The same as in real life"

Whether a runner breaks a tackle or not. Random. "The same as in real life"

Whether a guy progresses or regresses. Random. "Not the same as real life"


1 out of 6 is not random. My apologies but I'm just not seeing what your beeing about?

[Cavicchi]

Re: This game makes no sense.

Well, what doesn't make sense to me is a 5'9" CB with a jump rating of 81 jumping in the air higher than Calvin Johnson!

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

Re: This game makes no sense.

My point wasn't that random is necessarily bad. This is slighly a rant for which I apologize but I find good points here as well.

I made a post in the wishlist forum about drops. They make no sense. Yes, people drop passes in real life, but many of them are influenced in some way by the defense or the way the ball was thrown.

In the game, maybe its the lack of animations, but drops make no sense. I can throw a pass to Stevie Johnson on a curl route and he will be gently tackled but drop the ball. On the very next play I could throw to David Nelson over the middle and have him get up ended, in mid air, the moment he touches the ball and he will come down with it.

I know the game is a bunch of algorithms and calculations but for some reason, either I am not understanding ratings correctly, or the random numbers have a far greater weight than they should over actual physical and visible factors.

Like I said, many of the results to me make no sense.

Another one is the power move. Kyle Williams more often than not will falll flat on his face if I power move, but if I swim move he blows past the C/G.

I have had more fun with this Madden than any other in recent memory but the more I play it the more the paint starts to peel.

[KBLover]

Re: This game makes no sense.

I know the game is a bunch of algorithms and calculations but for some reason, either I am not understanding ratings correctly, or the random numbers have a far greater weight than they should over actual physical and visible factors.

The problem is not the weight of random numbers, it's the lack of things that influence them. Your contact-on-catch example is an illustration of this. All contact probably has the same modifier. That's obviously not correct. Getting whacked hard enough to flip over should be more likely to cause a drop than getting hit with a routine or even glancing tackle/hit.

That's what the problem is, not that the random numbers are influencing the catch probability. The game does not account for enough factors to influence the base chance set by the ratings.

But the only way to keep things varied is going to be with random numbers - otherwise it's an always or nothing situation.

[maademperor]

Re: This game makes no sense.

I just started playing and I feel the OP.

I just cant believe that for whatever numbers they use to determine the effects of a number of collisions/events, wieght and strength dont seem to be involved and many other ratings seem to get thrown out (or dont appply?) when in situations like the catch vs drop scenario.

unfortunately, I think we are asking for too much from a $60 piece of software made by a company that is very much more concerned with its bottom line than the true quality of the product...