Madman Sliders - Let Player Attributes Take Over the Game

[@legendm0de]

So the thought behind this, is these players all have attributes. So what are these gameplay sliders doing, what is their purpose and what do they mean? I figure that they intend well, but they don't mean what it needs to for someone dedicated to playing as authentically as they want. So I took those thoughts while looking at the sliders screen, and I did this:

Check them out on display at its finest, in an example, see what's in store when you put these sliders in your game.

NOW FOR MY GRAND FINALE, THIS SHOWCASES MY NEW RATINGS BASED DEFENSIVE GAMEPLAY AT ITS FINEST ALONG WITH AMAZING PULL HITTING PHYSICS FROM ROLLINS WHOSE DOUBLED ME UP ONCE AGAIN *DAILY DOUBLE* *DAILY DOUBLE* . JUST SIT BACK AND WATCH FOR YOUR SELF
http://youtu.be/k4Jnjw-3GZ8

I chronicled my entire first experience with this new gameplay and have composed a blog all about the change I felt and observations I saw in this game.

I want you guys who dare to and are brave enough, to try it yourselves as well and I'd love to see the feedback about this. The result I've seen is groudbreaking and it even addresses some key inquiries and wishes I've seen asked about for the up-coming release of MLB 13' The Show. I hope other people see it the way I have, please let me know what you think. Even if you can't play them physically just going off what you have been able to observe, what do you think, and do you have any questions or tests you want to see made of these..

madman sliders with pitcher fx (pitcher fx version recommended)
*note: Hitting Difficulty: Legend , Pitching Difficulty: Legend (for my testing)*

Human Contact: 0
Human Power: 0

(to date after 1 night of testing, Freddie Freeman has 1HR @ HOU, R. Howard had a near HR @ Citi Bank http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqMpUAqlEac)

Human Timing: 0
Stride Difficulty: 5 (default)
Human Foul Frequency: 0
Human Solid Hits: 0
Human Starter Stamina: 0 - formerly 5
Human Reliever Stamina: 0 - formerly 5
Human Pitcher Control: 0
Human Pitcher Consistency: 0

CPU Contact: 0
CPU Power: 0
CPU Timing: 0
CPU Foul Frequency: 0
CPU Solid Hits: 0
CPU Starter Stamina: 0 - formerly 5
CPU Reliever Stamina 0 - formerly 5
CPU Pitcher Control: 0
CPU Pitcher Consistency: 0
CPU Pitcher Frequency: 0*

I had this 5 on my first testing, I'm just now putting 0. It controls pitcher success at first pitch strikes. I believe that all pitchers aim for first pitch strikes so I'm not going to grant them this enhancement.

CPU Manager Hook: 5 (default)
CPU Pickoffs: 7 (how many times they check on a runner)

Pitch Speed: 5 (formerly on 6)
Fielding Errors: 7
Throwing Errors: 7
Fielder Run Speed: 0
Fielder Reaction: 0
Fielder Arm Strength: 0
Baserunner Speed: 0

(Rollins stole 3rd base from me under these settings, it's just taking enhancement away from player attributes already in the game)

"2-2 SWING AND MISS, STRIKE THREE BUT ! ROLLINS STOLE THIRD!


OK , I DIDN'T REMEMBER IF I CHANGED ANY BASERUNNING SLIDERS. AND I DID! I SET BASERUNNER SPEED - 0. WELL HE ****IN STOLE 3RD BASE SO I DONT SEE A ****IN PROBLEM WITH IT DO YOU?! (I KEPT STEAL ABILITY AND STEAL FREQUENCY TO DEFUALT - 5)"
http://youtu.be/yy7r6vatXqI

Baserunner Steal Ability: 5 (default)
Baserunner Steal Frequency: 5 (default)

Wind: 7
Injury Frequency: 8 ( I waffle, 7 - 8 i may even go 9 and 10 someday, put it wherever you want)

Enjoy, and I recommend you keep the pitcher fx, it's not so bad at all. If you don't want them, leave everything default for the pitchers, except, pitch speed - 6 and cpu pickoffs - 7.

[@legendm0de]

Re: Madman Sliders - Let Player Attributes Take Over the Game

just knocked out a Batting Practice HR with Starlin Castro, WOW lol

it feels so fluid

edit -

I just watched Hanley steal 2nd on Matt Garza, buy a fingertip (if that), but thats an ode to the Baseruning sliders I haven't seen an issue or irregularity yet.

