Looking for defensive advice

**trigger378** · 02-06-2014, 05:37 PM

Re: Looking for defensive advice

Really it depends on what schemes you're running, the defensive playbook you're using (I assume the niners), and also having the right personnel. I looked briefly at your personnel, but it sounds like you're getting burned on receivers getting open and not getting the right pressure and containment. What's worked for me is this, I run an Attacking 3-4 scheme with a custom playbook. On my D-Line I look for physically strong d-tackles with 90+STR, and good block shedding 80+ common, 90+ ideal (Dontari Poe, Gerald McCoy, Geno Atkinds, etc.). My ends are speed rushers, I'm in a fantasy online CCM, but my ends have at least 85 speed (Margus Hunt, Dontay Moch, Dion Jordan, Cameron Wake, Bruce Irvin, Cornelius Washington, etc.) These guys are strong enough and fast enough to collapse the pocket. Line backers I typically go for guys with good speed and physical stats. Stopping the Run and Protecting the middle is vital so having fast LB's is imperative. My middle line back typically needs high awareness and zone coverage. So using a Patrick Willis, Bobby Wagner, or Luke Kuechly sound like ideal Mikes. Outside linebackers at least in a 3-4 scheme need both be able to rush the passer, cover the flat, and stop outside runs. Aldon Smith is a perfect OLB for that purpose. In the game I've had good experiences with guys like Bruce Carter, Zaviar Gooden, Jacquin Williams, KJ Wright. They have all good speed, tackling, and coverage ratings. My secondary is a work in progress but Speed and Awareness are pretty key. Low awareness for your safeties can be detrimental to coverage. Now for my play calling, I tend to keep it somewhat simple. I always start the first play with 2-man under either in Nickel or 3-4. Once I get a feel for how the opposing offense is working, I tailolr my play calling around that. I get geeky about it, but I actually take notes of what plays the offense is making and what formations they're using. If I feel they have more success with passing, I will stick to two-man under or cover 3 in Nickel or Dime sets. I sometimes use Dime more often because I like having more DBs out there to get a corner or safety on the T.E. However, the risk is greater because of less linebackers utilized in stopping the run in Dime. Your corners will get chewed up in the blocking. If the run is getting more success, you will have to really look at what times the run is being utilized. Draws, Screens, and the Option can be frustrating because there isn't a straightforward way to deal with it other than knowing how to adjust for it. 3-4 is a great formation for annihilating the outside run as well as the 4-4. Bear 4-6 Under has it uses if you're getting burned on downhill running. Ideally I have to say this, if you're defense isn't performing well you should take a look at the players that compose the defense see if they have the physical traits you need, then analyze your play calling and start noting what does work in what situations. And also calling blitzes constantly will only wear out your defense, blitzing has its place in 3rd down situations and other aspects of the game. You will figure it out. Hope this helped. Oh and Go Hawks.

**josefrees** · 02-06-2014, 06:00 PM

Re: Looking for defensive advice

Are you playing the games?? Or is this sim?

**Franchise408** · 02-06-2014, 07:44 PM

Re: Looking for defensive advice

Playing.

And to the first response, thanks. I'm gonna take a second look at your post when I get homr and read it more carefully, but yea I am running mostly the 49ers defensive playbook with some custom plays as Well, and yes I'm struggling in pass coverage and pass rush, something I didn't struggle with previously.

**macbranson** · 02-06-2014, 08:15 PM

Re: Looking for defensive advice

Unfortunately, I don't have an answer to your problem. In fact, I have a similar problem and would also like some advice on improving my pass defense. I really think I should have at least a top 10 pass defense with my personnel, by I'm in the bottom third and scrub QBs are putting up close to 300 yards on me. I'll list my defensive players and their ratings so you can have an idea of what I'm working with.

RE Charles Johnson 99
DT Star Lotulelei 95
DT Kawaan Short 88
LE Greg Hardy 99
ROLB Thomas Howard 86
MLB Luke Kuechly 93
LOLB Jon Beason 97
CB Dominique Rodgers Cromartie 89
CB Morris Claiborne 88
FS Chris Sentef 90
SS Charles Godfrey 92

My cornes have man coverage and zone coverage in the high 80s like 88 or 89, so I run a combination of zone or man. Since I got Claiborne at CB, I've been playing more man defense because his man rating is higher than his zone defense. I usually run man with two deep safeties early in the game and try to tailor my game according to what seems more effective. But I can't seem to generate consistent pressure which my team was great at last season and I'm getting beat on deep pass plays at least once a game. Last season, QBs never had the chance to throw deep balls against me and they rarely completed them when they did. This season, I'm getting beaten with short passes, intermediate passes, screens and worst of all, deep passes. So, basically, I'm getting beaten in all aspects of the passing game.

