I think NG vs CG proves my theory

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  • Madwolf
    MVP
    • Jul 2007
    • 1327

    #1

    I think NG vs CG proves my theory

    Before we start, let me note that I don't care about shiny graphics, I'm an on the field guy, so if you want shiny graphics discussion find another thread because you're going to be bored in this one.

    My theory has always been that the reason CG Madden wasn't running on systems that could handle the calculations needed to make the most of the pieces of the game actually work the way they were supposed to.

    Seriously, if you're playing the NG, start really paying attention to what's going on. We obviously know the game is playing better, but what about it plays better? How is it different from CG?

    I think the simple answer is that, because of the increased calculations and resources usable by the NG systems, we're finally seeing the Madden we were promised on CG.

    Thing about the last time you hit a WR as the ball got there on CG; What was the outcome? I think we all have this pretty good notion of what would happen. It was very limited, even with sliders. With sliders, he may not ever catch the ball instead of dropping it on the hit. Now go pay close attention to the same play on the NG game; Do you notice how much more interaction their is between the defender, the receiver and the ball? Do you see how it is actually being calculated if it should be a completion or not? Don't you love how the ball can get tipped up in the air and picked off!

    Think about your defenders against the TEs and backs now. In the CG game, how limited was the interaction between your LBers and CBs vs those positions? Did it not feel like that those defenders were committed to one decision after the snap of the ball? They would make an initial reaction to the TE/back and then play off that initial reaction the rest of the play would they not? Then the coverage was awful, there was a breakdown constantly on TEs and backs. Why was that? Did it not just feel like the computer couldn't handle dealing with the the multiple parts of the coverage with the defender? Then put in your NG game, and it feels like the defenders make intelligent decisions as individuals! It's awesome!

    Earlier I was playing a game and a OLB was covering the interior of the field, and a WR went across the middle while a TE ran an our route. As the WR got their the OLB picked him up as he came towards the zone, I saw this and passed to the TE as he made his break. Instead of waiting for the pass to complete the OLB dropped off the WR, reacted to the pass and deflected the pass into the air and it was picked off. I was stunned! I threw the ball before it was out of his reach, and he made a play. It was great.

    If this theory is indeed correct every game play guy on the planet should be super stoked for this heading forward. We might be finally seeing the game the way the devs have intended us to see it. It's not perfect by any means, but it just took a big step in the right direction IMO.
  • phIllypride89
    Rookie
    • Nov 2013
    • 23

    #2
    Re: I think NG vs CG proves my theory

    Originally posted by Madwolf
    Before we start, let me note that I don't care about shiny graphics, I'm an on the field guy, so if you want shiny graphics discussion find another thread because you're going to be bored in this one.

    My theory has always been that the reason CG Madden wasn't running on systems that could handle the calculations needed to make the most of the pieces of the game actually work the way they were supposed to.

    Seriously, if you're playing the NG, start really paying attention to what's going on. We obviously know the game is playing better, but what about it plays better? How is it different from CG?

    I think the simple answer is that, because of the increased calculations and resources usable by the NG systems, we're finally seeing the Madden we were promised on CG.

    Thing about the last time you hit a WR as the ball got there on CG; What was the outcome? I think we all have this pretty good notion of what would happen. It was very limited, even with sliders. With sliders, he may not ever catch the ball instead of dropping it on the hit. Now go pay close attention to the same play on the NG game; Do you notice how much more interaction their is between the defender, the receiver and the ball? Do you see how it is actually being calculated if it should be a completion or not? Don't you love how the ball can get tipped up in the air and picked off!

    Think about your defenders against the TEs and backs now. In the CG game, how limited was the interaction between your LBers and CBs vs those positions? Did it not feel like that those defenders were committed to one decision after the snap of the ball? They would make an initial reaction to the TE/back and then play off that initial reaction the rest of the play would they not? Then the coverage was awful, there was a breakdown constantly on TEs and backs. Why was that? Did it not just feel like the computer couldn't handle dealing with the the multiple parts of the coverage with the defender? Then put in your NG game, and it feels like the defenders make intelligent decisions as individuals! It's awesome!

