Create a player 101

[johnriii]

I know this may be a really stupid question, but when creating PITCHERS, the higher the rating, the more effective they are on that attribute? I play EXCLUSIVELY cpu vs cpu, so I have no personal control over the pitcher. here's what I'm running into: I create a pitcher with a 85 BB attribute, and all 3-4 of his pitches have a control attribute of at least 80. then he promptly goes out and walks six batters in 6 innings. next game, 4 batters in 3 innings. next game, 7 batters in five innings. see where this is going? so I check the "elite" pitchers (verlander, holliday, Lee, etc) and I believe all of them have a BB attribute of 80 or lower. is it possible I have it backwards? or does other attributes contribute overall to the control of the pitches? Is there a thread that talks specifically about how the attributes work? thanks for any help that any of you can provide.

[Cavicchi]

Re: Create a player 101

I know this may be a really stupid question, but when creating PITCHERS, the higher the rating, the more effective they are on that attribute? I play EXCLUSIVELY cpu vs cpu, so I have no personal control over the pitcher. here's what I'm running into: I create a pitcher with a 85 BB attribute, and all 3-4 of his pitches have a control attribute of at least 80. then he promptly goes out and walks six batters in 6 innings. next game, 4 batters in 3 innings. next game, 7 batters in five innings. see where this is going? so I check the "elite" pitchers (verlander, holliday, Lee, etc) and I believe all of them have a BB attribute of 80 or lower. is it possible I have it backwards? or does other attributes contribute overall to the control of the pitches? Is there a thread that talks specifically about how the attributes work? thanks for any help that any of you can provide.

I believe Verlander is at 78 and both Lee and Halladay are over 80. The higher BB number should mean better control, such as with Halladay and Lee.

[johnriii]

Re: Create a player 101

that's what I thought too, but my created pitchers don't seem to understand that. even the Hits attribute, which a lot of the aces are in the low to high 70's. Not sure if any pitchers are over 85 on the hits attribute or HR attribute. again, I assume the higher the number, the more effective they are. so in theory, a 90 HR rating for a pitcher would mean they rarely give up the long ball. but I'm sure fatigue, pitch placement, etc may play a part on THAT attribute.

[Knight165]

Re: Create a player 101

that's what I thought too, but my created pitchers don't seem to understand that. even the Hits attribute, which a lot of the aces are in the low to high 70's. Not sure if any pitchers are over 85 on the hits attribute or HR attribute. again, I assume the higher the number, the more effective they are. so in theory, a 90 HR rating for a pitcher would mean they rarely give up the long ball. but I'm sure fatigue, pitch placement, etc may play a part on THAT attribute.

Pitching in game?

Your individual pitch attributes...not the /9 have the effect on that.
The /9(except stamina and clutch...those are for both) are mostly for simmed games.

M.K.
Knight165

[Cavicchi]

Re: Create a player 101

Pitching in game?

Your individual pitch attributes...not the /9 have the effect on that.
The /9(except stamina and clutch...those are for both) are mostly for simmed games.

M.K.
Knight165

So shouldn't a pitcher with control ratings (individual pitch types) at 80 or more have good control?

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Create a player 101

There is a lot of randomness with cpu vs cpu games. I have a season going using OSFM rosters with the pitch edits. Over 350 games played. I have seen many top rated pitchers struggle with control, and also have high ERAs. Verlander and Halladay come to mind.

However, when you look at the league leaders there are also guys you would consider stars that have pitched very well. Beckett and Lincecum, for instance.

I think if you continue with your created pitchers, things will even out over time. The better players will eventually rise to the top over the course of a season. That has been my experience so far, at least.

[IK720]

Re: Create a player 101

So shouldn't a pitcher with control ratings (individual pitch types) at 80 or more have good control?

Yea that is how it should work.. Strange you are walking people that often with good control ratings. Maybe try a larger sample size?

[rjackson]

Re: Create a player 101

Id look at the sliders. For cpu vs cpu games, the default sliders work well.

[nomo17k]

Re: Create a player 101

I was writing a somewhat lengthy response with what I think is going on about the walks and those ratings, but my notebook just overheated and shutdown... and I lost the damn post!! I need a trip to a mental health professional to overcome this sense of loss so I'll be back later with my attempt again...

[johnriii]

Re: Create a player 101

[QUOTE=nomo17k;2043801684]I was writing a somewhat lengthy response with what I think is going on about the walks and those ratings, but my notebook just overheated and shutdown... and I lost the damn post!! I need a trip to a mental health professional to overcome this sense of loss so I'll be back later with my attempt again...[/QUOt

Thx, nomo!!

[nomo17k]

Re: Create a player 101

I actually wanted to know more about how individual Pitch Control ratings work in conjunction with BB/9, etc., so I got some test games in for this purpose but got side-tracked (no, not because of wife/kids/work/xbox/drugs/alcohol/dog/cat, none of which I have). I only got half-baked impressions out of those so in order not to mislead, I'm just going to talk about anecdotal stuff here, basically for food for thought...

