Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

[Bobhead]

What are you seeing? What problems immediately jump out at you? I have no idea if this type of thread will, or can, succeed, but I'll give it a shot.

I know a lot of guys are looking to publish their sliders as soon as possible, but sample size always presents a problem. With this thread I hope guys can confirm observations with each other, reinforcing ideas and thoughts, and reducing (but not erasing) the need for extensive testing/sample evaluation.

For example, let's say fielders throw with too little power out of the box. Ideally you'd want to play a few games and give yourself a definitive opinion on that issue, because there's always a chance you just thought wrong. But if 20 other users agree with you and see the same thing, that chance of you being incorrect is a lot smaller, and maybe you'll only need to play 3-8 games to confirm something, instead of 15-30.

Maybe someone is recording The Show stats for a particular area, that might be beneficial?

Communication and collaboration can do nothing but save time for yourself and others.

[BrianU]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

Good idea. I don't get the game/my system till Monday but I am OCD when it comes to perfecting sliders so I know i'll have much to contribute this year. I am an outside the box thinker. I enjoy seeing what other people come up with and how they have different playing styles. You can have two different people play the same sliders/settings and have radical different outcomes so I try to explain my playing style in the slider set I'm making.

Sometimes you can't get the desired outcome from adjusting a slider and thats when I try to come up with nifty 'house rules' to make things more realistic.

I've never kept track of stats before, my style of making sliders is to play 1 game and adjust things overkill and keep repeating the process till I get where I want it but this year I think I will try to be more methodical. I was thinking of how I can make a spreadsheet to track games then remembered this thread I read a few days ago and found this:

I sim a lot of my games, so I keep this spreadsheet for stat tracking of games I play.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1FG...it?usp=sharing

He did an excellent job at making that it makes tracking stats much easier and adds the totals up for you! The only thing I don't see working is per game stats but i'll figure it out. Definitely excited to finding out how to get the most out of this game and helping others achieve that too for all playing styles

[Majingir]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

From the games I've played so far, main thing is that amount of balls the CPU throws needs to be decreased(and likely same thing for users as well,just not as much as CPU).

Might just try decreasing that first to see how default sliders are like,if CPU starts walking people.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

Good idea here.

I have basically only played one game myself, and I've watched a few cpu vs. cpu games. I like to watch some cpu games at first to get a handle on how the gameplay performs at default.

So far, I'm a tad worried about the baserunning. It seems the aggressiveness of the cpu baserunners has been toned down a lot. While I like that in some respects, I've seen quite a bit of station to station baserunning so far. Many times runners are not scoring from 2nd base with 2 outs on singles to the outfield.

In one instance, there were runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out. A fly ball to right field was one where it was questionable whether the right fielder would get to it. In fact he short hopped it. The runner on 3rd had some indecision about the play and ended up staying on 3rd. So there was a single to right field with a runner on 3rd and he never went home. You never see that.

I'm thinking adjustments to fielder arm strength and baserunning speed could make the cpu more aggressive. I guess the worry would be how would if affect infield play. Would you in turn see too many infield hits by adjusting too much?

[BrianU]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

Good idea here.

I have basically only played one game myself, and I've watched a few cpu vs. cpu games. I like to watch some cpu games at first to get a handle on how the gameplay performs at default.

So far, I'm a tad worried about the baserunning. It seems the aggressiveness of the cpu baserunners has been toned down a lot. While I like that in some respects, I've seen quite a bit of station to station baserunning so far. Many times runners are not scoring from 2nd base with 2 outs on singles to the outfield.

In one instance, there were runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out. A fly ball to right field was one where it was questionable whether the right fielder would get to it. In fact he short hopped it. The runner on 3rd had some indecision about the play and ended up staying on 3rd. So there was a single to right field with a runner on 3rd and he never went home. You never see that.

I'm thinking adjustments to fielder arm strength and baserunning speed could make the cpu more aggressive. I guess the worry would be how would if affect infield play. Would you in turn see too many infield hits by adjusting too much?

That is a great detailed observation. I hope/wish the devs read the Slider forum I feel the discussion here is a better place to tweak the game from. If you see a pattern of this maybe you can post it in the bugs thread or make a new post on the front so the devs take a look at it that sounds like a rather important issue and one that shouldn't be too difficult to patch

[Bobhead]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

From the games I've played so far, main thing is that amount of balls the CPU throws needs to be decreased(and likely same thing for users as well,just not as much as CPU).

Might just try decreasing that first to see how default sliders are like,if CPU starts walking people.

So you think the CPU throws too many balls? That's something I've never ever read before about this game. Not that I'm questioning you, I haven't actually spent much time with the game yet, it's just a surprising thing to read.