**gkrown** · 02-06-2014, 10:34 PM

Re: Looking for defensive advice

i have found i rarely generate a pass rush with just the front four
normally i send a pass rushing lb (i play 4-3)
or you can go nickle/dime and rush the 3rd cb (whoever is on left of screen works best, blind side hit)
it helps to have a good coverage safety, and just user the other one since you'll have to play deeper and a cf role.

on all pro i was having success rushing von miller and adjusting my line to his side. he'd either be mostly free or he'd occupy a tackle and my end would get the qb. idk if this was good playing or just finding a play that messed with the AI blocking scheme.

without von miller (i've since begun using cvg linebackers) i havent had as much success. but i normally employ dareus and someoene good @ DT. which basically gives me 3/4 DE

**josefrees** · 02-07-2014, 12:10 AM

Re: Looking for defensive advice

To generate a pass rush you pretty much have to control a blitzer and beat your guy with a move and hope the QB still has the ball

**49ers510** · 02-07-2014, 12:21 PM

Re: Looking for defensive advice

maybe its just me, but ive noticed shifting your line to left or right really helps. also throw some zone blitzes as well. dont just play man to man. mix it up. im averaging around 5 sacks a game. sometimes ill move the dt a little left or right as well. im always shifting players around.

**PGaither84** · 02-07-2014, 01:12 PM

Re: Looking for defensive advice

Tell me what you ARE doing defensively. Names don't really bother me one way or the other. Ratings change and if you use "practice" to inflate your players ratings or not matters as well.

Sliders matter a lot too. I am currently messing around with RG3MVP's "50/50" All Madden sliders [which really aren't 50/50, but almost are]. With those settings, I have seen ratings mater for the most part. For example, in play now I have been crushing teams thanks to the default 49ers defense and having Crabtree, Boldin and Davis to throw to.

However, in the CCM I just started, in the pre-season I beat the Broncos 21-7 and then got decimated by the Chiefs 43-14. Once my back ups started coming in [as it was preseason] my defense couldn't shed a block or make a tackle to save their jobs. Colt McCoy was very erratic and so were his targets and the O-line protecting him. I was getign a lot of pressure nad no one open. When they got open, either McCoy would throw a terrible ball or they would drop it [twice there were drops that bounced and turned into interceptions]. There were really only 3 palyers that contributed. MLB #57 [forgot his name right now], DE/DT rookie Tank Carradine and OLB rookie Corey Lemonier.

I do have to ask, what did you do with Corey Lemonier? He has always been a stud for me. In fact, while I am a fan of Aldon Smith in real life, I haven't ever gotten much production out of him in Madden because pass rushing from the left side [defensive right] is a joke. In my current CCM, I actually traded him for Richard Sherman to se for fun if Sherman could help my team at all... and to see what an elite CB can do. I know what Aldon can do for me, and that's almost nothing. A waste of a 99 OVR palyer. Especially when Corey Lemonier can run stuff and cover well enough on his own.

As far as plays go, I do the following:

Against a standard 2WR formation [it tells you what package the offense is coming out in in the play call screen] I tend to call cover 3 plays that have one of the safeties in a blue flats zone. That will stack 8 in the box. I also tend to call a lot of blitzes from Cover 1 and Cover 3. I need to stop the run and try to pressure the QB.

Against 3WR formations, I will either stay in my base defense and call zone, or move to the nickle. the two nickle looks I use with SF are the 2-4 and the Wide 9 with the "LB Pass Rush" formation substitution. The problem is, that the AI, much like real life, tries to play the numbers game. They spread you out with 3 wide and run the ball on you. in the 2-4 you have 6 against 5 linemen and a TE. If every one gets blocked, you don't have anyone to tackle the ball carrier. That's why I tend to stay in the base formation but call things like cover 6, cover 3 buzz, Cloud 3, and cover 2 sink. Those plays keep 7 up front and I trust my LBs to cover in zone well enough. If I do go nickle, i tend to go back to the Cover 3 that has a safety in a blue zone so I can "stack the box" with 7 and keep playing the numbers game.

In the end, for me at least, it still comes down to execution by my AI players. I try to stay simulation style. I tend to user control Justin Smith, Ray Mac, or Tank Carradine. I like to time the snap and flick the right thumb stick down and hold it so they will bull rush. That tends to help by collapsing the pocket as I wait/hope for another defender to get free. Power move defensive linemen are very important to me because of that. I love that animation and the impact it has. The computer controlled pass rush can be very weak without the user helping. They just stand there and play pat-a-cake with each other.