    Earlier I was playing a game and a OLB was covering the interior of the field, and a WR went across the middle while a TE ran an our route. As the WR got their the OLB picked him up as he came towards the zone, I saw this and passed to the TE as he made his break. Instead of waiting for the pass to complete the OLB dropped off the WR, reacted to the pass and deflected the pass into the air and it was picked off. I was stunned! I threw the ball before it was out of his reach, and he made a play. It was great.

    If this theory is indeed correct every game play guy on the planet should be super stoked for this heading forward. We might be finally seeing the game the way the devs have intended us to see it. It's not perfect by any means, but it just took a big step in the right direction IMO.
    Great post Madwolf, NG will truly open up unlimited possibilities and football is a game of so many calculations and reads and what not IRL. Players have to process a lot of things before even the plays starts and then have to react to even more variables once the play starts.

    From what I've been reading, a lot of the changes are subtle but very much needed. I was watching a video and saw the wide receiver as he was falling down strip a receiver that is just an insane play which you would never see in CG Madden. It looked organic and free flowing too. There's of course going to be some issues which crop up with shoddy zone coverage or what not but overall I'm pleased with what I'm hearing and I'll probably pick this up.

    Comment

    • jwagner82
      Rookie
      • Aug 2012
      • 223

      #3
      Re: I think NG vs CG proves my theory

      I definitely agree. So much better than last gen and i'm slowly realizing it more. I was playing last night, 3rd down, rain game and i'm scrambling out of a collapsed pocket as rg3, Pierre garcon slips, falls, gets back up and see's im scrambling, cuts back to the right and i hit him for a first down. Half the time on last gen they just stood there even if the DB was right on them

      Comment

      • C_Bailey24
        Pro
        • Oct 2002
        • 691

        #4
        Re: I think NG vs CG proves my theory

        Yep gotta agree with the OP. Lots of little situations during the game re now free flowing and not "forced" to happen. Asante Samuel picked me off in a game yesterday on one of those deep sideline comeback routes and at first i was like noo how he'd make that play but when i went into replay i realized that like a real QB he "looked" open but Asante barely backpedaled and sat on the route like the real Asante does. No skipped animations and no sliding feet just a good football play.

        Comment

        • cedwebb
          MVP
          • Oct 2005
          • 1160

          #5
          Re: I think NG vs CG proves my theory

          This is a very good topic and the more I play the more I am seeing things that are wowing me. Today I saw Dez Bryant catch a ball, turn up field and was caught behind by Kuechly. The cool part was that Kuechly grabbed on to him from behind and literally tried to punch the football out from behind Bryant. Was awesome!

          I also seen A Dallas receiver catch the ball in the middle of the field and as he is running for the end zone he points at a Db that was covering Dez on the outside calling for a block. Dez sees this and breaks inside to catch his man to make a block to help his teammate get in for a TD. Unbelievable "little things" that are making this game great. I can't be more happy about the decision to hold off on current gen and wait for this game.

          Comment

          • jpdavis82
            All Star
            • Sep 2005
            • 8794

            #6
            Re: I think NG vs CG proves my theory

            I know people thought I was joking, being a fanboy, maybe even crazy, but I was being completely serious, Madden 15 is going to be THE game we've been waiting for. If you think these improvements on M25 ng are impressive, this is just the tip of the iceberg as the OP pointed out.

            Comment

            • aspengc8
              Rookie
              • Jun 2010
              • 171

              #7
              Re: I think NG vs CG proves my theory

              Originally posted by Madwolf
              Before we start, let me note that I don't care about shiny graphics, I'm an on the field guy, so if you want shiny graphics discussion find another thread because you're going to be bored in this one.

              My theory has always been that the reason CG Madden wasn't running on systems that could handle the calculations needed to make the most of the pieces of the game actually work the way they were supposed to.

              Seriously, if you're playing the NG, start really paying attention to what's going on. We obviously know the game is playing better, but what about it plays better? How is it different from CG?

