How to make teams play the way they do in real life.

[Fitz4311]

This is kind of a deal breaker for me, as I stopped playing 2k13 because no teams play like they do in real life. Tried custom rosters and custom sliders yet no one has figured this out, because 2k screwed it up. Does anyone have any ideas?

[UnfriendlyBG]

Re: How to make teams play the way they do in real life.

can u give any examples?

[tril]

Re: How to make teams play the way they do in real life.

I dont see this. However there will be games where star players will have terrible shooting nights.

[bigtreydawg]

Re: How to make teams play the way they do in real life.

This is kind of a deal breaker for me, as I stopped playing 2k13 because no teams play like they do in real life. Tried custom rosters and custom sliders yet no one has figured this out, because 2k screwed it up. Does anyone have any ideas?

This is a very vague question so ill give you a specific answer.

The custom rosters are wonderful for good stats and better gameplay than 2k default roster but if you want teams to use the plays they actually use in real life than that requires intimate knowledge of each teams offensive set. I've been working on that aspect of this game tirelessly for 2 months and have completed ... 2 teams. That's it. The Spurs and the Grizzlies.

The Spurs were the hardest so we'll start there. Unlike the rest of the league (with the exception of a few teams) the Spurs don't run most of their offense from the HORNS set. (Utah has a similar system, the Knicks spread the court and drive kick for the 3, the thunder use a high screen for Durant which in this game is called FLOPPY, and the Lakers are having a year long identity crisis). The Spurs run a motion offense that swings to the weak side. This often leads to Tim Duncan on the top of the key to decide on whether or not he wants to shoot a midrange jumper or pass out to keep the offense going.

So you figure this shouldn't be hard to replicate, there are plenty of pick and pop plays within the playbook. All I have to do is assign a few to Duncan as the roll man and Parker as the ballhandler.

First try: the spurs are not using Duncan as the roll man enough because Post High and Post Low are of higher priority.

Ok, switch it.

Second try: they're calling pick plays but not the pick and fade mid plays.

Duncan's drive the lane tendency is too high (43) so he is predominately a roll to the basketball player. I switched it to 23.

Third try: now they're passing the ball to him but he's fading to the wrong locations.

I go to Duncan's hotspots and make his top of key hotspot tendency 90 and split the rest at the baseline positions.

Fourth try: Now he is in the right spot but he doesn't know what to do there he won't shoot. He just jab steps and passes away.

I got to his tendencies and increase pull up from zero to 20.

Fifth try: he gets the pass dribbles once and pulls up directly in front of his defender and air balls it.

I go to his triple threat tendency and raise shoot from triple threat and lower his no triple threat tendency from 99 to 50

Sixth try: he gets the pass at the top of the key, pump fakes, goes into the one dribble animation and gets stripped.

I then pause the game. Think about using the disk as a frisbee and choose instead to go back to his tendencies. It turns out that the combination of pull up and shoot from triple threat acts as a slider for one dribble pull up animations.

I lower his pull up back to zero and keep shoot from triple threat and walla!

Tim Duncan is now real life Tim Duncan.

Keep in mind this is just one person on a rotation of ten people running a complicated offense.

My personal opinion is it takes a legit psychopath with a lot of free time and extensive knowledge of every team in the league to get a team to play like they do in real life. But it can be done.

I haven't even touched on play calling by the way.

[iceman823]

Re: How to make teams play the way they do in real life.

sick man just sick, but nice

[Fitz4311]

Re: How to make teams play the way they do in real life.

Thanks for the posts guys, what I meant specifically is how to get the Nuggets to try and run you out of the gym, the heat to take fast breaks, but have the ability to beat you in a slowed pace. And teams like the grizzlies and such to play there slow grind it out pace. My main gripe with this is how to have teams establish the pace that they play in real life.

[saaddzz]

Re: How to make teams play the way they do in real life.

Try Tomba's Coach Profile Sliders, they can help you. The Coach Sliders he gave makes the players play as how they're tendencies are.

http://www.operationsports.com/Tomba...fix-version-1/

[bigtreydawg]

Re: How to make teams play the way they do in real life.

Thanks for the posts guys, what I meant specifically is how to get the Nuggets to try and run you out of the gym, the heat to take fast breaks, but have the ability to beat you in a slowed pace. And teams like the grizzlies and such to play there slow grind it out pace. My main gripe with this is how to have teams establish the pace that they play in real life.

This rendition of the game centers around playbooks more so than any other (in my opinion) so for a team like the grizzlies, here is a stripped down version of what I did to get amazing gameplay that consistently leaves you guessing where the next pass is going to go. But first play calling:

The play calling engine is really good once you understand the restrictions (2k really should have a seminar about their game).

When you go to edit player you'll see an option for whether or not this player is able to "bring the ball down court and initiate the offense." This is HUGE for what type of plays this player is capable of running.

