So many dropped INTs..

[xx13cloud]

Why the heck do my corners and safties neverrr catch anything? ball will legit just go right to them and nope. i see other peoples dynasties they always get INTs every game and i just drafted Waddell so idk is there a certain slider i should use?

[browns_nation]

Re: So many dropped INTs..

I have this happen alot too and getting an interception is so completely random. you would think the stat related to these things are awareness, catching, and learning but take anwar phillips for example, this guy has an over all of 68 with man coverage-83 and zone coverage 80 but his awareness and learning are both in the 40's. however, the first year I had him he had 11 interceptions.

I'm sure it has to do with perhaps your defensive back strategy and your defensive backs coaching skills. anyone else can chime in on this?

[jesrockz]

Re: So many dropped INTs..

I think it's all about having stud coaching. Although sometimes it has to do with the QB that you're playing. Every time I have a game against Troy Smith, my team tears him up. I just played a game against that idiot and picked him off 8 times!!

If my team picked off just 50% of the passes that hit them in the hands, I'd have over 10 picks a game. How realistic would that be? I think where the game is unrealistic is the fact that the QB's are constantly throwing it right to the defense. The game makes up for that by not allowing you to catch most of them.

[Wheeler Dealer]

Re: So many dropped INTs..

So do you think the result of the play is determined and then the program gives you a display of what that might have looked like? If so your concern is over how realistic the display is, not the simulation.

Or are all these factors put together into a working model that we see played out in real time? (This sounds very unlikely to me.)

[Skarecrow]

Re: So many dropped INTs..

The game only has so many animations. I'm positive it uses animations that are not wholly appropriate to the result the RNG dictated. I've seen facemask penalties where the defender tackled the receiver in the knees for instance. A lot.

In this context, I think that the game reuses the "I almost caught it!" animation by DBs and even LBs to also mean "batted down".

On the same line of thought, the game will even use vocal queues that are not wholly appropriate, sometimes not appropriate at all. ever thrown a heck of a pass for 19 or 20 yards and a first down into your opponent's redzone, and then have your offensive coordinator start bitching about how people are draging tail once they get out of position? or how about your defensive coordinator chip in with a "well done" (no sarcasm at all) when offensive line commits a false start penalty? happens all the time.

[Wheeler Dealer]

Re: So many dropped INTs..

I'm sure you are right.

One of the stranger miscues is when a coach announces a penalty before the pass is thrown and it turns out to be Pass interference!

I have seen some animations that made me scratch my head though. For example, when a pass bounces off a couple of players before landing in the arms of a defender. It gives the feeling that the result is being determined on the screen when clearly that would be a programing challenge as complex as our space flights!

[jesrockz]

Re: So many dropped INTs..

The game only has so many animations. I'm positive it uses animations that are not wholly appropriate to the result the RNG dictated. I've seen facemask penalties where the defender tackled the receiver in the knees for instance. A lot.

On the flip side of this point, I see guys spun around and drug down by their facemask all the time and it's never called. It appears that they goofed up that part of the programming.

[jesrockz]

Re: So many dropped INTs..

So do you think the result of the play is determined and then the program gives you a display of what that might have looked like?

I let my OC and DC call all of my plays. From playing games out and playing games in Super Sim, here's just a few things that I've noticed that are different between the two:

1. I get more INT's on defense when I play the game out.
2. I have stud CB's and I rarely see a INT returned for a TD in the Sim. I see it when playing the game out quite often.
3. All Kickers are more accurate in the Sim.
4. My QB throws more picks when playing the game.
5. My running game is MUCH better when playing the game. Especially my small handful of created plays.
6. There are more injuries when playing the game.
7. There are more penalties called when playing the game.


I wrote this list off the top of my head in just minutes. I'm sure I could add a ton more to it if I really wanted to take notes for a few weeks, as I'm sure most of you could too.

But here's my point: If each play were "pre-simulated" and the animation on the screen was just to show you what it looked like, then why are there so many glaring differences between a Sim and a played game? If that theory were correct, you'd see a lot more consistency between the two....wouldn't you?

[Wheeler Dealer]

Re: So many dropped INTs..

I copied this from MRS thread "Knowledge form the Past". In addition to being a coach in NFL HC09 Chris Staymates was one of the developers.

A bit from Chris Staymates on how the sim game differs from the played game:

<table style="margin-top:5px;margin-bottom:5px;width:90%;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td width="75"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="50"> <tbody><tr> <td width="37"> </td> <td style="background-image: url('/vBulletin/images/quotes/07.gif');width:1px;height:24px;background-position:center;" valign="middle" width="100%"> Quote:</td> <td> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td align="left">
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</td> <td align="left"> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="background-image: url('/vBulletin/images/quotes/04.gif');width:37px;height:1px;" width="37">
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</td> <td style="background-image: url('/vBulletin/images/quotes/00.gif');width:100%;height:1px;" width="100%"> I have been playing the game for a while now and have found that this is more likely to happen (you losing a lot) when simming instead of playing or supersimming...my theory is that you being an low rated coach counts much more against you when you sim rather than supersim or play.

CHRIS-Your coach rating will count against you equally in the sim and the game. However, when you play the game...whats the best way to describe it...the penalties are more "spread out" among your team and the length of the game.

There are 1000s of dice rolls going on "under the hood" so to speak, when all the players are on the field. In the interest of keeping sim-times reasonable (I won't say fast) there are more like 10s of dice rolls.
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</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

[jesrockz]

Re: So many dropped INTs..

I copied this from MRS thread "Knowledge form the Past". In addition to being a coach in NFL HC09 Chris Staymates was one of the developers.

