Running the 4-2-5 Defense

[DataBull]

Someone asked about the 4-2-5 defense and the moderator jammed it into the NCAA 14 Q & A thread. I'm not sure why, so I'll answer the question here since it is generic to all versions of NCAA.

I started running the mostly out of the 4-2-5 last year. The reality is that a lot of passing happens in college football today, and the 4-2-5 is a way to help defend that while still giving you a chance to stop the run. In this year's version especially, I have found difficulty stopping heavy run teams. Generally, if they are running into the middle of the field a blitz can help stop that. Also, I'll sometimes user the DT and try to help him bust through the line, which seems to be a bit more effective this year.

The outside run is problematic to defend since you don't have linebackers on the outside to shut that down. QB contain can work in that instance, but can open you up on the inside against a smart player. Also the base Cover 2 leaves the corners down low where they can bust up sweeps and screen passes.

In general, like most flavors of defense in NCAA, zone defense works better to shut down the run, and man works better to shut down the pass. If I have the talent, you can formation sub in the 4-2-5 to help both scenarios. With five alignments, I'll put better run support safeties in run alignments, and better pass coverage safeties and LBs in one or two of the alignments. Then I can switch between them to get help stop the run or the pass as needed.

Still, I've found the need to put 4-4 and 5-2 alignments into my playbook to slow down those teams that really rely on a power running game. The 3-4 Predator is also a good alignment to have against the run.

Hope this helps.

[Mizzou24]

What they need is a strategy sub forum... I don't know what happened to it.. Coulda sworn there used to be one..

[ThaReaper09]

Re: Running the 4-2-5 Defense

I'm really interested in running a 4-2-5 because of the athletes Michigan will have coming in and because I'm a big fan of Gary Patterson and the TCU program as a whole. I'm just very unfamiliar with it. I would really need to lab with it but thanks for the tips.

[Haze88]

Re: Running the 4-2-5 Defense

Bumping an old thread but what players do you recruit for the two super safeties, OLB, SS, or ATH? I love the concept of this defense but I have some problems recruiting the proper players for it.

[prd689]

Re: Running the 4-2-5 Defense

Yes, I have quite a lot of success with it if you're playing a spread option team. It doesn't work so well with traditional power teams like the Big Ten. I mean, you can still do decent, but it always seems like the safeties bite a lot more on play action and the TE will kill you.
So with the 4-2-5 you have 5 playbooks.
• Normal
• Okie Across
• Over
• Under
• Under slide
Basically I never run with Okie Across as the alignments are weird and when the CPU audibles it can caused headaches with the AI alignment on your defense.

The staple of this defense is cover 1 in the Over and Under playbooks. Treat it as though it's the 4-3 under and over and make sure your safety is always playing to the strong side of the field.

Cover 1 will be your base.

I use the normal package in the redzone. Basically anything 20 yards or lower to the endzone and I pull that out and run thet Bullets DBL A all day.

The hardest part of 4-2-5 or any defense this year is that you almost have to manually control your secondary. In the 4-2-5 you'll use the free safety so you can get in on the majority of pass plays.

Your SS's can cover short routes decent and your corners can cover deep but those SS need your help.

When you control your FS, watch for how deep the CPU QB drops back and that will determine how deep you need to cover. 3's run up to support the slant, 5's most likely a deep corner route to the sideline, 7's it's usually a all vertical play so watch your corners.

Strafe is your friend. You wont' be in on a lot of running tackles. But if you wiff on a pass it usually means touchdown.

Use the under slide as your deep cover defense. It adjusts your SS deep and will help you in long yardage downs.

If you feel that a screen pass is coming, Max Zone is a great play to nullify a screen.

Player Types:
DE: Pass rushers
DT: Run Stoppers
OLB: Coverage
MLB: Run or Balanced. You want this guy to help support those DT's because the DE's will rarely help clog the middle of the line.
SS: The bread and butter player in this defense. You need some good hard hitters here. These guys will essentially act as hybrid LB's but with better coverage skills. You want the be able to hit hard.
FS: Coverage all day. This guy is your safety net. You need someone that can move quickly to those 15+ yard passes.

[aspengc8]

Re: Running the 4-2-5 Defense

Someone asked about the 4-2-5 defense and the moderator jammed it into the NCAA 14 Q & A thread. I'm not sure why, so I'll answer the question here since it is generic to all versions of NCAA.

I started running the mostly out of the 4-2-5 last year. The reality is that a lot of passing happens in college football today, and the 4-2-5 is a way to help defend that while still giving you a chance to stop the run. In this year's version especially, I have found difficulty stopping heavy run teams. Generally, if they are running into the middle of the field a blitz can help stop that. Also, I'll sometimes user the DT and try to help him bust through the line, which seems to be a bit more effective this year.

The outside run is problematic to defend since you don't have linebackers on the outside to shut that down. QB contain can work in that instance, but can open you up on the inside against a smart player. Also the base Cover 2 leaves the corners down low where they can bust up sweeps and screen passes.

In general, like most flavors of defense in NCAA, zone defense works better to shut down the run, and man works better to shut down the pass. If I have the talent, you can formation sub in the 4-2-5 to help both scenarios. With five alignments, I'll put better run support safeties in run alignments, and better pass coverage safeties and LBs in one or two of the alignments. Then I can switch between them to get help stop the run or the pass as needed.

