A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • tfer717
    Banned
    • Jan 2012
    • 235

    #1

    A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

    I am strictly an offline player. For the main reason that I just play vs friends that play ultra simulation like me. But with Madden 13 i've realized that even 2 players trying to play as sim as possible, the game doesn't reward you for it. It encourages you to play 'cheesy' (as i like to call it).

    this is a list of things that I think really hinder the simulation player.
    (to preface. I play on All-Pro Difficulty, 15 min quarters, game speed very slow, 0 threshold)

    #1. ZIG-ZAG Running. - it is nearly impossible to play this game without zig zag running showing its ugly head. When I play the game I try to make it a point to juke with the right stick and run in realistic angles, but i often find that the only way to shed tackles at the line of scrimmage is to 'zig-zag' and play 'cheesy'. Runners don't plant, or shift weight. It is sheer ice skating. If u look on youtube at nearly every madden player. it is filled with 20 step drop backs and zig zag galore. This hinders the game unbelievably.

    #2 The entire receiving engine (WR's and DB's) - this is a topic that is not as often talked about. But I believe that the entire catching engine in the game is flawed. The ball warps in to the players hands and will change spin, position and trajectory just to acheive this. Does it not bother anyone else that once a DB makes a pick (when the screen turns) it can never be knocked out or dropped? Catches seem too predictable. It doesn't feel organic. (don't even get me started on the onside kick catching) it just seems like that ball always warps into players' hands.

    #3 O-Line/D-Line Interaction - this seems to be too often talked about. So I don't have to say much. It just isn't real at all. and seems to lack any sort of depth. Maybe the worst thing in the game.

    #4 rag doll physics - I very much disagree with EA's pushing of this 'physics based gameplay'. To me it feels much more like animations happening with their limbs and head's adjusting to the player hitting them. I've seen perhaps 100's of animations from past maddens, just with a leg bending differently, (and clumsily).

    #5 'The Big Play' - For some reason every madden I have ever played always had this. And in 13, it seems to be in full effect. Every game I play, even when trying to be the most sim possible.. Never fails, their is ALWAYS a big play. An 80 yard run, 5 broken tackles, deep diving catch..etc. In other words, plays that happen 1-2 a year in real life, seem to happen every game. Remember the tyree catch from older madden's? I literally saw that catch every game I played. Madden's approach of making this game 'fun' alienates the sim gamer. This game will never truly become simulation if they continue this approach.

    #6 NFL Experience and Immersion - Every year I feel that EA drops the ball on this. This year they touted their presentation as the best yet. But all it takes is playing 2 games to see all it has to offer. There is no variance, no changes in scenery or what players do game to game. I urge URGE madden, to take a real-time approach to presentation. Im not asking for halftime shows or weekly wrap ups. I just want to see different things every game. (such as nba 2k or the show). I hate seeing the same pre game rituals from the players. Their is NO depth in this game.


    thank you for reading this 'rant'. in closing I am in no way an EA *****. I adore NHL 13, and really think its the greatest sports game ever made. But it really angers me to see Madden completely monopolize the market, and not listen to the SIM gamers. NBA 2k went for total sim, and they are on top. Arcade is NEVER the way to go with flagship franchises. Leave it to Blitz.
  • Franchise408
    Banned
    • Feb 2010
    • 1888

    #2
    Re: A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

    I agree 100%

    Comment

    • Big FN Deal
      Banned
      • Aug 2011
      • 5993

      #3
      Re: A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

      Well stated OP, no matter how much I try to just enjoy Madden, the player movement is an immersion killer. I like the IE but without addressing player movement and small nuances like RBs "pushing off" their own blockers, it just can't shine.

      I have said it before but the big 3 for M14 must be AI, player movement and the trenches for Madden to be considered a solid sim.

      Comment

      • rodgers135
        Rookie
        • Sep 2012
        • 7

        #4
        Re: A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

        Originally posted by Big FN Deal
        Well stated OP, no matter how much I try to just enjoy Madden, the player movement is an immersion killer. I like the IE but without addressing player movement and small nuances like RBs "pushing off" their own blockers, it just can't shine.

        I have said it before but the big 3 for M14 must be AI, player movement and the trenches for Madden to be considered a solid sim.
        Same here. The player movement has made me shut off the game in frustration and go do something else with my time. The only reason I bought Madden was for the depth of Franchise and building a team, so I already plan on selling 13 and keeping 12 and just playing Franchise in that.

        Comment

        • briz1744
          Rookie
          • May 2012
          • 207

          #5
          Re: A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

          Agree with all the above but fear very little of this will ever change until those in charge at EA fathom out that what people want is not a fun video game based on NFL football but the fun of NFL football. That making Madden true to life would make it fun in itself
          Here I'm not only refering to on the field but in its career modes too. Adding bells and whistles is marvellous if the foundation is realistic but is irrelevant if not

          Comment

          • Fist Of Kings
            Pro
            • Oct 2009
            • 793

            #6
            Re: A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

            The presentation is still bad. The intro where one of the players is tapping his teammates on their shoulders looks cool...until you realize you see it every game, there's no variety. The commentators don't notice things, it's just: "1st and 10...2nd and 5..." Simms is really annoying, he constantly blames my qb for 'bad throws' when it's my wrs that keep dropping wide open passes.