Below are some picture from real life and then screen shots from Madden with his 3 sacks against the Broncos. Against the Chiefs I lined him up at ROLB and he performed no better or worse than Aldon Smith. The LOLB/LE is simply far more effective at pass rushing than the RE/ROLB in Madden. Sad, but the truth.

Spoiler

**Armor and Sword** · 02-07-2014, 02:43 PM

Re: Looking for defensive advice

Playing in an online CFM vs the offline CPU is a different world Franchise....and I have had a huge learning curve as well. I had not played online at all this gen and let me tell you.....despite having a lot of good pieces on defense and sound play calling imo.....the one thing I have learned and am working hard at getting better at is user tackling.

When I am dead convinced on a run up the middle I user my best DT to try and stop it.

When I am thinking run or pass in the flats or in the middle in front of the safeties....I am controlling my MLB and keying on a particualr player.

When I am thinking down field I am now working hard on becoming a strong user SS.

It's not easy.....as I feel player control this gen is not nearly as good as the PS2/XBOX days.

There are games I can really bring it.....then there are games I am not on my game whether that is play calling, injuries, over pursuit, turnovers my offense has that put a ton of pressure on my defense.

Knowing your opponets tendancies is important when trying to win in Madden. Player development in-season as well as the off-season is huge.

I don't know the specific rules of your league but I play in SOS and there is no user catching, and the no switch rule once the ball is in the air. We also have a great league in the fact that the play calling is very sim, varied, rarely do I see players using money plays all the time, calling the same routes, constant blitzing, QB's are only allowed to do the automatic dropbacks.....we don't abuse the read option which we all know is very over powered this year.

But knowing what defenses to call in certain situations, what formations and what play combinations work best against the run is huge with this years game as you can be gashed by the run if your not in position or over commit.

I typically only call 1-2 pre-snap adjustments, I do use a spy a lot to keep a LB at home.....there are many ways to play it.

But the number one thing to me that will be the difference is how well you user defend.

I played a game 2 nights ago vs my division rival (Bills) and that teams owner is a tremendous user defender and probably the best I have faced in this league.. I could not run.....at all. And once that happens your easy to beat. Any team that is one dimensional is easy to beat on Madden. Because like IRL you can pin your ears back and attack the QB and disrupt everything with no threat of a running game.

The good thing is we play again (I have a bye then face him again) and I made a ton of notes about his schemes, playcalling and more improtantly his user defense. I will draw up a gameplan....that hopefully I can execute and give him a far better game the seond time around. I am still licking my wounds from the beat down he gave me LOL.

BTW.....I am pretty convinced that the game sometimes decides certain things in any given game in regards to fumbles and drops. Sometimes I can't hold on to the ball for the life of me.....sometimes I can. QB's scrambles are a huge risk in M25....huge. They seem to let the ball pop out like a watermelon seed most of the time. QB slide is your friend.

You did lose a great pass rusher.....and having that rush is critical IMO to causing chaos in the passing game. And most of the time your depending on your CPU teammates to generate that pass rush. So having 1-2 premier pressure guys is huge. What offsets that is a team that can keep your defense on the field as fatigue is a huge factor in this years Madden and IMO they really have nailed that aspect. Your defense will get worn down in a game where you can't get off the field.

Happened to me in week 2. I was in control the first half but my opponent kept hammering away with the run and it cost me in the end. Went from a 10-0 lead to a 28-10 loss.....and I directly attribute that to my defense not being able to get off the field and my offense having too many 3 and outs.

M25 is IMO the best head to head sports game out there. It's really a different experieince playing a good sim minded human opponent compared with the CPU (which has been a blast this year as well).

**Franchise408** · 02-07-2014, 05:03 PM

Re: Looking for defensive advice

I'm not playing against the CPU. It's a 32 man CFM so I'm always playing a human opponent. Not sure exactly our sliders.

As far as Corey Lemonier goes, I traded him.for a 1st rounder. Didnt anticipate losing Aldon Smith (I thought I was going to have more cap room than I did).

As far as what I do... I can't remember the name of the play but its a 2-4-5 Nickel package. Man coverage. One of the MLB's is spy, SS in man coverage and FS in a cover 1.

