Is "Skill-Based" scoring possible in a hockey game?

[06woz]

Just wondering what the consensus is on this question, to spark somewhat of a discussion. I hope this doesn't come off as a "bashing" post, it's not what I intend it to be.

I recently played some NBA 2K with a friend, my first time playing the 2K series since 2k10 and one thing amazed me. The scoring felt rewarding. I felt that if I scored it was because I put the right player in a favorable situation and executed my shot correctly.

Flash over to the NHL series. Now I'm not sure if this is a lack of player differentiation, goaltending, AI, physics or some combination of the bunch. Whatever the case, this is how I see scoring in EA's NHL series:

1. Make saving the puck impossible via a highlight reel deke or one timer. Probably a little too commonplace in this game.
2. A dirty goal! This is undoubtedly a part of hockey, and we might not see enough of this actually. Pucks on net leading to scrambles and rebounds.
3. Getting a player in a decent position, shoot and hope it beats the goalie. Repeat until successful.

Sure there is a little bit of skill to be had aiming the puck, but honestly just firing short side is probably more effective and goalie AI kind of skews this.

But then I thought, is this possible in a hockey game? Sure, maybe some improvements like top tier players not missing wide open nets would help. But "dirty" goals aside, is there a way to make a hockey video game in which shooting to score is a skill, and not just luck based?

For what it's worth I think any attempt to do so has to start with a revamp of the goalie AI and animation.

[tofubrain2]

Re: Is "Skill-Based" scoring possible in a hockey game?

I understand what you are getting at here. I feel the same way.

It's like the results are all scripted and don't flow organically... the CPU acts the same way regardless of team, the puck bounces seem forced. I would like to see more of an organic gameplay experience at this stage of the PS3, but we will probably have to wait til the PS4.

[Majingir]

Re: Is "Skill-Based" scoring possible in a hockey game?

^lol ya, it has to be scripted. Anytime I see the CPU get into certain positions, I no longer even try to stop them cause I know something will happen for sure.

The game needs a HUGE upgrade. Puck bounces go directly to the CPU players, CPU passes are perfect, pucks will get knocked away if you're near the CPU, but CPU has puck glued to their stick if they're near your player.

And if CPU hits your guy, you lose the puck,and if you hit the CPU, he isn't impacted at all(if anything,hitting the CPU player causes more negatives for you than positives).

NBA 2K made by 2K sports and NHL is made by EA Sports. So that's why NBA has good stuff while NHL doesn't. Some things in NHL games I've seen happening ever since the previous console generation days. And with EAs "physics system" it just makes everything worse. EA added new physics stuff last year(or year before?) and it's made the game worse. System is half broken, and EA never fixes it.

Unfortunately, nobody will ever be able to do anything about it, cause too many people buy the game every year so it won't be a bother to EA Sports if people complain about stuff.

[1387sportscraver]

Re: Is "Skill-Based" scoring possible in a hockey game?

Yeah sorry dude but until ea gets competition don't expect anything groundbreaking to our standards but honestly that stuff wouldn't bother me so much if everything else wasn't so poorly executed in the game considering fact that with madden the gameplay is solid and game modes are bad with NHL 13 the gameplayis bad but the game modes are solid where's the happy medium

[06woz]

Re: Is "Skill-Based" scoring possible in a hockey game?

So the solution is: Hope 2K dropped out to work on their next gen(PS4, Xbox: Whatever) hockey game?

[Mikey88]

Re: Is "Skill-Based" scoring possible in a hockey game?

My question to you guys is - Why bother playing the CPU?
Its all about online versus, GM connected and EASHL!

I can honestly tell you i have never played the CPU once in NHL 13. Online is where its at. The games are much more random and varied when playing games versus human opponents than the boring scripted CPU.

[06woz]

Re: Is "Skill-Based" scoring possible in a hockey game?

My question to you guys is - Why bother playing the CPU?
Its all about online versus, GM connected and EASHL!

I can honestly tell you i have never played the CPU once in NHL 13. Online is where its at. The games are much more random and varied when playing games versus human opponents than the boring scripted CPU.

My original post was in reference to Online play. It still all applies, save for EASHL, then you can take out anything about the AI.

[Steven547]

Re: Is "Skill-Based" scoring possible in a hockey game?

My original post was in reference to Online play. It still all applies, save for EASHL, then you can take out anything about the AI.

Online wise, I can't really speak to that. I don't play online anymore....not a lot of "realistic" play type people anymore (this applies to all types of online sports games). But, that's just me.