[dowie]

Re: Madman Sliders - Let Player Attributes Take Over the Game

What is pitcher fx?

[@legendm0de]

Re: Madman Sliders - Let Player Attributes Take Over the Game

I initially didn't tinker with pitcher sliders, I went back and saw they actually recommended adjusting them if you changed the batting, so pitcher fx is the sliders for pitching that I've set to 0.

After setting them to zero I saw a dramatic difference in pitching. User and CPU will stray in accuracy further than they will on default. You may see an errant pitch or two and certainly, the potential of seeing more pitches in the dirt is higher (curveballs, changeups and such).

It feels superbly ratings based, because I controlled Ted Lilly and his sliders and curveballs + location of FBs were on point. His drawback being that he's not a powerful pitcher and can get lined up. While controlling a 21 y/o Jordan Lyles, Houston Astros, just as I've seen on tv his slider, while decent, is unpredictable. And you can't count on it for strikes, but more so for fooling a hitter

That effect that gameplay sliders had on the pitcher, coupled with the batting adjustments, you get people out just as much with your unpredictability as you can with your pinpoint accuracy. And it levels the playing field very much both in batting and in pitching, while at the same time giving the very most realistic gameplay that I've ever experienced.

I hope this will be easy to transfer to MLB 13 and I will definately have HD gameplay footage to display and hopefully show the clear distinction I see from the default gameplay compared to mine.

[randogu]

Re: Madman Sliders - Let Player Attributes Take Over the Game

Just wanted to say I really like where you're headed with these. I've been using them for the last week or so in everything from Exhibition games to RTTS mode.

Control-wise I use Zone hitting and Meter pitching. I've also watched a number of CPU/CPU games.

The batting side especially, really is a thing of beauty.

For those looking at these and balking at all of the 0's, I still see at least one homer nearly every game. Poor pitching will still get crushed. I've been no doubted by true power guys like Dunn in my Cubs franchise and I've been killed by AA jobbers in my RTTS.



Personal tweaks I've made based on what Ive witnessed the past week:

I've moved Injuries from 8 down to 6. Games with 2 or 3 injuries each were becoming commonplace.

I also moved Pitch Control and Pitch Consistency up one 1 on both sides, as I felt I was seeing quality pitching staffs walking 8-9 batters a too often.

Other things I'm continuing to watch are Fielding/Throwing Errors (I feel like I'm watching High School ball a little too often) and Strike Frequency (Quality staffs are barely getting a 50% ball/strike ratio and I'd like to see that up just a bit.)

[@legendm0de]

Re: Madman Sliders - Let Player Attributes Take Over the Game

oh man, thanks that means alot, I've been wondering if I'm the only one noticing how beautiful this is. I'm glad its working for you, I think at any level players can use these settings and enjoy the differences. It's an enhancement of gameplay more so than harder to play, but it does raise difficulty by a little bit, no matter which level your playing on.


I would certainly suggest aiding the pitch consistency slider, especially in minor leagues, if someone sees that as an issue. But certainly not by much. At it's default 5, it felt that pitchers, human and cpu, were almost entitled to throw strikes when they needed one, and I was forced to foul it off or put it in play, or worse take a strikeout. these are called madman sliders by the way, so the science isn't the mostexact,

I'm doing testing to gear and fully be ready for MLB 13's experience and this is a great base to start with. I'm already open to aiding pitcher consistency up 1 notch as you did, just to give the integrity of realism a safety net. Thus far out of nearly a dozen games and thus over 20 pitchers I've only once seen the excessive 8 or 9 walks done by Josh Johnson, while his counterpart Matt Garza had no issues. I've seen other pitchers like Travis Wood, Chris Medlen, Lucas Harrell have normal, or very good games. However, that doesn't factor in true minor leaguers, and what may happen to them. I'll be eager to go in soon and see what their gameplay is like, however I should expect mistakes in some areas from them because they're not MLB.

I think the consistency slider I'm very open to adjusting, I think its primary function is the effort to get in the strike zone. Pitcher control, is what has the most effect on pitchers execution and I relinquished that to attribute ratings only by tuning that slider all the way to 0.