Still, I've found the need to put 4-4 and 5-2 alignments into my playbook to slow down those teams that really rely on a power running game. The 3-4 Predator is also a good alignment to have against the run.

Hope this helps.

Well, you don't want to really run 4-2-5 or any nickel based defense vs a run heavy team with multiple tight ends on the field. The 4-2-5 is really just the 4-3, or any even front defense, with an additional strong safety replacing the sam linebacker. This was done in order for the base defense personell to be able to (1) be able to defend the spread offense and (2) be able to stay on the field for hurry up.

It *can* stop the heavy running game however your better off subbing in more meat instead of having your nickel backs bang heads vs tight ends all game.

[heelphreak]

Re: Running the 4-2-5 Defense

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[DataBull]

Re: Running the 4-2-5 Defense

I agree with most of what is in this thread. I do run Okie in prevent defense situations, helps to have every backed up. Of course, you can do the same thing with any of the 4-2-5 alignments and just select cover and have them back off.

I used to have great success stopping pretty much any running game with this alignment. Pinch the line and/or blitz the LBs to stop the inside run. I found in the past that the extra safety actually helped track down RBs going to the outside. In particular the cover formations that bring the corners down low were great for those quick backs trying to skirt outside and for shutting down the screen pass.

This year, however, power RBs seem to cause these alignments a great deal of problems. Even the safeties don't have enough weight to bring down the big RBs. I've gone back more towards 4-3 or even the 5-2 on running downs with a big back. All of this, of course has to do with the quality/skills of your players as well.

[tessl]

Re: Running the 4-2-5 Defense

Well, you don't want to really run 4-2-5 or any nickel based defense vs a run heavy team with multiple tight ends on the field. The 4-2-5 is really just the 4-3, or any even front defense, with an additional strong safety replacing the sam linebacker. This was done in order for the base defense personell to be able to (1) be able to defend the spread offense and (2) be able to stay on the field for hurry up.

It *can* stop the heavy running game however your better off subbing in more meat instead of having your nickel backs bang heads vs tight ends all game.

I like a couple blitz packages in the 4-2-5 and I run it quite a bit. I go to formation subs and put my best hybrid linebacker/strong safety at the fifth defensive back position.

[prd689]

Re: Running the 4-2-5 Defense

One of the biggest problems though with the 4-2-5, or a lot of other nickel style defenses, is the alignment issues. If the CPU comes out in a 3wr 1TE set, sometimes you have to manually drag your safety(s) to actually align with them presnap. This happens more when the CPU motions the TE to the other side of the lineup.

I've noticed this problem a lot and I think it's one of the reasons you ask yourself "HOW WAS HE SO OPEN!?!?" At least it does with me.

Always watch your match ups presnap. 4-5 times a game you'll find your defense will come out and align exactly as the play ART is designed, not how the play is designed. It does no good to have your guys manned up with 4 WR but your corner or safety on the weak side of the field is manned up with the WR on the strong side of the field. It just doesn't make sense.

[prd689]

Re: Running the 4-2-5 Defense

Does hitting base align help against this?

No way. I've actually found that hitting base align is WORSE for your defensive counters than anything else in this game. It's unreal. You hit base align and watch your SS on the right side of the field actually run AWAY from his actual alignment. Last year it worked well. It worked so well last year that it generally fixed any alignment issues you had on defense.

I just don't understand how so much stuff was overlooked on defense this year. What I've noticed is that playing the CPU your game scores will look like you had a decent defensive game, but if you look deeper at the QB stats, RB stats... it tells a completely different story.

[Hiro1]

Re: Running the 4-2-5 Defense

I play with 425 every now and then but I'm still not very comfortable running it. People online were killing me with zone runs. I like the Over 2 blitz it has though. Both DEs drop to flats. I usually audible on of them to rush. It works well unless your opponent has multiple wrs that spread yours safeties out.

[KleShreen]

Re: Running the 4-2-5 Defense

Question for anyone awake right now as I'm in the middle of doing a Teambuilder squad...The team I am editing has switched from the 4-3 to the 4-2-5, and I am too lazy to put the game in and find out while editing...I am assuming in the 4-2-5, the extra DB is just the next CB on the depth chart? Or does it take your #2 FS/SS and put him on the field?

Hopefully that question makes sense. I was going to question the LB situation in it too but I see further down the threads, someone already asked and it is the LOLB who pretty much gets left out to dry.

[thesportsguru11]

Re: Running the 4-2-5 Defense

Question for anyone awake right now as I'm in the middle of doing a Teambuilder squad...The team I am editing has switched from the 4-3 to the 4-2-5, and I am too lazy to put the game in and find out while editing...I am assuming in the 4-2-5, the extra DB is just the next CB on the depth chart? Or does it take your #2 FS/SS and put him on the field?

Hopefully that question makes sense. I was going to question the LB situation in it too but I see further down the threads, someone already asked and it is the LOLB who pretty much gets left out to dry.

The extra DB should always be the 2nd SS.

[KleShreen]

Re: Running the 4-2-5 Defense

The extra DB should always be the 2nd SS.

Thanks sir