My observation so far is that BB/9 and individual Pitch Control ratings don't necessarily lead to "expected" effect of controlling the amount of walks. I think the reasons are (1) some pitches are harder to control than others, e.g., in-game description explicitly says that CB is hard to control, which is in line with our own experiences... remember how often the threads pop up about how to use CB effectively in this game; and (2) those ratings (BB/9 and Pitch Control) are not as sensitive to create a wide array of control/command abilities that we see in real life... what I mean is that wen you take some random pitcher and give him zero ratings for BB/9 and control doesn't automatically turn him into Carlos Marmol. The opposite is true, giving him 99 for all these ratings doesn't turn him into Roy Halladay.

(And to a lesser extent perhaps, that CPU batters have better discipline and ability to pick up pitches to put in play/foul off also matter.... since when those things happen the at-bat won't be long enough to get to ball four.)

A hobby of mine is to try to simulate a pitcher with a very dominant pitch (or two) but has a rather poor control/command. Specifically, Nolan Ryan (used his MLB 10 ratings) and Hideo Nomo here. At their hey days, their stats lines are characterized by K/9 > 9, and BB/9 of about 4.5... So if each pitches 200 IP for a season, you'd see something like 100 BB and 200 SO. SCEA tends to give this kind of pitchers a BB/9 rating of about 50 (and a K/9 of close to 100).

They have quite different pitch selections, so the comparison is not exactly apple to apple... it's more like Amtrak to NJ Transit. But anyways, Ryan I believe had 4SFB, 12CV, SL, and 2SFB. Nomo, I gave 4SFB, FRK, and SPL. Their individual pitch control ratings are roughly similar.

In the most recent seasons, their stats in CPU vs. CPU games look like this:

Ryan 15-9, 3.79 ERA, 206.1 IP, 197 H, 100 BB, 201 SO
Nomo 7-5, 3.29 ERA, 150.2 IP, 148 H, 39 BB, 120 SO

(This is only one season, in the latter case only 3/4, but I've tinkered with the ratings to do better job of simulating their walk rate but the stats roughly come out similar no matter what I did. My point is that it's not small sample size.)

Ryan's line I'd say is pretty well done (though I want to see him dominate more, especially in the K department). But Nomo issues too few walks, and in fact is quite good at limiting them.

I wanted to make him wilder to produce more walks without compromising his ability to go for Ks, so I've tried both minimizing/maximizing BB/9 and Pitch Control ratings to see how they affect things.

The result was that I couldn't change the number of walks that much!!

So this leads to my point (2) above... that rating change alone probably doesn't change pitcher's propensity to walk batters. Perhaps, even at zero ratings, pitchers don't become wild enough like some pitchers in real life are... and/or perhaps CPU hitters are so good that even when the pitchers are crazy wild, they don't miss pitches when they come in the strike zone, so they put into play before they walk anyways.

However, Ryan did walk a fairly realistic amount of batters, so it is possible for pitchers to be wild.

What's the difference?? I'd say it's pitch selection... my point (1) above.

Ryan has a huge 12-6 CV that he often uses. But in the game, it's one of harder pitches to command, so he often gets into trouble by relying on the pitch too often. I've seen him digging his own hole by throwing a tad too many of them. I don't know if FRK/SPL is harder to command in the game, but it probably is easier, so Nomo didn't get himself into trouble, although about 40% of his pitches are FRK/SPL.

And I tend to think this is not an isolated incident about Ryan... another example is Roy Halladay who ralphie above also cited to play rather poorly in the game. I believe Halladay also has a big sweeping CB or slurve which he often throws in the game. IRL he only issues 1 - 2 walks in 9 innings and rated accordingly in the game, but I think he's very mediocre in that department in CPU vs. CPU games.

So I'd say check your pitchers' pitch selection. If he has a dominant pitch he relies on that is known to be difficult to command (in the game), that could be the reason why he walks more batters than he should.

[johnriii]

Re: Create a player 101

I actually wanted to know more about how individual Pitch Control ratings work in conjunction with BB/9, etc., so I got some test games in for this purpose but got side-tracked (no, not because of wife/kids/work/xbox/drugs/alcohol/dog/cat, none of which I have). I only got half-baked impressions out of those so in order not to mislead, I'm just going to talk about anecdotal stuff here, basically for food for thought...

My observation so far is that BB/9 and individual Pitch Control ratings don't necessarily lead to "expected" effect of controlling the amount of walks. I think the reasons are (1) some pitches are harder to control than others, e.g., in-game description explicitly says that CB is hard to control, which is in line with our own experiences... remember how often the threads pop up about how to use CB effectively in this game; and (2) those ratings (BB/9 and Pitch Control) are not as sensitive to create a wide array of control/command abilities that we see in real life... what I mean is that wen you take some random pitcher and give him zero ratings for BB/9 and control doesn't automatically turn him into Carlos Marmol. The opposite is true, giving him 99 for all these ratings doesn't turn him into Roy Halladay.