              I think the simple answer is that, because of the increased calculations and resources usable by the NG systems, we're finally seeing the Madden we were promised on CG.

              Thing about the last time you hit a WR as the ball got there on CG; What was the outcome? I think we all have this pretty good notion of what would happen. It was very limited, even with sliders. With sliders, he may not ever catch the ball instead of dropping it on the hit. Now go pay close attention to the same play on the NG game; Do you notice how much more interaction their is between the defender, the receiver and the ball? Do you see how it is actually being calculated if it should be a completion or not? Don't you love how the ball can get tipped up in the air and picked off!

              Think about your defenders against the TEs and backs now. In the CG game, how limited was the interaction between your LBers and CBs vs those positions? Did it not feel like that those defenders were committed to one decision after the snap of the ball? They would make an initial reaction to the TE/back and then play off that initial reaction the rest of the play would they not? Then the coverage was awful, there was a breakdown constantly on TEs and backs. Why was that? Did it not just feel like the computer couldn't handle dealing with the the multiple parts of the coverage with the defender? Then put in your NG game, and it feels like the defenders make intelligent decisions as individuals! It's awesome!

              Earlier I was playing a game and a OLB was covering the interior of the field, and a WR went across the middle while a TE ran an our route. As the WR got their the OLB picked him up as he came towards the zone, I saw this and passed to the TE as he made his break. Instead of waiting for the pass to complete the OLB dropped off the WR, reacted to the pass and deflected the pass into the air and it was picked off. I was stunned! I threw the ball before it was out of his reach, and he made a play. It was great.

              If this theory is indeed correct every game play guy on the planet should be super stoked for this heading forward. We might be finally seeing the game the way the devs have intended us to see it. It's not perfect by any means, but it just took a big step in the right direction IMO.
              The problem is that 2K had no problem doing it 6 years ago. They didn't need 'next gen' hardware...

              Comment

              • roadman
                *ll St*r
                • Aug 2003
                • 26339

                #8
                Re: I think NG vs CG proves my theory

                Originally posted by aspengc8
                The problem is that 2K had no problem doing it 6 years ago. They didn't need 'next gen' hardware...
                What does 2k have to do with this thread? The OP didn't mention anything of that nature.

                Comment

                • CleatsMaster
                  Just started!
                  • Nov 2013
                  • 6

                  #9
                  Re: I think NG vs CG proves my theory

                  Originally posted by aspengc8
                  The problem is that 2K had no problem doing it 6 years ago. They didn't need 'next gen' hardware...
                  Exactly. It's like they constantly have to keep creating "new technologies" to do things that have been done many times before in the past. It's laughably absurd.

                  Comment

                  • icicle22
                    MVP
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 2395

                    #10
                    Re: I think NG vs CG proves my theory

                    Originally posted by roadman
                    What does 2k have to do with this thread? The OP didn't mention anything of that nature.
                    Since you mentioned 2k I feel obligated to say that this version of Madden is the first one where I honestly don't miss 2k5 so much. Other than the presentation aspects of 2K5 (ESPN branding,commentary, certain replays, halftime shows and weekly shows)I am completely satisfied. Now the game needs to make improvements but I am not longer pining for 2k5. Most of the issues are presentation oriented but it is still decent enough that I can live with it until MAdden 15, where hopefully they will address it.

                    This game feels "that" good so far.

                    Comment

                    • slowdifference
                      Pro
                      • May 2012
                      • 518

                      #11
                      Re: I think NG vs CG proves my theory

                      More excuses being made for EA. The PS3 and 360 were more than capable of making a great game. EA made great games on PS2 and og Xbox. Just admit that they've been mailing it in because of no competition.
                      Am I trolling? Am I serious? Did Dennis Green and the Cardinals really "let them off the hook"? What about the children? Find out next week

                      Comment

                      • Ovie832
                        Banned
                        • Nov 2013
                        • 48

                        #12
                        Re: I think NG vs CG proves my theory

                        Originally posted by icicle22
                        Since you mentioned 2k I feel obligated to say that this version of Madden is the first one where I honestly don't miss 2k5 so much. Other than the presentation aspects of 2K5 (ESPN branding,commentary, certain replays, halftime shows and weekly shows)I am completely satisfied. Now the game needs to make improvements but I am not longer pining for 2k5. Most of the issues are presentation oriented but it is still decent enough that I can live with it until MAdden 15, where hopefully they will address it.