Overall from a defensive point of view I've seen a wide variety of pitching and defense which makes the game very fun, expanding the possibilities of things to occur in the game. With that said, I've yet to see any crazy errors, or one statistical Wild Pitch, Human or CPU, I've seen one passed ball, CPU (Wellington Castillo). I've still seen good throws from the defense, yet nothing out of the ordinary good or bad. I still have testing to do, but so far after a week or so of this, I'm more pleased than ever with the way this game is playing.

edit -- and certainly, I've not experienced that craziness with the injuries that you have, I've had just one so far in all games played to this point. But that slider can definately be changed however you see fit, I've yet to fully grip which number for that slider is best for me, it's kind of hard to make someone get injured in baseball.. believe it or not.

[jon1960ca]

Re: Madman Sliders - Let Player Attributes Take Over the Game

I like the concept of thes. Any thoughts on how this might do in Manage Only Mode?

[Ace2011]

Re: Madman Sliders - Let Player Attributes Take Over the Game

I LOVE the concept of these sliders but I wouldn't recommend using these sliders for RTTS, especially if it's a new RTTS and your stats are low. I gave it a shot to see how well I would do with my new RTTS Right Fielder and I watched my batting average drop from .380 to .280. I'll probably be using these for my franchise teams but not for my NEW RTTS guys.

But again,

I love the concept.

[@legendm0de]

Re: Madman Sliders - Let Player Attributes Take Over the Game

lol those sliders put a not - so - fast on your fast track to the big leagues.

I actually can't wait to try these on my RTTS, I plan to do my first fully committed RTTS in conjuction with franchise for MLB 13'. I can't wait, I do need more testing around to see how minor league players react to these slider adjustments. But I'm kind of laying off MLB right now until the season starts

Anyhow, thanks I'm really glad to see people enjoying these. No matter which level you're playing you can still apply these sliders, it will raise difficulty just slightly but it's very much worth it, at least in my opinion.

edit - This also makes the case why minor leagers need to stop having ridiculous attribute limitations. They're professional ball players all of these guys should at least specialize in one area and be capable of developing real progress throughout the seasons and their carreers. All should be athletic (and not lethargically slow) and most should be solid, at least decent fielders, (not poor). That's why I actually liked the O.S.F.M when I got to it for 12' because not only how much it adds to the games realism, those players have justifiable ratings. I hope that the new progression focus on MLB 13 The Show will improve minor leager abilities in the game

I like the concept of thes. Any thoughts on how this might do in Manage Only Mode?

For one I think you'll see some marvellous looking baseball games. I think it really will enhance manager mode, and give you much more to look at and do and decisions to make over the course of a season. I'm thinking but I honestly can't think of a concern or bug you'd encounter playing this mode. The defense is not doing anything crazy and insane and they still make the routine plays. It's just a very interesting thing to watch,

Feel free I'd like to know about your experiences

edit - I would beware of the injury rates and turn them down however you see fit

[dowie]

Re: Madman Sliders - Let Player Attributes Take Over the Game

Are these for just simulating games or are you actually playing them?

[@legendm0de]

Re: Madman Sliders - Let Player Attributes Take Over the Game

playing them only, I don't sim games I occasionally watch the demo but not often at all. I did watch demo play once intentionally so I could further see the effect of the sliders on the game.

[dowie]

Re: Madman Sliders - Let Player Attributes Take Over the Game

Thoughts....

I moved down to HOF level, because of the swing and miss happening a little too often for the user (me).

The game definitely felt authentic, and different from the most popular slider sets out there.

I want to try one thing tonight though since this is a attribute based slider set. I want to put both solid hits and foul frequency at default (5).

Why? Because no player has these specific attributes in their profile and the games I have tried so far is light on the # of foul balls and I am not generating any line drive gap power at all.

Other than that I actually like these a lot and am going to try and make them work till 2013 comes out.

Why did you choose legend level and increase pitch speed to 6 (I have it at 3) are my only questions for you right now?

Legend seems to "arcade like" and isn't sim enough for me. In other words it plays too much like a video game with robo computer.

Thoughts/feedback?

Dowie

[GzGViper]

Re: Madman Sliders - Let Player Attributes Take Over the Game

What pitching method do you use with these sliders?