You ever noticed the computer running the same play over and over (2 Side B, anyone?). That is happening because one or more of the wingmen has pick and roll ballhandler as his priority but he is not allowed to bring the ball up court. So even though there are a gang of plays in Stephen Jackson's or K. Lenard's plays. He can only be eligible for the plays that don't require him/them to be the point man.

Now, there are about 20 or 30 of those plays in the game but usually a team only has 1 or 2 of those plays in their playbook. This is why you see 2sideB over and over again. The same goes for midrange plays for point guards. Most midrange in this game are not for point guards but if Tony Parker has midrange as his priority he will run the one midrange plays that is designed for the ball handler.

Back to the Grizzlies. I don't know what Roster you're using (please don't tell me) but take all of the plays away and touch tendencies away from everyone who's name isn't Gasol Randolph, Conley, Pondexter.

Assign Post high to Gasol. Post low to Randolph. And find the best HORNS set that lead to these options. Conley gets pick and roll plays and Gasol and whatever other scrub big men you want get to have the roll man. Try to stay within the HORNS set for these.

The reasoning behind this is simple. As long as Free lance tendencies are accurate for every player (which presents its own problem) not every player need a play called for him. In fact you are seriously hindering your star players by giving scrubs plays. If the offense is run correctly the defensive will sag off scrubs and they will get there 4-5 shots a game that way.

This is a very stripped down version of what I did to my roster I hope it helps.

[Fitz4311]

Re: How to make teams play the way they do in real life.

Thanks guys! Helped a lot!

[Eaglerock562]

Re: How to make teams play the way they do in real life.

Legit psychopath right here for the NBA lol, free time is a luxury I'm only afforded maybe 1-2 months out of the year when I give my team a month off after our season and we take August off, but other then that between my varsity and 2K editing to get my $60 worth of a game, yeah I would classify myself as a legit psychopath for this game.

[mango_prom]

Re: How to make teams play the way they do in real life.

First try: the spurs are not using Duncan as the roll man enough because Post High and Post Low are of higher priority.

Ok, switch it.

Second try: they're calling pick plays but not the pick and fade mid plays.

Duncan's drive the lane tendency is too high (43) so he is predominately a roll to the basketball player. I switched it to 23.

Third try: now they're passing the ball to him but he's fading to the wrong locations.

I go to Duncan's hotspots and make his top of key hotspot tendency 90 and split the rest at the baseline positions.

Fourth try: Now he is in the right spot but he doesn't know what to do there he won't shoot. He just jab steps and passes away.

I got to his tendencies and increase pull up from zero to 20.

Fifth try: he gets the pass dribbles once and pulls up directly in front of his defender and air balls it.

I go to his triple threat tendency and raise shoot from triple threat and lower his no triple threat tendency from 99 to 50

Sixth try: he gets the pass at the top of the key, pump fakes, goes into the one dribble animation and gets stripped.

I then pause the game. Think about using the disk as a frisbee and choose instead to go back to his tendencies. It turns out that the combination of pull up and shoot from triple threat acts as a slider for one dribble pull up animations.

I lower his pull up back to zero and keep shoot from triple threat and walla!

Tim Duncan is now real life Tim Duncan.

Keep in mind this is just one person on a rotation of ten people running a complicated offense.

My personal opinion is it takes a legit psychopath with a lot of free time and extensive knowledge of every team in the league to get a team to play like they do in real life. But it can be done.

I haven't even touched on play calling by the way.

Lol, nice to know I'm not the only one messing around with this stuff...

First of all one question, do the changes you've tried with Duncan only apply to behaviour in a freelancing sense or also to play calling itself?
I leave coach mode always on, and haven't noticed any difference in which plays are called regardless of which tendencies I change.

Now the most idiotic part about the whole getting teams to play like real life thing is, that it's only because of lazy game development that we even need to bother.
If we could allocate individual probabilities to the freqency of each play type being called, we wouldn't even need most freelance tendencies at all. Most of the tendency stuff isn't that important if hotspots and such are already part of well designed set plays

What I mean is to assign percentages to play types for each player, so maybe 50% Low Post, 30% PnR, 20% PnP 3pt resulting in just the right distribution of different plays according to real life stats.

I don't see how this is too hard to implement. But on the other hand, this would mean that 2k actually tested playcalling and playbooks before they release the game. Looking forward to the first dev vs dev preview game for 2k14 where 2 guys show us how to run in circles with Lebron and Durant for 10 minutes...

[bigtreydawg]

Re: How to make teams play the way they do in real life.

Lol, nice to know I'm not the only one messing around with this stuff...

First of all one question, do the changes you've tried with Duncan only apply to behaviour in a freelancing sense or also to play calling itself?
I leave coach mode always on, and haven't noticed any difference in which plays are called regardless of which tendencies I change.