[Bobhead]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

What is offense looking like for other people? Going into release I was expecting to encounter slightly high offensive numbers, considering all the hype about the offensive changes. Unfortunately that's exactly what I've seen thus far.

While I've been busy with other things, I've been running CPU vs CPU games in the background all day today. I have the data uploaded for anyone who wants to look. It's the same spreadsheet that's in my sig, and pretty similar to the one I maintained last year.

[BrianU]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

What is offense looking like for other people? Going into release I was expecting to encounter slightly high offensive numbers, considering all the hype about the offensive changes. Unfortunately that's exactly what I've seen thus far.

While I've been busy with other things, I've been running CPU vs CPU games in the background all day today. I have the data uploaded for anyone who wants to look. It's the same spreadsheet that's in my sig, and pretty similar to the one I maintained last year.

That's a great idea to get a hold on things. Does CPU vs CPU games use difficulty levels? Like doesn't the CPU pitch different strike percentages if you select Legend hitting vs All star hitting, so does that setting matter in CPU vs CPU or what level would CPU vs CPU equate to?

Can you use these tests as a base to adjust Human vs CPU sliders I guess is what i'm saying or does the CPU behave different when playing against a human

[MLB Bob]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

Seeing huge amounts of offense. I can't be insanely better all of a sudden. I use to use guess pitch and with out it I'm cranking everything

[Sweed]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

What I'm seeing is runners having a hard time getting what should be easy doubles.

Hit one down the LF line into the corner and the runner just beat the throw with the LF having a lot of ground to cover just to get to the ball.

Late in the same game LHB hooks a ball into the RF corner I'm thinking as he's leaving the box "don't get thrown out trying to stretch it to a triple". Yeah well, he would have been out sliding into 2b by 5 feet if the throw hadn't pulled the ss away from the bag. This one should have been a standup double with the guy being at least tempted to try for three.

Not sure if the fix would be to increase baserunner speed or to decrease OF speed. The way the OF seem to get to gappers and cut off balls rolling to the gap I'm leaning towards taking OF speed back a click and see how it goes. I just don't want the game to turn into a doubles fest if the OF end up letting everything get by. But then I haven't played enough yet to know if the game is generating enough doubles on the default AS level I'm playing at.

From some ground ball plays in the IF I could almost argue an increase to baserunner speed is also needed. I've hit a couple of slow taps to the left side where the 3b had to charge and did a quick off balance throw to get the runner. Announcer also commented on how he had to hurry and made a nice play. Trouble is he didn't have to hurry he threw the runner out by 5 steps. Could have easily set and make a sure throw. It was like the IF and announcer knew this should be a close play and both did what they should, hurried to make the throw and the announcer making a positive comment about the good play he just saw. Only the runner just didn't have the speed to make the play even kind of close.

I'm thinking when I play tomorrow I'll do the combo fix, IE OF down one click, baserunners up one click, and leave IF the same (at least IIRC IF and OF speed each have a slider, right?).

FWIW I am, at least so far, happy with the total number of hits per game for both teams. It's not like the OF get to everything and nothing drops in, they just get there so quickly its hard to get extra bases. So, by decreasing OF speed I don't want to get more hits just slow down their ability to get to the ball so quickly.

Anyway, with my small sample size (3 games) just posting here to see if others are experiencing the same thing?

[Majingir]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

So you think the CPU throws too many balls? That's something I've never ever read before about this game. Not that I'm questioning you, I haven't actually spent much time with the game yet, it's just a surprising thing to read.

lol, don't know why I said that. I did mean strikes.

I moved it down 2 to the left and CPU threw more balls which was good.

[Tecumseh_81]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

What I'm seeing is runners having a hard time getting what should be easy doubles.

Hit one down the LF line into the corner and the runner just beat the throw with the LF having a lot of ground to cover just to get to the ball.

Late in the same game LHB hooks a ball into the RF corner I'm thinking as he's leaving the box "don't get thrown out trying to stretch it to a triple". Yeah well, he would have been out sliding into 2b by 5 feet if the throw hadn't pulled the ss away from the bag. This one should have been a standup double with the guy being at least tempted to try for three.

Not sure if the fix would be to increase baserunner speed or to decrease OF speed. The way the OF seem to get to gappers and cut off balls rolling to the gap I'm leaning towards taking OF speed back a click and see how it goes. I just don't want the game to turn into a doubles fest if the OF end up letting everything get by. But then I haven't played enough yet to know if the game is generating enough doubles on the default AS level I'm playing at.