            Replays are poorly done too, they're either too long and don't allow me to run no huddle, or just pointless, like showing a 2 yard run out of bounds. That combined with the gameplay problems still not improved and glitches makes me feel like a disappointed beta tester.

            Comment

            • ghettogeeksta
              Banned
              • Sep 2011
              • 2632

              #7
              Re: A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

              I agree with everything you said except number #4 rag doll physics. I am happy they are moving toward a physics based engine, when RTP kicks in, its really a thing of beauty, the problem is that the tackling is not all RTP's their is still a lot of canned tackles. But for those reasons you stated above is the reason I am trading my copy in for NBA 2K 13. Maybe next year, maybe I will have to wait til next gen to get a good football game, maybe never, if EA keeps the exclusive license.

              Comment

              • tfer717
                Banned
                • Jan 2012
                • 235

                #8
                Re: A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

                Originally posted by ghettogeeksta
                I agree with everything you said except number #4 rag doll physics. I am happy they are moving toward a physics based engine, when RTP kicks in, its really a thing of beauty, the problem is that the tackling is not all RTP's their is still a lot of canned tackles. But for those reasons you stated above is the reason I am trading my copy in for NBA 2K 13. Maybe next year, maybe I will have to wait til next gen to get a good football game, maybe never, if EA keeps the exclusive license.
                I just feel that the physics isn't a fundamental part of the tackling. it almost seems like it is put on top of the animations. I still feel like 75% of tackles are animation driven.

                Comment

                • Gatorfan89
                  Rookie
                  • Jul 2012
                  • 183

                  #9
                  Re: A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

                  Originally posted by Fist Of Kings
                  Simms is really annoying, he constantly blames my qb for 'bad throws' when it's my wrs that keep dropping wide open passes.
                  This kills me. I will run a PA pass with my receiver going on a fly for example. The CB will try to bump, and receiver will blow by him and will literally be 10-12 yards behind the defenders. I loft out a perfectly thrown ball in stride and the receiver drops it. Next thing I hear is "great defense there as the defender breaks up the play" when the defender was 10+ yards behind. Or "and the QB misses him" and then they go in an talk about QB accuracy, when the pass was perfect. Or something along the lines of "QB threw into tight coverage and it was broken up" and then they talk about how risky of a throw it was. All of that, when the defender was completely burnt, pass was perfect, and the receiver just dropped it.

                  I have yet to see the announcer say, "and he drops it!!" in shock or give any kind of analysis about the fact that my guys just dropped a wide open TD. The reason is always something wildly inaccurate to the play.

                  Comment

                  • Nunyerbiz
                    MVP
                    • Sep 2010
                    • 1478

                    #10
                    Re: A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

                    While I agree with pretty much all the gripes laid out by the OP... What football video game has ever been created that has ever remotely been good for a "hardcore simulation player"? Madden, NFL 2K, Gameday... none of the major franchises in the 3D console era have ever come close to anything that could be remotely considered 'hardcore simulation'... and extrapolating out current development trends... it ain't gonna happen for the 360/PS3 life cycle. Why would you even bother buying these games anymore based on the last 20 years of 3D gaming?

                    Comment

                    • EmmdotFrisk
                      Pro
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 657

                      #11
                      Re: A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

                      Originally posted by tfer717
                      I am strictly an offline player. For the main reason that I just play vs friends that play ultra simulation like me. But with Madden 13 i've realized that even 2 players trying to play as sim as possible, the game doesn't reward you for it. It encourages you to play 'cheesy' (as i like to call it).

                      this is a list of things that I think really hinder the simulation player.
                      (to preface. I play on All-Pro Difficulty, 15 min quarters, game speed very slow, 0 threshold)

                      #1. ZIG-ZAG Running. - it is nearly impossible to play this game without zig zag running showing its ugly head. When I play the game I try to make it a point to juke with the right stick and run in realistic angles, but i often find that the only way to shed tackles at the line of scrimmage is to 'zig-zag' and play 'cheesy'. Runners don't plant, or shift weight. It is sheer ice skating. If u look on youtube at nearly every madden player. it is filled with 20 step drop backs and zig zag galore. This hinders the game unbelievably.

                      #2 The entire receiving engine (WR's and DB's) - this is a topic that is not as often talked about. But I believe that the entire catching engine in the game is flawed. The ball warps in to the players hands and will change spin, position and trajectory just to acheive this. Does it not bother anyone else that once a DB makes a pick (when the screen turns) it can never be knocked out or dropped? Catches seem too predictable. It doesn't feel organic. (don't even get me started on the onside kick catching) it just seems like that ball always warps into players' hands.

