Speed threshold and game speed

[charter04]

I need some feed back. I know people have test the game speed and threshold for realistic 40 times but, I am trying to find the best combo for best foot planting and player movement. I tried very slow and I didn't like any threshold with that. For me slow or normal was best. I noticed with 0 threshold the players felt light and skated. At 60+ they felt like they had weight and seemed to have momentum and foot planting. I even tried 100 and was surprised how well it worked. Has anyone done extensive testing on this?

[wordtobigbird]

Re: Speed threshold and game speed

No extensive testing but I played on Slow 0 and now I play on slow at 100 and am comfortable with it. Guys still seperate from slower players but there isnt that ice skating feel with the rally fast guys.

[charter04]

Re: Speed threshold and game speed

No extensive testing but I played on Slow 0 and now I play on slow at 100 and am comfortable with it. Guys still seperate from slower players but there isnt that ice skating feel with the rally fast guys.

I'm leaning toward 60+ for sure. I jus liked the feel of it.

[G3no_11]

Re: Speed threshold and game speed

What does game speed effect? I have it on Normal right now. If I moved it to Slow what would be the difference? Speed of the players? Speed of the ball in the air?

[charter04]

Re: Speed threshold and game speed

What does game speed effect? I have it on Normal right now. If I moved it to Slow what would be the difference? Speed of the players? Speed of the ball in the air?

It can effect things like coverage. Mostly just animations though. The slower the speed the more time the game engine has to show more animations. Run blocking can have more time to develop. I like slow and normal though.

[wordtobigbird]

Re: Speed threshold and game speed

What does game speed effect? I have it on Normal right now. If I moved it to Slow what would be the difference? Speed of the players? Speed of the ball in the air?

Its the overall speed of the game in general. So everything speeds up or slows down. Slow makes it smoother IMO.

[wordtobigbird]

Re: Speed threshold and game speed

I'm leaning toward 60+ for sure. I jus liked the feel of it.

Right. I think its really just personal preference with the game speed and threshold.

[KBLover]

Re: Speed threshold and game speed

Game speed seems to impact more than animations - changes how the AI responds and the timing with which it responds (and how things like delayed action due to being fooled on the play work out).

I'm guessing that ANY timing-related action is impacted. This may/probably does include leading passes (how the AI attempts to judge distance). Definitely includes the "deception delay" on things like draw plays. I noticed this on M12 also - higher game speed seems to create sharper reaction (less delay) from the player AI. Of course, not necessarily the correct action - but whatever action it takes - it does it quickly allowing you to make quicker decisions on what you see yourself in some situations, imo.

Animations do play out faster, and in some cases that can create more dynamic plays (broken tackles and stumbles where the player keeps his balance and some forward movement don't take as long to play out, for example, so the play is more likely to continue on for more yardage), but it isn't as nice to look at - I can see why some would hate the look of it.

Some of the animation playing out changes the required timing...and whether or not the players can meet that timing. Defenders can be late more often swatting hard passes (especially from high THP QBs), for example. A pass bounced off my defender's facemask before he could get his hands up because a pass was thrown so hard (he was a backup LB meant more for pass rushing so...not good ball skills LOL). I hit Brandon Lloyd in the side of the helmet because I threw a comeback too early and too hard (that 99 THP can be a curse LOL). On Slow, that's a completion because of the ball's slower travel time. Lloyd's probably like "Dude? Really?"

Almost gave up an onside kick to the CPU because my 30 AWR WR rookie didn't react fast to the ball bouncing off his shin. Even if the AWR delay wasn't impacted by game speed, the result of the play almost was. Ford and his speed got there just in time literally an eye lash before the Texans got it.

Blocking I think resolves quicker on higher game speeds - including getting set up and when the shed occurs (if it does). I do agree that higher game speed is a bit less forgiving trying to block quick defenders out of position. Don't seems to get quite as many "pushed on the side" blocks. Then again, had a nice screen go off with out a hitch because the blockers GO when they have their "goal". The timing delay of "deciding who I need to block" seems to drop, letting them start executing quicker. Of course, you need it because the defense is getting the same thing.