From some ground ball plays in the IF I could almost argue an increase to baserunner speed is also needed. I've hit a couple of slow taps to the left side where the 3b had to charge and did a quick off balance throw to get the runner. Announcer also commented on how he had to hurry and made a nice play. Trouble is he didn't have to hurry he threw the runner out by 5 steps. Could have easily set and make a sure throw. It was like the IF and announcer knew this should be a close play and both did what they should, hurried to make the throw and the announcer making a positive comment about the good play he just saw. Only the runner just didn't have the speed to make the play even kind of close.

I'm thinking when I play tomorrow I'll do the combo fix, IE OF down one click, baserunners up one click, and leave IF the same (at least IIRC IF and OF speed each have a slider, right?).

FWIW I am, at least so far, happy with the total number of hits per game for both teams. It's not like the OF get to everything and nothing drops in, they just get there so quickly its hard to get extra bases. So, by decreasing OF speed I don't want to get more hits just slow down their ability to get to the ball so quickly.

Anyway, with my small sample size (3 games) just posting here to see if others are experiencing the same thing?

I've noticed the same thing with the outfielders. The ball doesn't die out like last year, but it seems like the outfielders cover a lot more ground.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

What I'm seeing is runners having a hard time getting what should be easy doubles.

Hit one down the LF line into the corner and the runner just beat the throw with the LF having a lot of ground to cover just to get to the ball.

Late in the same game LHB hooks a ball into the RF corner I'm thinking as he's leaving the box "don't get thrown out trying to stretch it to a triple". Yeah well, he would have been out sliding into 2b by 5 feet if the throw hadn't pulled the ss away from the bag. This one should have been a standup double with the guy being at least tempted to try for three.

Not sure if the fix would be to increase baserunner speed or to decrease OF speed. The way the OF seem to get to gappers and cut off balls rolling to the gap I'm leaning towards taking OF speed back a click and see how it goes. I just don't want the game to turn into a doubles fest if the OF end up letting everything get by. But then I haven't played enough yet to know if the game is generating enough doubles on the default AS level I'm playing at.

From some ground ball plays in the IF I could almost argue an increase to baserunner speed is also needed. I've hit a couple of slow taps to the left side where the 3b had to charge and did a quick off balance throw to get the runner. Announcer also commented on how he had to hurry and made a nice play. Trouble is he didn't have to hurry he threw the runner out by 5 steps. Could have easily set and make a sure throw. It was like the IF and announcer knew this should be a close play and both did what they should, hurried to make the throw and the announcer making a positive comment about the good play he just saw. Only the runner just didn't have the speed to make the play even kind of close.

I'm thinking when I play tomorrow I'll do the combo fix, IE OF down one click, baserunners up one click, and leave IF the same (at least IIRC IF and OF speed each have a slider, right?).

FWIW I am, at least so far, happy with the total number of hits per game for both teams. It's not like the OF get to everything and nothing drops in, they just get there so quickly its hard to get extra bases. So, by decreasing OF speed I don't want to get more hits just slow down their ability to get to the ball so quickly.

Anyway, with my small sample size (3 games) just posting here to see if others are experiencing the same thing?

Definitely experiencing some of the same issues. I've been doing some cpu vs. cpu games to sort of do an eye test. Not enough games yet to accumulate stats.

I bumped baserunner speed to 6, lowered fielder run speed to 4, and also lowered fielder arm strength all the way down to 2. I like what I've seen so far.

I think the speed in which the ball gets back into the infield on default is the problem with doubles and runners advancing an extra base on singles. That's the reason for the drastic arm strength drop.

[Sweed]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

Definitely experiencing some of the same issues. I've been doing some cpu vs. cpu games to sort of do an eye test. Not enough games yet to accumulate stats.

I bumped baserunner speed to 6, lowered fielder run speed to 4, and also lowered fielder arm strength all the way down to 2. I like what I've seen so far.

I think the speed in which the ball gets back into the infield on default is the problem with doubles and runners advancing an extra base on singles. That's the reason for the drastic arm strength drop.

Thanks for the reply and suggestions. I had considered doing arm also but was going to go with just speed settings first. Seeing how you are happy with lowering arm strength I'm going to give it a go too.

[BrianU]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

Definitely experiencing some of the same issues. I've been doing some cpu vs. cpu games to sort of do an eye test. Not enough games yet to accumulate stats.

I bumped baserunner speed to 6, lowered fielder run speed to 4, and also lowered fielder arm strength all the way down to 2. I like what I've seen so far.

I think the speed in which the ball gets back into the infield on default is the problem with doubles and runners advancing an extra base on singles. That's the reason for the drastic arm strength drop.

I don't have the game yet but I was concerned when someone mentioned the baserunner AI and how the CPU doesn't take the extra base even when they can. Does changing the fielders arm strength or baserunner speed change that behavior?

I assumed the AI's baserunning was hard coded but if the base runner decides when to take another base based on the fielders arm speed/his chance of making it in safe then that sounds great