(And to a lesser extent perhaps, that CPU batters have better discipline and ability to pick up pitches to put in play/foul off also matter.... since when those things happen the at-bat won't be long enough to get to ball four.)

A hobby of mine is to try to simulate a pitcher with a very dominant pitch (or two) but has a rather poor control/command. Specifically, Nolan Ryan (used his MLB 10 ratings) and Hideo Nomo here. At their hey days, their stats lines are characterized by K/9 > 9, and BB/9 of about 4.5... So if each pitches 200 IP for a season, you'd see something like 100 BB and 200 SO. SCEA tends to give this kind of pitchers a BB/9 rating of about 50 (and a K/9 of close to 100).

They have quite different pitch selections, so the comparison is not exactly apple to apple... it's more like Amtrak to NJ Transit. But anyways, Ryan I believe had 4SFB, 12CV, SL, and 2SFB. Nomo, I gave 4SFB, FRK, and SPL. Their individual pitch control ratings are roughly similar.

In the most recent seasons, their stats in CPU vs. CPU games look like this:

Ryan 15-9, 3.79 ERA, 206.1 IP, 197 H, 100 BB, 201 SO
Nomo 7-5, 3.29 ERA, 150.2 IP, 148 H, 39 BB, 120 SO

(This is only one season, in the latter case only 3/4, but I've tinkered with the ratings to do better job of simulating their walk rate but the stats roughly come out similar no matter what I did. My point is that it's not small sample size.)

Ryan's line I'd say is pretty well done (though I want to see him dominate more, especially in the K department). But Nomo issues too few walks, and in fact is quite good at limiting them.

I wanted to make him wilder to produce more walks without compromising his ability to go for Ks, so I've tried both minimizing/maximizing BB/9 and Pitch Control ratings to see how they affect things.

The result was that I couldn't change the number of walks that much!!

So this leads to my point (2) above... that rating change alone probably doesn't change pitcher's propensity to walk batters. Perhaps, even at zero ratings, pitchers don't become wild enough like some pitchers in real life are... and/or perhaps CPU hitters are so good that even when the pitchers are crazy wild, they don't miss pitches when they come in the strike zone, so they put into play before they walk anyways.

However, Ryan did walk a fairly realistic amount of batters, so it is possible for pitchers to be wild.

What's the difference?? I'd say it's pitch selection... my point (1) above.

Ryan has a huge 12-6 CV that he often uses. But in the game, it's one of harder pitches to command, so he often gets into trouble by relying on the pitch too often. I've seen him digging his own hole by throwing a tad too many of them. I don't know if FRK/SPL is harder to command in the game, but it probably is easier, so Nomo didn't get himself into trouble, although about 40% of his pitches are FRK/SPL.

And I tend to think this is not an isolated incident about Ryan... another example is Roy Halladay who ralphie above also cited to play rather poorly in the game. I believe Halladay also has a big sweeping CB or slurve which he often throws in the game. IRL he only issues 1 - 2 walks in 9 innings and rated accordingly in the game, but I think he's very mediocre in that department in CPU vs. CPU games.

So I'd say check your pitchers' pitch selection. If he has a dominant pitch he relies on that is known to be difficult to command (in the game), that could be the reason why he walks more batters than he should.

Nomo, I knew I could expect a very comprehensive answer from you! thanks for the info, it makes a decent amount of sense. I've only played 60 or so games with my created pitcher (s) so maybe over a season, the stats would even out. BTW, I'm still using your sliders for my CPU vs CPU seasons. thanks a bunch....

[nomo17k]

Re: Create a player 101

Nomo, I knew I could expect a very comprehensive answer from you! thanks for the info, it makes a decent amount of sense. I've only played 60 or so games with my created pitcher (s) so maybe over a season, the stats would even out. BTW, I'm still using your sliders for my CPU vs CPU seasons. thanks a bunch....

You come to love discussing what all these walks can do to your psyche, once your team loses one of the most important games of your life to a bases loaded walk. Not to mention in the year in which the World was supposed to end (which didn't).... something changed in my life and when that happened I knew I'd forever be alone...

I've been talking about walks ever since, as if I've been on a quest to find my twin brother whom I got separated from at young age... It probably is more devastating than one of your own fans stealing a catchable foul ball off your left fielder to lose an important game.

[bobloblah1980]

Re: Create a player 101

Now are you guys Watching/managing these games? or are you guys just simming through seasons?

Because u have to consider the all powerful confidence meter into this equation as well if you are watching/managing these games as well

[nomo17k]

Re: Create a player 101

Now are you guys Watching/managing these games? or are you guys just simming through seasons?

Because u have to consider the all powerful confidence meter into this equation as well if you are watching/managing these games as well

CPU vs. CPU games mean they are all played out without simming.