QBs with Low Awareness

[RogueHominid]

I drafted a QB in the late rounds whose THP and THA I like, but he's rated very low in terms of OVR because he has AWR in the 20s.

Does that low OVR and AWR rating negatively impact his gameplay in any way, or is it really just the specific attributes and things like consistency that matter most?

[RyanMoody21]

Re: QBs with Low Awareness

I posted this in the ratings thread but it seems maybe even better suited here. It revolves around Kendall Mills, a 2nd year HB.

Mills is a high 90 in both speed and agility, mid to low 70 overall. Had some issues staying healthy, I found pouring xp into toughness really seems to help that. Bob Sanders could never stay healthy, toughness seemed to remedy it until I could stock up his actually injury rating.

Tonite...Mills had 320 some yards in a game. Speed meaning want it does and pursuit angles being so poor, if he turns then corner is usually over. I was quite surprised late in the game, he got visibly slower so I made up my mind to spend xp on stamina.

In doing so, I found the guy has 19 awareness. He makes cuts more fluid than any back I've had. Infact, in an online CCM I traded Peterson away to use him more and grabbed Blount in FA.

Something is way off when players come in that "stupid" and do so much damage. I'm all for anything to make the game more complete but a lot of the ratings have to start showing major effects on player performance.

[RogueHominid]

Re: QBs with Low Awareness

Thanks for chiming in, Ryan. I know AWR matters some for players you're not controlling the whole time, but for players like the QB and HB, it'd be nice to know what that actually means.

I also drafted a rookie CB with 30s AWR or so and he makes plays, plus he came in with a 1 consistency rating instead of a 0.

[TheDelta]

Re: QBs with Low Awareness

For defensive players, PRC seems to be more important than AWR, but it's hard to tell since, well, obviously no one tells us how exactly it works.

For QBs, I get the feeling that QBs with low AWR tend to throw more picks, when I had my AWR 20 backup QB throw against the Ravens, pretty much every ball thrown into the general direction of Ed Reed was basically an automatic pick it was ugly, it seems as if high AWR/PRC defenders have a field day against low AWR QBs but as I said, it's hard to tell since we have no hard data.

[RogueHominid]

Re: QBs with Low Awareness

For defensive players, PRC seems to be more important than AWR, but it's hard to tell since, well, obviously no one tells us how exactly it works.

For QBs, I get the feeling that QBs with low AWR tend to throw more picks, when I had my AWR 20 backup QB throw against the Ravens, pretty much every ball thrown into the general direction of Ed Reed was basically an automatic pick it was ugly, it seems as if high AWR/PRC defenders have a field day against low AWR QBs but as I said, it's hard to tell since we have no hard data.

That would be VERY interesting. Like, if you get to make the choice to make a given throw, but the QB's general lack of contextual awareness makes him more likely to place the ball where defenders can get to it.

I'm going to have to test this out by starting the rookie, but I don't want to give up the season since we made the Divisional round last year.

[RyanMoody21]

Re: QBs with Low Awareness

I think we all kinda fight the mystery ratings. Clearly it's well past the time where we should be provided something from EA that clearly outlines what each attribute and rating means and does. I recall a long debate about predictability trait not to far back.

User control shouldn't negate a low rating, you sholdnt be able to make a poor player become a star. Infact, it should almost be the opposite. Star players should make you better. For example, even a poor passer should do well with Brady or Manning, as they can make up for your errors in timing or placement.

Even with user control low ratings need to effect things like reaction. If not, I've got zero incentive to actually make a better player. Due to some freezing issues in our CCM a few games had to be simmed and Mills was just as productive in his rookie year.

One thing this really hurts is trade value, the players ratings don't seem to be tied enough to on field prouction. In all honesty you can "will" your QB to Super Bowls, Pro Bowls and MVPs but the low overall will see him worthless on a global scale. Sadly, the legacy ratings are already in game that could serve as a great check and balance between ratings and player performance, they just seem to operate independant.

[RogueHominid]

Re: QBs with Low Awareness

I agree. If the ratings are there, we should know how they work, more or less.

I, too, don't think any player with chronically low awareness should be able to perform at a high level. We all know players who have tons of skill but can't grasp the playbook, have a knack for blowing coverages, playing outside of their assignment, etc. All those things would signify a lack of awareness, and that should factor into the game.

While I love the idea of making my late round QB a successful starter, it should be very hard, if not impossible to do with a 65 OVR player who has 20s-30s awareness.

The other way to look at it is to see these guys as developmental project players whose XP you use solely to generate AWR, and then play them when they've reached a certain threshold.

[purplerat]

Re: QBs with Low Awareness

For a QB AWR is meaningless if you are playing the games and not simming at all.

After season 1 of my CCM I signed an undrafted rookie who had 99 throw power and mid 70s accuracies but an awareness in the 20s. In season 2 I played him in blowout situations and he did pretty well. That along with practice XP and I was able to get his accuracies up into the low 80s. Now in season 3 I've made him my starter and he's off to a phenomenal start.

[nekolas]

Re: QBs with Low Awareness

In one league I drafted a low awr QB (about 20) with 80+ in all accuracies, and I made quite a few INTs like someone else described. But in my online CCM I am using stanzi from the chiefs, and having quite a lot success. He does have about 20-30 more awareness, so I'm not quite sure what to believe. But the many INTs with the very low awr QB did not "feel right", so perhaps there is something to it..