                      #3 O-Line/D-Line Interaction - this seems to be too often talked about. So I don't have to say much. It just isn't real at all. and seems to lack any sort of depth. Maybe the worst thing in the game.

                      #4 rag doll physics - I very much disagree with EA's pushing of this 'physics based gameplay'. To me it feels much more like animations happening with their limbs and head's adjusting to the player hitting them. I've seen perhaps 100's of animations from past maddens, just with a leg bending differently, (and clumsily).

                      #5 'The Big Play' - For some reason every madden I have ever played always had this. And in 13, it seems to be in full effect. Every game I play, even when trying to be the most sim possible.. Never fails, their is ALWAYS a big play. An 80 yard run, 5 broken tackles, deep diving catch..etc. In other words, plays that happen 1-2 a year in real life, seem to happen every game. Remember the tyree catch from older madden's? I literally saw that catch every game I played. Madden's approach of making this game 'fun' alienates the sim gamer. This game will never truly become simulation if they continue this approach.

                      #6 NFL Experience and Immersion - Every year I feel that EA drops the ball on this. This year they touted their presentation as the best yet. But all it takes is playing 2 games to see all it has to offer. There is no variance, no changes in scenery or what players do game to game. I urge URGE madden, to take a real-time approach to presentation. Im not asking for halftime shows or weekly wrap ups. I just want to see different things every game. (such as nba 2k or the show). I hate seeing the same pre game rituals from the players. Their is NO depth in this game.


                      thank you for reading this 'rant'. in closing I am in no way an EA *****. I adore NHL 13, and really think its the greatest sports game ever made. But it really angers me to see Madden completely monopolize the market, and not listen to the SIM gamers. NBA 2k went for total sim, and they are on top. Arcade is NEVER the way to go with flagship franchises. Leave it to Blitz.
                      More than 50% of individuals that get invited to the community events are simulation gamers. Our goal is to create a true to life simulation with the Madden franchise.
                      Emmdotfrisk YouTube Channel

                      Follow Me on Twitter - @Emmdotfrisk

                      Comment

                      • tfer717
                        Banned
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 235

                        #12
                        Re: A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

                        Originally posted by EmmdotFrisk
                        More than 50% of individuals that get invited to the community events are simulation gamers. Our goal is to create a true to life simulation with the Madden franchise.
                        then why, year after year, does this game become even less simulation? I'm sorry but compared to the sim feeling of NHL, the Show, and NBA 2k. This game feels like an arcade game. no depth. EA pushes the Online gaming, but every online game I play is against zig zag runners who constantly throw screens and exploit the poor gameplay.
                        Last edited by tfer717; 09-13-2012, 10:42 AM.

                        Comment

                        • tfer717
                          Banned
                          • Jan 2012
                          • 235

                          #13
                          Re: A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

                          Originally posted by Nunyerbiz
                          While I agree with pretty much all the gripes laid out by the OP... What football video game has ever been created that has ever remotely been good for a "hardcore simulation player"? Madden, NFL 2K, Gameday... none of the major franchises in the 3D console era have ever come close to anything that could be remotely considered 'hardcore simulation'... and extrapolating out current development trends... it ain't gonna happen for the 360/PS3 life cycle. Why would you even bother buying these games anymore based on the last 20 years of 3D gaming?
                          it's true. no game has done it. and that is why it's depressing when ya see MLB the Show and NBA 2k releasing very sim games. Obviously they have their problems. But neither of them have issues with the core foundation of the game. And in my opinion, madden feels outdated in its core gameplay.

                          Comment

                          • Nunyerbiz
                            MVP
                            • Sep 2010
                            • 1478

                            #14
                            Re: A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

                            To be fair, I think an argument could be made that those other sports are probably easier the translate in to video game format than football... And for many, many years basketball and hockey were both way over the top and arcady... I think the NBA 2K and NHL series have both made great 'sim' strides, but only over the last handful of years.

                            Comment

                            • tfer717
                              Banned
                              • Jan 2012
                              • 235

                              #15
                              Re: A hardcore Simulation player's view of Madden...

                              Originally posted by Nunyerbiz
                              To be fair, I think an argument could be made that those other sports are probably easier the translate in to video game format than football... And for many, many years basketball and hockey were both way over the top and arcady... I think the NBA 2K and NHL series have both made great 'sim' strides, but only over the last handful of years.
                              this is true. but im not talking about things that make strides in the game such as improving little things here and there. It is the most basic fundamental parts of the game that Madden year in and out get incorrect. I think that is why so many hardcore sim gamers such as my self get upset. Sure these rag doll physics look nice every once in a while, but it seems to happen after my line misses 3 blocks. Or after a receiver makes a morph catch.

                              Comment

                              Working...