As always, just based on what I'm seeing.

[charter04]

Re: Speed threshold and game speed

I agree with that. I just like to see things develop and have less "skating". The speed defiantly has an affect on the game play.

[KBLover]

Re: Speed threshold and game speed

I agree with that. I just like to see things develop and have less "skating". The speed defiantly has an affect on the game play.

I hear you.

I do like how things play out on Slow.

[jbreeze21]

Re: Speed threshold and game speed

My man I think what your looking for is...50 slow speed...auto sprint off. Try it. It works for me

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Speed threshold and game speed

Speaking on min. speed threshold - this is like the 0-60 speed test for cars.

In my perspective, 0 min speed = 0-100 or 100 yard dash and that is reserved for the elite sprinters. This is why the trench interactions suffer among other subtle details but this is the most obvious because the o-linemen and d-lineman can't compete in a 100 yard dash.

50 threshold is the 50 yard dash but the ratings are based off of 40 times. 60 = 40 yard dash (100-60 = 40). The lower you go the more you give the slower guys a chance to compete and play up to their own individual strengths outside of speed and acceleration alone.

The 60+ range will also allow players to hit top speed faster which is realistic. This comes in hand when you have an 89 speed corner trying to defend someone like Andre Johnson.

This was the case this weekend with Aqib Talib defending Andre. Talib won the war and pretty much shutdown Andre. He's an aggressive DB and not that fast (89 in game).

I used to abhor the higher threshold but it works differently this year than in past or at least feels different. It's not like the NCAA '12 engine either for min. speed where it simply makes the slow guys faster when you go up and the fast guys slower. This one you actually feel an evening and not a shift in power.

The slower game speeds work in harmony with the higher thresholds because everyone is able to accelerate and hit top speed faster. Consider a WR does not hit top speed in all his routes unless it's a fly: this helps the pass coverage among other things but it's not a help it's putting things in the order they belong in so the gameplay carries out as a simulation of real life and not arcade.

WR's do a lot of chop stepping and hesitating before they can release into the end of their route. So they're often going about 75% of what they woudl actually go. If The DB is sagging off and he's slow this will help him on the deep ball.

Another aspect of min. speed threshold is separation and tightness in respect to interactions on the field. It's easier to have penalties get called and to experience more "friction" when using higher threshold's because you are closing the gaps that allow for suction and other nastiness.

*Pass Windows
*Running Lanes
*Trench War - push and pull

All these aspects of the game become more critical. KB knows all about the benefits of angles too on the higher thresholds.

Lower thresholds deserve faster game speeds but they also require adjustments to the slider base. All that real estate needs an agent. You gotta work with the sliders to assist the DB's and LB's as well as the O-lineman. I find upping the false start is good on lower thresholds so that the O-linemen get a boost in real estate.

You would also need to tone the running back abilities on lower thresholds to ensure the power backs can still be powerful. At 50 they are not relevant, at 0 they become extinct..

There's a list of opportunities there but it's all preference at the end of the day. Even with adjustments to the penalty tab and ability tab, I don't feel like the NFL experience is justified on 0 or anything below 50; 40 comes close but still misses the mark.

Going to zero on min. speed is like a track meet and not a football game on the gridiron. Too many things become extinct and impotent. It's also like going to Rookie, in my opinion. It makes the game polarized just as 100 would.

In short, anything below 50 isolates speed for success. Anything above 50 makes the race more reasonable. At 100 anyone can compete because it because you're always at top speed, in theory. The closer you go to 100 though the more you eliminate the subtleties of acceleration and acceleration. This is one of the benefits of going below 50.