Offline? Yes, you can get skill based results. You said so yourself with the NBA 2K series. I experienced similar to this when NHL 2K was around. To me, I feel the sliders play too much of a role in this game and it takes away from the players skills. Honestly, I think FIFA / PES has it right. They have very few sliders, and the game plays more to the skills.

[Raddus]

Re: Is "Skill-Based" scoring possible in a hockey game?

That's funny. I feel NHL13 is the first one to have really fluid scoring. I've seen so many goal types that were nearly impossible in prior iterations of the game.

So many goals off of timely rebounds, strategic caroms off the boards, deflections, tips, etc.

Most realistic one yet, imo. However, it does still need a lot of work.


If you ask me, the biggest problem with the NHL games is the vast majority of players have no hockey sense. Judging by the sheer inexperience/stupidity I see online.

[thedudedominick]

Re: Is "Skill-Based" scoring possible in a hockey game?

That's funny. I feel NHL13 is the first one to have really fluid scoring. I've seen so many goal types that were nearly impossible in prior iterations of the game.

So many goals off of timely rebounds, strategic caroms off the boards, deflections, tips, etc.

Most realistic one yet, imo. However, it does still need a lot of work.


If you ask me, the biggest problem with the NHL games is the vast majority of players have no hockey sense. Judging by the sheer inexperience/stupidity I see online.

This, plus playing online you run into guys who care little about the sport of hockey itself and only care about the leaderboards. They just use whatever broken game mechanics they can find to get wins so their name will somehow get elevated.

I will say some of the most fun I've had playing this game though is a GM Connected with me and a couple buddies all playing on the same team doing position lock. The games tended to get realistic results and with the settings we were using got good gameplay, shots, and varied scoring. Plus the CPU is actually challenging if you get stuck chasing the puck instead of playing positionally.

[Keso Paghuni]

Re: Is "Skill-Based" scoring possible in a hockey game?

Human vs. Human then of course there is skill involved

[noles367]

Re: Is "Skill-Based" scoring possible in a hockey game?

I think you nailed it with lack of player differentiation. Take the overalls away and look at the ratings. Any decent forward will have pretty much all their offensive skills between 80-90. The difference between a 20-25 goal scorer and a 40 goal scorer is just a few points in the game.

I know they changed to ratings to be a little broader this year, but it needs to be done more.

[thedudedominick]

Re: Is "Skill-Based" scoring possible in a hockey game?

I think you nailed it with lack of player differentiation. Take the overalls away and look at the ratings. Any decent forward will have pretty much all their offensive skills between 80-90. The difference between a 20-25 goal scorer and a 40 goal scorer is just a few points in the game.

I know they changed to ratings to be a little broader this year, but it needs to be done more.

If they do make the gap wider it might hurt the actual in game play. These are all NHL players and all can hit an open net with a shot. If you start giving guys 50 overall shots then in game they shoot it super weak, and can't even get a shot on net. They would have to really change the way the ratings mattered in gameplay to make a wide difference.

Of course if you play on default settings/ online shot accuracy is already way too high. My EASHL guy has 80 overall accuracy, but I can pretty much hit any spot I want with a shot. We need the default game to be sloppier and less like an all-star game, but EA refuses to do this because they don't want to scare off casual players. That is also the reason they don't make everything that is a penalty get called. They should call every boarding, charging, and interference but they don't for fear it would lose them customers. They struggle to find the balance between "fun" and "sim" for their online and default settings.

[BeardedOne]

Re: Is "Skill-Based" scoring possible in a hockey game?

I think EA is catering to the masses with their default rosters and sliders. It takes a different mindset to play simulation style hockey; not everyone has the patience.

That said, for offline games, I was able to get the kind of results you're looking for by downloading the The NHL Revamped rosters and using Cycloniac's TrueSim sliders. My Be A GM mode is awesome! Varied scoring, goal scorers stand out, grinders and power forwards are hard to move from the net, and goalies are human. The puck gets knocked loose so much more.

[milesizdead]

Re: Is "Skill-Based" scoring possible in a hockey game?

I think this year is better at rewarding nice plays than before, especially since the goalies take away the "easy" goals from previous iterations.

You just have to adjust the way you play, pass earlier and maybe even pass the puck back before the shot. Don't push for the NHL12 xcrease that people thought was "skill" last year.

Make the goalie move with the passing plays, and scoring chances will be there.

Good game EA.