A bit from Chris Staymates on how the sim game differs from the played game:

<table style="margin-top:5px;margin-bottom:5px;width:90%;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="75"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="50"><tbody><tr><td width="37"> </td><td style="background-image: url('/vBulletin/images/quotes/07.gif');width:1px;height:24px;background-position:center;" valign="middle" width="100%"> Quote:</td><td> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td><td align="left">
</td><td align="right" width="100%"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="100%"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="background-image: url('/vBulletin/images/quotes/11.gif');width:100%;height:24px;" width="100%">
</td><td align="left"> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="background-image: url('/vBulletin/images/quotes/04.gif');width:37px;height:1px;" width="37">
</td><td style="background-image: url('/vBulletin/images/quotes/00.gif');width:100%;height:1px;" width="100%">
</td><td style="background-image: url('/vBulletin/images/quotes/05.gif');width:18px;height:1px;" width="18">
</td></tr><tr><td style="background-image: url('/vBulletin/images/quotes/04.gif');width:37px;height:1px;" width="37">
</td><td style="background-image: url('/vBulletin/images/quotes/00.gif');width:100%;height:1px;" width="100%"> I have been playing the game for a while now and have found that this is more likely to happen (you losing a lot) when simming instead of playing or supersimming...my theory is that you being an low rated coach counts much more against you when you sim rather than supersim or play.

CHRIS-Your coach rating will count against you equally in the sim and the game. However, when you play the game...whats the best way to describe it...the penalties are more "spread out" among your team and the length of the game.

There are 1000s of dice rolls going on "under the hood" so to speak, when all the players are on the field. In the interest of keeping sim-times reasonable (I won't say fast) there are more like 10s of dice rolls.
</td><td style="background-image: url('/vBulletin/images/quotes/05.gif');width:18px;height:1px;" width="18">
</td></tr><tr><td width="37"> </td><td style="background-image: url('/vBulletin/images/quotes/02.gif');width:100%;height:14px;" width="100%">
</td><td width="18">
</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

Yes, I remember reading this. But it still doesn't answer the question of whether the game is "flowing" or is the play "simmed" as soon as both sides choose a play and then just played out in an animation.

[Wheeler Dealer]

Re: So many dropped INTs..

You are right, that isn't the same question.

My initial reaction is that simulating and then presenting would be trivial compared to simulating while the play is in progress.

But then there's Madden, input during the play obviously impacts the results.

I should stop talking while there is some doubt about my competence!

[jesrockz]

Re: So many dropped INTs..

Another thing to consider.......haven't we all had those very strange plays like this one: a ball is in the air, bounces off a few people, then is intercepted, then the intercepting player makes some sweet moves and fumbles! The other team grabs the fumble and then they fumble!

It happened to me recently. Now are you telling me that all that was simulated before I was shown the animation? I'm not saying that it wasn't, but it seems like it plays out in real time to me.....like Madden.

[algoody421]

Re: So many dropped INTs..

Interceptions dont happen nearly as often as dropped ones in the real nfl. Thats why your cbs drop so many, because they cant catch based on their ratings. Just because you think they should catch it doesnt mean they should. Good sliders limit interceptions to 2 a game per team max usually with rare games where you out class them or they/you, a qb doesnt have the arm strength to throw in 20 mph wind/rain/snow, or your/their oline cant stop the pass rush causing forced passes into coverage.

But as chris staymates wrote, when you sim or supersim, there are less dice being rolled to determine the outcome of the play. So when you play the game yourself, you could have as many as 1000 dice rolls EVERY PLAY based on whats happening for every player on the field. When you're simming its closer to 100 max.

Thats because while playing the game the cpu can actually see the play as it plays out to determine the outcome, based on how it was called by both sides(formation play type learning), how they line up against each other and the individual ratings per player.

But when you simulate, its practically only matching play knowledge of main players involved and only the most important ratings to the plays called.(ie a running play the rbs attributes are really important and the defenses attributes for tackling and awarness, etc). In otherwords, less things are being calculated when you sim compared to when you play the game.

You will always have more dynamic/random games when you actually play them compared to simming and supersimming. Sliders are the last bit of the equations when it comes to determining what happens in either way of playing. Just because there arent as many rolls of the dice when choosing what happens during simming or supersimming, doesnt mean the sliders arent still in effect, they TOTALLY are, and they have a big effect on how the game sims.

I proved that with my video of a full seasons stats on my sliders(never adjusting them once from preseason to the end of the regular season(still havent and wont cause they're perfect).

To test this, just sim a new season with a previous coach(go to the simulation part of the rotating menu and pick end of season) or finish the season you're on and stop ****ing with the sliders. You will see how the stats end up after a full 16 game season on your sliders and how much different my sliders change the game and the stats in both simmed(even games you're not a part of) and unsimmed games.

Major differences include no 6000 yard 60+td passers EVER as its never ****ing happened! Rarely any 5000 yard passers or much over 40 tds, no 10 interceptions plus for multiple defensive players in a season sometimes not even 1 will, Brandon marshall doesnt get 300 yards a game on 20 catches, etc.

[Wheeler Dealer]

Re: So many dropped INTs..

Another thing to consider.......haven't we all had those very strange plays like this one: a ball is in the air, bounces off a few people, then is intercepted, then the intercepting player makes some sweet moves and fumbles! The other team grabs the fumble and then they fumble!

It happened to me recently. Now are you telling me that all that was simulated before I was shown the animation? I'm not saying that it wasn't, but it seems like it plays out in real time to me.....like Madden.

I give. I started out leaning the other way but the Madden similarity convinced me. Just last night I had a pass bounce off my receiver's hands, off a defender's head, spin end over end up in the air and land in the arms of another one of my receivers who then took it 49 yards for a TD!