The problem with going under 50 though is that the game is not made to compensate for the drop in acceleration among the spread of players that can't keep up with the longer distances. If the game could allow them to maintain their acceleration that would eliminate the point of a speed threshold slider. The longer the distance the more the fatties can't keep up and exhaust them.

"the race doesn't go to the swift nor the battle to the strong... but chance comes to us all"

that's how I see it ^ wise words from the scriptures.. 50+ gives Everyone a chance because the race becomes more life like football and not a track meet.

[D_Fos]

Re: Speed threshold and game speed

I need some feed back. I know people have test the game speed and threshold for realistic 40 times but, I am trying to find the best combo for best foot planting and player movement. I tried very slow and I didn't like any threshold with that. For me slow or normal was best. I noticed with 0 threshold the players felt light and skated. At 60+ they felt like they had weight and seemed to have momentum and foot planting. I even tried 100 and was surprised how well it worked. Has anyone done extensive testing on this?

Ive seen some SICK foot plants, with the CPU HB cutting back, finding DAYLIGHT, and making something out of nothing, types of foot planting!

I'm more extreme w/ my Sliders though.

Along w/ others, we have tested the Highend Side for CPU sliders(apx 2mnths), Threshold, and Gamespeed.
I have my Gamespeed Normal, which I still have to go back and look at replays b/c things happen so fast.
I like my threshold @ 75.

I've done threshold testing on Spteams(in practice mode, offline, b4 entering CCM) for the past 2 Madden's. It allows you to see what all different types of players speed, acc, pursuit(for defense) and how each level from 0-25-50-75-100 actually change in the players performance.

I love 75 threshold, it allows my LBs to show Pursuit(even better than 100 does) to really take a stand, and almost be like the ACC/Aggression at "getting to the ballcarrier rating/Hustle Rating"
, to counter the Offensive players ACC rating, whichI LOVE!!!

Anybody can test it like I did and see what threshold, affects what ratings, and how more/less it affects them.

Btw; I Love how I can have the CPUs BTK, RUN BLK, WR CTH, PASS RUSH, and BLK SHED all 100(except, WR CTH: 75) and still see my defense play lights out at times!!
I can also see them struggle and make realistic mistakes and be cold!
I just think w/ the CPU having 100 BTK highest possible level of A.I.(on subject, just read me out) they can cut and show elusiveness, agility, BCV, etc.
I've held HBs like A. Bradshaw to 80 or less yds and I've been completely ran over by Elite Backs ie. A.P.
My last gm,
Rice was hot and I did everything I could to focus on shutting him down!
End of game, My MLB(L. Fletcher) has 9tackles, mainly on Rice, 1ff, 1int, and 1sack.
Ray Rice ended w/ apx 65 rushing and another 65 rec. w/ 1 beautiful screen for the TD on about a 40yd scamper. He read his blocks and looked smooth, reminded of the Great Barry Sanders for a moment.
He didn't dominate me! but he made an impact, even w/ me focusing on him 90% of the game.
He made some nice cutbacks too!

Thankfully, Flacco and Co. were cold, so they struggled to open up very many lanes for him. MY D was HOT! All my LBs, Secondary, Lineman, most I've seen in a game all season.
IMO, Its what you prefer.
I like for the Defensive side of the field to be a bit tighter than what you see on low thresholds, and my LBs to be capable of getting over 100 tackles in a season.
London Fletcher is in top 5 in tackles(P. Riley not too far behind him) after 13gms.

Sidenote:
Another reason 100 BTK works out for the CPU so well, It makes the CPU A.I. BELIVE THEY CAN RUN!!
They stick with the run,
and this allow my LBs to get a better realistic amount of tackles per gm.

[MarketingWiz]

Re: Speed threshold and game speed

Speaking on min. speed threshold - this is like the 0-60 speed test for cars.

In my perspective, 0 min speed = 0-100 or 100 yard dash and that is reserved for the elite sprinters. This is why the trench interactions suffer among other subtle details but this is the most obvious because the o-linemen and d-lineman can't compete in a 100 yard dash.