[KBLover]

Re: QBs with Low Awareness

For QBs, I get the feeling that QBs with low AWR tend to throw more picks, when I had my AWR 20 backup QB throw against the Ravens, pretty much every ball thrown into the general direction of Ed Reed was basically an automatic pick it was ugly, it seems as if high AWR/PRC defenders have a field day against low AWR QBs but as I said, it's hard to tell since we have no hard data.

I'm inclined to agree with this based on my experiences with the multitude of QBs I went through after Freeman in my M12 Bucs franchise.

AWR on user QBs seems to determine how much you can "get away with". I especially remember the QB I had in the current season of that franchise. Not a good QB in any way...except for his 92 AWR. Despite his accuracy ratings being terrible, he did no worse than some of those other QBs before him, including Gabbert - who in M12 was pretty accurate but had bad AWR.

When I use Flacco, I can literally force the ball and it won't get picked off. With Pryor, I can throw to someone who looks open, and some guy will calmly move over and pick it off if he's "in the area".

I think it's the game's way of trying to simulate a bad read by the QB. You know how sometimes you hear the QB "didn't see the defender"? That kind of thing. AWR probably impacts the Sense Pressure (accuracy under pressure) and Force Passes (impacts INT rates, I believe, for User QBs) as well.

RG III vs Pyror - RG III should be much better, what with his mid 80's accuracies and his sky high THP, but they play very similarly throwing the ball, and I see the same reactions. The only time the accuracy matters over the AWR from my experience is when the WR is in space - Pryor throws behind guys on slants way too much, but RG can hit them on the spot and he gets less drops.

[KBLover]

Re: QBs with Low Awareness

For a QB AWR is meaningless if you are playing the games and not simming at all.

Joe Webb in my Bucs franchise and his awesome 63 AWR (and equally awesome 65/64/70 accuracies) is having the year of his life. 14 TD, 5 INT, 1600 yards in 8 games.

I don't know what ratings the M13 sim engine uses

[RogueHominid]

Re: QBs with Low Awareness

I'm inclined to agree with this based on my experiences with the multitude of QBs I went through after Freeman in my M12 Bucs franchise.

AWR on user QBs seems to determine how much you can "get away with". I especially remember the QB I had in the current season of that franchise. Not a good QB in any way...except for his 92 AWR. Despite his accuracy ratings being terrible, he did no worse than some of those other QBs before him, including Gabbert - who in M12 was pretty accurate but had bad AWR.

When I use Flacco and his overly high 90 AWR (are they watching the same Flacco? 90? Really?) I can literally force the ball and it won't get picked off. With Pryor, I can throw to someone who looks open, and some guy will calmly move over and pick it off if he's "in the area".

I think it's the game's way of trying to simulate a bad read by the QB. You know how sometimes you hear the QB "didn't see the defender"? That kind of thing. AWR probably impacts the Sense Pressure (accuracy under pressure) and Force Passes (impacts INT rates, I believe, for User QBs) as well.

I have noticed that some QBs can put passes in incredibly small windows with regular frequency, while others can't. Peyton Manning killed me with this in year one--he's the lone reason DEN swept the series.

Other, more average QBs, are less consistent with putting the ball right where it needs to be. Carson Palmer, for example, has good accuracy, but would have a few flat out terrible games where he threw right to the coverage instead of leading the WR.

I've also noticed Pryor and my rookie throwing slants that WR have to step back to catch, or try to one-hand. Maybe that's a manifestation of the AWR thing.

If this is how it works, that's cool. I wonder if we may be giving the game too much credit, though, all things considered. Maybe emmdotfrisk (sp?) can weigh in with some concrete, expert knowledge.

[Hooe]

Re: QBs with Low Awareness

My impression is that AWR absolutely does not matter for a user-controlled player during a game being played, but does in some way affect the 21 remaining CPU-controlled players on the field.

[KingV2k3]

Re: QBs with Low Awareness

This comes up a couple times a year...wish I could find the links, but I can't remember how the threads it was discussed in were titled, etc...

In MY experience your QBs AWR affects the AWR of CPU D

Low QB AWR = Boost to D AWR

Average QB AWR = No Boost to D AWR

High QB AWR = "Penalty" to CPU AWR

Easiest way to test:

Take a VERY low guy and play a half, then play the second half using a high AWR QB...

The passing lanes will be very different, as well as the percentage of receivers who are open and how long they are open for...

HBs are similar, in that high AWR / OVR guys are going to see more / bigger lanes to run through...

[Maizpan]

Re: QBs with Low Awareness

In order to prove whether a QB's Awareness rating affects the Awareness rating of the defenders we must first know what the Awareness rating of the defender does.

From my observation the Play call determines the initial actions of the defenders.

The Play Recognition rating determines whether and by how much a defender is "fooled" by play action or counter plays (also modified by the QBs play action rating)

The Man and Zone coverage ratings affect the ability to play Man and Zone Coverage.

Pursuit determines whether the player takes the "right" angle to the ball carrier.

In my opinion the only thing the Awareness rating of the defenders could affect is possibly avoiding penalties or recovering fumbles.

I would love to hear some other opinions and maybe we can actually find some answers.