Now the most idiotic part about the whole getting teams to play like real life thing is, that it's only because of lazy game development that we even need to bother.
If we could allocate individual probabilities to the freqency of each play type being called, we wouldn't even need most freelance tendencies at all. Most of the tendency stuff isn't that important if hotspots and such are already part of well designed set plays

What I mean is to assign percentages to play types for each player, so maybe 50% Low Post, 30% PnR, 20% PnP 3pt resulting in just the right distribution of different plays according to real life stats.

I don't see how this is too hard to implement. But on the other hand, this would mean that 2k actually tested playcalling and playbooks before they release the game. Looking forward to the first dev vs dev preview game for 2k14 where 2 guys show us how to run in circles with Lebron and Durant for 10 minutes...

To an extent what you talked about with percentage allocation is already in the game. Just changing Tim Duncan drive the lane tendency resulted in Tim getting more pick and pop plays because of his (inflated) midrange tendency.

[STLRams]

Re: How to make teams play the way they do in real life.

This rendition of the game centers around playbooks more so than any other (in my opinion) so for a team like the grizzlies, here is a stripped down version of what I did to get amazing gameplay that consistently leaves you guessing where the next pass is going to go. But first play calling:

The play calling engine is really good once you understand the restrictions (2k really should have a seminar about their game).

When you go to edit player you'll see an option for whether or not this player is able to "bring the ball down court and initiate the offense." This is HUGE for what type of plays this player is capable of running.

You ever noticed the computer running the same play over and over (2 Side B, anyone?). That is happening because one or more of the wingmen has pick and roll ballhandler as his priority but he is not allowed to bring the ball up court. So even though there are a gang of plays in Stephen Jackson's or K. Lenard's plays. He can only be eligible for the plays that don't require him/them to be the point man.

Now, there are about 20 or 30 of those plays in the game but usually a team only has 1 or 2 of those plays in their playbook. This is why you see 2sideB over and over again. The same goes for midrange plays for point guards. Most midrange in this game are not for point guards but if Tony Parker has midrange as his priority he will run the one midrange plays that is designed for the ball handler.

Back to the Grizzlies. I don't know what Roster you're using (please don't tell me) but take all of the plays away and touch tendencies away from everyone who's name isn't Gasol Randolph, Conley, Pondexter.

Assign Post high to Gasol. Post low to Randolph. And find the best HORNS set that lead to these options. Conley gets pick and roll plays and Gasol and whatever other scrub big men you want get to have the roll man. Try to stay within the HORNS set for these.

The reasoning behind this is simple. As long as Free lance tendencies are accurate for every player (which presents its own problem) not every player need a play called for him. In fact you are seriously hindering your star players by giving scrubs plays. If the offense is run correctly the defensive will sag off scrubs and they will get there 4-5 shots a game that way.

This is a very stripped down version of what I did to my roster I hope it helps.

HUGE! I tried these two things for two so far and I saw different plays being ran and also the offense actually ran more through the star or scorers on the team. Finally saw the Spurs and Clippers go to more post plays for Tim Duncan and Blake Griffin. I don't know why I never thought about zero out touch tendencies for role players before so plays won't be wasted on them, and star players get more play options.

[bigtreydawg]

Re: How to make teams play the way they do in real life.

I've been upsetting people in this community that I really respect and I'm afraid the next one is gonna be VanWolfHawk. Because I'm about to overhaul some playbooks and push a few ideas. I hope it goes over well.

[mango_prom]

Re: How to make teams play the way they do in real life.

To an extent what you talked about with percentage allocation is already in the game. Just changing Tim Duncan drive the lane tendency resulted in Tim getting more pick and pop plays because of his (inflated) midrange tendency.

So you're talking about the "drive vs. spot up" tendency right? Meaning after a simple PnR has been called, there's a higher probability of Duncan fading away from the basket? But does this apply to the set plays as well?

Also, does this apply to the frequency of PnRs being called in the first place? Because I've seen big men fading from normal PnRs, but true fade plays are rarely being called by the CPU.
Actually, I've never seen a 3pt Pick and Fade being called by a CPU team. Now I'm not talking about a freelance screen with the big man spotting up, but the specific plays you assign to a playbook.


About the thing you've said regarding bringing the ball up court and repetitive playcalling, that's a cool find, have to try this. Still, I've found that this issue runs much deeper. I've tried different combinations of touches distributions as well as priorities of PnR plays for guards as ball handlers and also the PnR man options for big men, and the playcalling scripts are simply messed up. If you have someone like Durant with the same touches rating as some PG, the AI will mostly ignore the PG regardless of how you set up tendencies.

I've started a fantasy draft season yesterday, and it's such a mess...you have Brook Lopez getting like 5 fgas a game with Jarrett Jack shooting >20 fgas a game. I don't know how 2k intended this, but it's not working.