50 threshold is the 50 yard dash but the ratings are based off of 40 times. 60 = 40 yard dash (100-60 = 40). The lower you go the more you give the slower guys a chance to compete and play up to their own individual strengths outside of speed and acceleration alone.

The 60+ range will also allow players to hit top speed faster which is realistic. This comes in hand when you have an 89 speed corner trying to defend someone like Andre Johnson.

This was the case this weekend with Aqib Talib defending Andre. Talib won the war and pretty much shutdown Andre. He's an aggressive DB and not that fast (89 in game).

I used to abhor the higher threshold but it works differently this year than in past or at least feels different. It's not like the NCAA '12 engine either for min. speed where it simply makes the slow guys faster when you go up and the fast guys slower. This one you actually feel an evening and not a shift in power.

The slower game speeds work in harmony with the higher thresholds because everyone is able to accelerate and hit top speed faster. Consider a WR does not hit top speed in all his routes unless it's a fly: this helps the pass coverage among other things but it's not a help it's putting things in the order they belong in so the gameplay carries out as a simulation of real life and not arcade.

WR's do a lot of chop stepping and hesitating before they can release into the end of their route. So they're often going about 75% of what they woudl actually go. If The DB is sagging off and he's slow this will help him on the deep ball.

Another aspect of min. speed threshold is separation and tightness in respect to interactions on the field. It's easier to have penalties get called and to experience more "friction" when using higher threshold's because you are closing the gaps that allow for suction and other nastiness.

*Pass Windows
*Running Lanes
*Trench War - push and pull

All these aspects of the game become more critical. KB knows all about the benefits of angles too on the higher thresholds.

Lower thresholds deserve faster game speeds but they also require adjustments to the slider base. All that real estate needs an agent. You gotta work with the sliders to assist the DB's and LB's as well as the O-lineman. I find upping the false start is good on lower thresholds so that the O-linemen get a boost in real estate.

You would also need to tone the running back abilities on lower thresholds to ensure the power backs can still be powerful. At 50 they are not relevant, at 0 they become extinct..

There's a list of opportunities there but it's all preference at the end of the day. Even with adjustments to the penalty tab and ability tab, I don't feel like the NFL experience is justified on 0 or anything below 50; 40 comes close but still misses the mark.

Going to zero on min. speed is like a track meet and not a football game on the gridiron. Too many things become extinct and impotent. It's also like going to Rookie, in my opinion. It makes the game polarized just as 100 would.

In short, anything below 50 isolates speed for success. Anything above 50 makes the race more reasonable. At 100 anyone can compete because it because you're always at top speed, in theory. The closer you go to 100 though the more you eliminate the subtleties of acceleration and acceleration. This is one of the benefits of going below 50.

The problem with going under 50 though is that the game is not made to compensate for the drop in acceleration among the spread of players that can't keep up with the longer distances. If the game could allow them to maintain their acceleration that would eliminate the point of a speed threshold slider. The longer the distance the more the fatties can't keep up and exhaust them.

"the race doesn't go to the swift nor the battle to the strong... but chance comes to us all"

that's how I see it ^ wise words from the scriptures.. 50+ gives Everyone a chance because the race becomes more life like football and not a track meet.

That's why I coined the term "the Gospel of Madden" because I came to the exact same conclusions working in the lab....

Mr. Hanz, YOU ARE 100% accurate on this subject and I have reams and reams of lab data to support it..... Anyone and everyone who needs to understand SPEED THRESH, MUST READ this POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 'Nuff said....

[charter04]

Re: Speed threshold and game speed

This is good stuff. I know for a fact that in this years Madden higher threshold doesn't mean you won't have speed separation between players. I just had a D. Murray run where he broke a long one and ran away from the DBs. I'm going to try very slow, 75+ threshold and see how animations and foot planting play out. Anyone tried that yet?