In season 2, when I won the Super Bowl, this was my main defense. I'd adjust the spy LB to man cover the RB. This put both MLB's on the running back to defend the run. Bring the CB's in press, because with Charles Tillman, Tarell Brown, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Carlos Rogers, all with 90+ press and man (except DRC who only has 55 press but still high man coverage) receivers weren't getting off the line, and then I'd manually control Eric Reid deep to cover anyone that did break through. My pass rush of Aldon Smith, Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, and Ahmad Brooks would be able to get pressure without a blitz.

Of course I had other plays as well, but this was my base.

I've tried doing that again this season, because although the personnel is different I still have high rated press and man corners, but now they can't hold coverage. And not the pass rush generate zero pressure. So I'm wondering how much is this me not having the same personnel anymore and basically being screwed versus needing to change up my strategy. And if it is the latter, I'd like to find some strategies that best utilize the talent I have on defense which is why I listed them in the first place.

**Armor and Sword** · 02-07-2014, 05:08 PM

Re: Looking for defensive advice

Originally posted by Franchise408

I'm not playing against the CPU. It's a 32 man CFM so I'm always playing a human opponent. Not sure exactly our sliders.

As far as Corey Lemonier goes, I traded him.for a 1st rounder. Didnt anticipate losing Aldon Smith (I thought I was going to have more cap room than I did).

As far as what I do... I can't remember the name of the play but its a 2-4-5 Nickel package. Man coverage. One of the MLB's is spy, SS in man coverage and FS in a cover 1.

In season 2, when I won the Super Bowl, this was my main defense. I'd adjust the spy LB to man cover the RB. This put both MLB's on the running back to defend the run. Bring the CB's in press, because with Charles Tillman, Tarell Brown, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Carlos Rogers, all with 90+ press and man (except DRC who only has 55 press but still high man coverage) receivers weren't getting off the line, and then I'd manually control Eric Reid deep to cover anyone that did break through. My pass rush of Aldon Smith, Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, and Ahmad Brooks would be able to get pressure without a blitz.

Of course I had other plays as well, but this was my base.

I've tried doing that again this season, because although the personnel is different I still have high rated press and man corners, but now they can't hold coverage. And not the pass rush generate zero pressure. So I'm wondering how much is this me not having the same personnel anymore and basically being screwed versus needing to change up my strategy.

Personal is really key in Madden 25. No pass rush = very difficult to play defense.

**Franchise408** · 02-07-2014, 05:25 PM

Re: Looking for defensive advice

Well that leads to my follow up question...

Are there good blitzes I can call to generate that pass rush? Or am I doomed because I lost Aldon?

I ask because I feel like I have no success when I blitz, that it's just an open invitation for the offense to burn me deep.

**PGaither84** · 02-07-2014, 07:12 PM

Re: Looking for defensive advice

To me, blitzes are a waste of time for the most part. the AI knows what blitz is coming and will always block it up with the exception of a few plays. What i mean is that the AI will slide a "back side" guard or tackle over to pick up the overload blitz, which is total crap.

Here are three images where you cna watch Iupati slide to the right to block the free rusher:

This happens all the time, which the exception of a few defensive plays: [Note, I am getting these images from the Facebook Madden 25 application and they come in groups of three. I am not saying all three will work I will highlight which one I ma talking about below]

The Y button FS Zone Blitz from the 3-4 where all of the D-Line pas rush, not to be confused with the one where the LE drops into coverage found here:

In that first image, the FS will shoot free like 90% of he time without any adjustments on your part. The man coverage version doesn't work. They block it up. Remember, this is only a 5 man blitz and if they block with a HB or FB, the back will chip it. I probably recommend controlling the MIKE and covering the middle of the field, or potentially the WILL to protect the sideline throws.

I prefer to use a custom play book where I add in 4-3 plays and 46 Bear Normal plays. From the 4-3, I substitute my defenders into the appropriate positions. You an see that in my thread on that very topic. From the 4-3, The Y button WILL PUNCH 3 SEAM also works:

There are a few more plays, but as I am typing this, I stopped to make some videos of them. I am uploading them to Youtube now. The thing is, if they block with a back, that will nullify the free rusher. Now, I am perfectly fine with that. I just wish ALL of the stock over load blitzes worked that way. You should be forced to block with a back if you want time to go down field. That's why I call these on 3rd and 7+ so that check down routes aren't an option. If they come out in 3 WRs, I will stayin my stock D. If the come out with 4 I will go nickle, and if they come out in 5, I will go 1-4-6 dime.

I will post the Youtube videos once they finish uploading, which will take some time. They might not be done until tomorrow. They aren't that large, but I am transferring them to my lap top first from my digital capture device.

**PGaither84** · 02-08-2014, 12:44 AM

Re: Looking for defensive advice

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