[dowie]

Re: Madman Sliders - Let Player Attributes Take Over the Game

For me:
meter pitch
auto field + manual throw
pitch view is outfield
hit view is catcher

My only worry is are we downplaying the developers work in thinking zeroing all player attribute specific sliders? OR will this be a better experience?

I haven't seen any box scores in here for players who have tested this for 15-30 games,


Dowie

[@legendm0de]

Re: Madman Sliders - Let Player Attributes Take Over the Game

Thoughts....

I moved down to HOF level, because of the swing and miss happening a little too often for the user (me).

The game definitely felt authentic, and different from the most popular slider sets out there.

I want to try one thing tonight though since this is a attribute based slider set. I want to put both solid hits and foul frequency at default (5).

Why? Because no player has these specific attributes in their profile and the games I have tried so far is light on the # of foul balls and I am not generating any line drive gap power at all.

Other than that I actually like these a lot and am going to try and make them work till 2013 comes out.

Why did you choose legend level and increase pitch speed to 6 (I have it at 3) are my only questions for you right now?

Legend seems to "arcade like" and isn't sim enough for me. In other words it plays too much like a video game with robo computer.

Thoughts/feedback?

Dowie

That's definitely fine to switch levels and play from there, I've always believed that any level can apply these changes and it won't stray you too far from your ability to play competitively as before. It just will expose some really worthwhile enhancements.

Now to your slider changes to address foul balls and line drives / solid hits When I decided to zero those 2 particular sliders, in my estimation, I still felt even these were attribute driven aspects of the game tied closely to contact ability. Even though they don't have particular measures for foul or line drive ability, I felt they were aspects of the game related closely to contact ability. When zeroing them, my thoughts were players with more solid contact ability would have higher percentage chances of lining a ball, or obtaining XBHs or fouling off more often, staying alive. This has been one of my primary focus areas, watching if any reputable hitters Unable to do either of those 2 things..

Immediately I saw results (as I chronicled my first experience in my blog) and I've simply yet to see or feel as if a player was unable to do the damage they are expected to do or be as tough at the plate as they are expected to be.

I still see a good, healthy number of foul balls, cpu and human, with these sliders at 0. But notably, as a human, it is more of a grind and higher awareness/focus is required than in default mode, to foul off foul off those pitches. Again I still foul off enough very much to my satisfaction. This issue is another one of the top things I've always been looking for on these slider changes, and I don't feel too disadvantaged at the plate but that is just me and my level of comfort playing. More here -

Spoiler

Statistically, being honest, I see mixed results in # of strikeouts human and cpu, and it also is very dependent on which pitcher(s) your facing and what level you're playing to begin with. It's far to much to get into on this post. As a whole since I've seen a slight rise/increase in strikeouts per game on average. But also, by average, prior to the slider changes, I often saw fewer strikeouts than I would have liked both human and cpu. Again, strikeout rates have entirely to many factors to try and analyze here. I would just say as a whole, I feel these changes have yes, increased strikeout chances, but in my opinion for the better. Again there are to many factors, involved in, im also currently playing with pitch speed on 10, so take my opinion as lightly as possible.

Jacking the foul ball frequency sliders to give you a little leeway and comfort in at bats, is cool but the only issue I see is going all the way to 5 (default). I used to always feel like at default, cpu especially, but also human batting had too much ability to foul off and stay alive, consecutive times in a row, even if pitches were good and in different locations. At times I found some foul balls hard to believe.

Spoiler

I notice those complaints at times, something to the effect of "my bat cursor is all the way "here" but the ball is "there" and I fouled it off, are they going to fix that." And I'm pretty sure now that it's the slider enhancements that have to do with this. Giving the players an extra enhanced ability to do certain things in the game.

I feel at default that slider gives to much enhancement to players and CPU especially when coupled with the 5 default of player contact. If I needed help with the fouls I would have started off with no higher than 2 for that particular slider and go from there.

Now to my favorite part, the line drive, and gap finding ability, etc. This was an area among the top of my order of things to investigate when changing and testing these sliders. They both definitely exist and I've never seen it on display better and more effectively than before these slider changes by miles. My observations on attaining line drives and gap finders:

Individual attributes such as power and contact vs R/Lhp does affect the likelihood of teeing up dangerous contact. Simply hitters with better ability are more likely to dish out damaging hits than hitters not as offensively able. And statistically, I've seen the better hitters responsible for putting the better balls in play. This just happened to me prior to posting with Adam Laroche and it's among some of the finest gameplay I've ever encountered on this game. I feel like taking the line drive aid out of this, is what actually has made this possible.