                        This game feels "that" good so far.
                        I wouldn't say MOST of the issues are presentation wise (although a good chunk is) I still the gameplay needs to make bigger strides but overall I do agree with you. I wasn't expecting much out of NG madden but it has left me pleasantly surprised. It is still very much an EA game. (imo that means it doesnt feel as deep as something like mlb the show, both gameplay and presentation wise)..but I will say that it is the most realistic feeling madden to date. I truly think EA is making a push across the board to become much more sim. (probably thanks to the success of nba 2k).

                        There are still many legacy issues.. but I'm starting to lose some of the skepticism that I had with the previous gen versions. If they can improve their animation quality and depth.. and shoot for more photo realistic graphics. I really think we could have an amazing game. (COULD.. we aren't there yet) I've hated every madden since m10 but I'm finding myself to be very satisfied with the ps4 version. I play 15 min quarters on very slow and it feels life-like at times to me. (apart from the obvious animation faults)

                        Comment

                        • KANE699
                          EA Sports' Equipment Guru
                          • Jul 2007
                          • 3447

                          #13
                          Re: I think NG vs CG proves my theory

                          Originally posted by roadman
                          What does 2k have to do with this thread? The OP didn't mention anything of that nature.
                          He is trying to say that current gen limitations held back madden from really getting down football, when 2k was able to calculate all these things correctly on current gen years ago.
                          Please take note that most of what I say and post is made in satire.

                          Follow me on twitter @Equipment_Guru

                          Comment

                          • raiders81tim
                            Pro
                            • Jul 2009
                            • 585

                            #14
                            Re: I think NG vs CG proves my theory

                            Originally posted by roadman
                            What does 2k have to do with this thread? The OP didn't mention anything of that nature.
                            I think until Madden stops playing catch up to 2k, and actually starts to make a 9 year old game look 9 years old 2k will always be brought up.

                            Comment

                            • IndyColts2
                              Banned
                              • Mar 2009
                              • 570

                              #15
                              Re: I think NG vs CG proves my theory

                              In all honesty, I don't have Madden 25 on any system. However I played it on Xbox 360 a few times and it felt like it regressed from Madden 13.. And after seeing the "Next-gen" streams and stuff it looks like it's the exact same game. To say that because the little things you saw on next-gen vs. current-gen "proves" your theory is like me saying "I think vanilla ice cream is good but if I added chocolate syrup it would be great." No offense but it is more than obvious that an entire new system would bring a much richer experience to its games. I am by no means an "EA *****" or "2k fanboy" (I bought damn near every FIFA and always alternate NCAA and Madden), however, this game is not getting better.. Literally everything in this game you will see in a Madden on ps2 or xbox. The animations are all the same, the way the players interact are barely improved, and the logic is horrible. We still have Right Guards PULLING to the entire left side of the line of scrimmage because the defense brought a blitz to that side and nobody was there to compensate on a PASS play. The computer simply cannot be duped and it makes sure there are no blown assignments in the game.. If improving the power of the systems should bring better calcs and possibilities... Why haven't we seen a huge jump during these console changes??

                              Lastly, anytime someone comes into the Madden boards with a "2k did this 10 years ago," everyone goes crazy and wants to burn that person. Yes he didn't give any proof to back up his statement but he is right and his comment was relevant to your post.. ESPN NFL 2k5 did things that we still have yet to see properly implemented in our Madden to date. And that game was made on the ORIGINAL Xbox and PS2.. The fact that we are 10 years behind STILL is insane and nobody seems to realize it. We should be praising EA for having pre, half and post-game player/coach interviews and shows. We should NOT be praising EA for having a better merge of animations so that it doesn't look awkward that the player did something no human being would actually do.

                              But like usual I rant, carry on.

                              Comment

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