Spoiler

Otherwise, this hit would have been a lined out to CF possibly especially with defensive abilities activated such as fielder speed. reaction and ability. Taking solid hits / line drive aid out, in my estimation, allowed this ball to 1) hook and 2) carry. That is why I feel line drive aids would have changed this entire awesome play. I shared similar thoughts about a kind of similar play, somewhere in my blog analyzing my initial gameplay experience with these changes.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NNKyGA9nQwc?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hAtbtQh4Kps?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Prior to that , Aaron Hill laced one right up the middle past the pitcher right through the outfield fyi


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AnPx-D3rars?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Just an example of differences that I encounter, but that is not to say only your marquee guys are going to be responsible for getting these hits. My other observation about line drive and good dangerous hits is, it requires not solely a talented hitter, it's even more-so about getting hold of a pitch.

Spoiler

For example, if you saw the giant scoreboard on Aaron Hill's At Bat I was [(1-2) 1 out] in defense mode ready to take any pitch in strike zone and lay it out. Here's a screen, maybe you can get a glimpse of the psycology I was going through in my at bat.



Then likewise, if you noticed the 3-2 1 out count in the Kubel at bat, you saw I in turn crushed his high fastball and here's the screen display of pitches in that at bat



The ways you get on top of pitches varies from level to level, so it doesn't require all of this pyschology just to get a xtra base hit, but the point is, getting in front of a pitch, is probably the biggest factor in being rewarded with the line drives and gap finders under these sliders. The only thing trumping that factor, might be just player attributes.

Depending on what level your on, that is easier or harder to do. However, getting on top of a pitch will reward you with amazing visuals and dangerous hits, opposed to default "line drive ability" which I think often caused solid contact to line out foul or into the outfield, for a far less interesting play, taking alot of great elements of hitting balls and baseball period out of the game.

One suggestion I would make is go into the batting practice modes, and get an instant chance, in a non pressure environment, to put balls in play and see how the contact under these settings function. I do it regularly just for enjoyment, and it also greatly improves your comfort and ability in real games.

Spoiler

It takes patience, yes, you're not entitled to get a line drive for making decent contact. I'm sure you've noticed the variation of hitting you experience pretty instantly, so many different things can happen. With these sliders, you almost can feel if you got the right contact for a line drive or possible XBH instantly. Also with that, your fly balls, poor contact, weak ground balls, will all be felt. I've had a blooper once in BP, falling right behind 3B and for my first time ever, I have seen CHOPPERS, legit choppers hit to the infield at times, I believe I have recorded one or two instances, but I've yet to put them on Youtube. One suggestion I would make again is go into the batting practice modes,

As you've seen already with the hitting, I'm sure, there is something to the naturalized contact with the ball that sees so much higher quality in hitting. I'll embed examples here to begin with -

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2O5sRhSd9Ms?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Note in the video below, how the ball dies because of the lack of power Ellis got to generate when making contact:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hZT5snAuglc?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And here's an example of pulling, gap hitting, line drive ability.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/k4Jnjw-3GZ8?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The hitting variety is incredibly huge now, and I believe it was the result of stripping the "solid hits" "frequency" ability down to 0. This was a slider enhancement I believe that was provided to let users pick up and play easier, much like the rest of the sliders, which is nice and serves it's purpose but it cheapens the experience (just my opinion). And things like that is where I believe the "arcade" annoyances comes into play. With sliders at default is where you get enhanced line drive ability, fielder ability, speed and reaction time, among other things, areas I'm sure that can be agreed as some of the most annoying aspects of this game.

And to your last question, I just feel comfortable on that level, and actually have just increased the pitch speed up to 10 now, I'm testing it at the moment to see how doable it is (for me) over the course of full games and consecutive games as I would have to do in season modes. In fact the Arizona Diamondbacks footage with Kubel and Hill are both done with pitch speed set at max to 10, So levels are just subjective to the player, I obviously don't feel its arcade, but I understand why many players wouldn't go near it