Drafting Frustration

[raiderfan10001]

I can't find if this has been posted and if so I'm sorry and could some one link it to me. I have been scouting and putting legitimate work into my off season program and found some late round picks I wanted. I found a WR with A speed, Catch, Accel, and F in awareness and other skills I can raise. He was projected as a 7th round pick and I figured I would snagged him up in the 5-6th since I invested so much because I wanted to develope him since he was 6'6". Also in the same draft a linebacker suppose to be 6th rounder with stuff that fits my scheme. Well in the second round the damn Ravens took my WR and the bengals took my OLB. All in all the players I targeted heavy in scouting the computer took like 4 rounds before their projections... I restarted draft once just to see and it happened again and neither of those teams needed those guys. I looked them up after and my WR was number 8 on their depth chart at a 56 over all.... Not a second round pick. My linebacker was a 55 and number 4 on the Bengals. Is any one else having issues with the computer grabbing the players you're scouting heavily?

[JaymeeAwesome]

Re: Drafting Frustration

I can't find if this has been posted and if so I'm sorry and could some one link it to me. I have been scouting and putting legitimate work into my off season program and found some late round picks I wanted. I found a WR with A speed, Catch, Accel, and F in awareness and other skills I can raise. He was projected as a 7th round pick and I figured I would snagged him up in the 5-6th since I invested so much because I wanted to develope him since he was 6'6". Also in the same draft a linebacker suppose to be 6th rounder with stuff that fits my scheme. Well in the second round the damn Ravens took my WR and the bengals took my OLB. All in all the players I targeted heavy in scouting the computer took like 4 rounds before their projections... I restarted draft once just to see and it happened again and neither of those teams needed those guys. I looked them up after and my WR was number 8 on their depth chart at a 56 over all.... Not a second round pick. My linebacker was a 55 and number 4 on the Bengals. Is any one else having issues with the computer grabbing the players you're scouting heavily?

I don't see that as an issue. I see that as being awesome. It means that the CPU scouts attributes and not projected round. They saw the same talents you did. This madden game is headed in the right direction.

[Robrain]

Re: Drafting Frustration

This does happen which is one reason lotusfather's draft guide can be useful.

I tend to use Lotusfather's draft guide kind of the same way your average person can already know combine results for every player.

In real life, you already know every player's 40-yard dash time, as well as how many times they can bench press. Also that one with the cones.

So to me, that gives you a general idea about their speed, acceleration, and strength. SPD and STR seem to be the main stats that Lotusfather's draft guide helps provide, so personally, I just consider his draft guide to be basic scouting data from the combine.

While Lotusfather's draft guide is useful as a guideline, it's by no means entirely comprehensive. There are other players that can be useful that aren't listed in his guide, depending on what you're looking for in your football players.

The only other thing it gives away is a lot of the STAR and Quick development players. I don't care too much about that though, to be honest. If a player has average development but their skillset and stats fit the criteria for my team, I'm still going to draft them.

So taking that into consideration, if I'm interested in a player listed in Lotusfather's draft guide, here's what I do to avoid the CPU screwing me hard just because it knows I scouted that player:

If it's a WR, RB, or QB, and he's listed in lotusfather's draft guide, we already know his SPD. Don't scout that stat again. Scout his ACC, and then for example, if you're scouting RBs and looking for a power back, scout his STR and TRK. Now, let's say you like what you see. Maybe you also scout a couple other cheap stats like High Motor, Fights For Yards, and STA.

Now, jump back out to the rest of the RBs. Find some other guys that look like they might be power backs, scout the same or a few more stats for some of them. If there are some storyline players at that position, try scouting some stats for those guys too even if you're not interested in drafting them.

I have a feeling that if you only scout specific players, the CPU draft AI tends to strategize around those specific players. If you scout a TON of different players, it helps mask which ones you really want.

Also if you see some players in lotusfather's draft guide that you know 100% you definitely want and are going to draft simply don't bother scouting them at all. Heavily scout a bunch of different players that you don't want.

Kind of like in the real NFL right now, where teams with the top draft picks don't want to tip their hand, so they work out and show up to the Pro Days of pretty much all the top prospects. The teams with the first few picks are talking up QBs, DEs, LTs, etc. They don't want other teams to know which players they're interested in, so they scout everyone.

Final tip, if a player has STAR Dev, the CPU teams usually knows this and they tend to always go multiple rounds higher than their listed draft position. This tends to be especially true of storyline players. Also, the WR you mentioned sounds a little too good to be true. A 6'6" WR with A SPD, ACC, and CTH is a first round talent on physical characteristics alone. 2nd round at worst.

Are you sure it didn't say Round 2 and you just thought it said Round 7? Those numbers do resemble each other.

Also, if you could help the rest of your fellow Madden buddies on this board out by telling us the name of this 6'6" WR, and which storyline draft class he was in, that would be super helpful. I have a certain CFM where I'm assembling an entire WR corps from 6'6" players, and I usually have to convert fast 6'6" TEs to WR because there simply aren't enough fast 6'6" WRs in the draft classes.

Hope that helps some. Best bet, if you really want to guarantee that you land a projected late-round gem, take them by the middle of the 2nd round, or by the middle of the 3rd. I usually trade away most of my 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks.

[Robrain]

Re: Drafting Frustration

Also, small other note, I once read someone post on here that when they scouted one of the storyline players during the season, one of those fake in-game tweets or news headlines said something like "Team X appears to be showing heavy interest in X player." I think he was in an online CFM, so he was pretty pissed because then all of his friends in that league knew he wanted to draft that player.

I do all of my scouting at the end of the season right before the draft, so I can't verify this. But it would be confirmation that the game is definitely programmed to take advantage of the specific players that you actually scout, making my above suggested scouting strategies a viable counter to that.

[roll2tide]

Re: Drafting Frustration

This just tells me that the CPU (and EA, by default) knows what we all know. Skills for rookies are useless and have absolutely zero true worth. Draft based on SPD, ACC, AGI, and STR. Everything else is cheaply upgraded in no time.

Excellent skills + mediocre physical traits=good player. Excellent skills + good physicals=beast.

[SamIam13]

Re: Drafting Frustration

This does happen which is one reason lotusfather's draft guide can be useful.

I tend to use Lotusfather's draft guide kind of the same way your average person can already know combine results for every player.

In real life, you already know every player's 40-yard dash time, as well as how many times they can bench press. Also that one with the cones.

So to me, that gives you a general idea about their speed, acceleration, and strength. SPD and STR seem to be the main stats that Lotusfather's draft guide helps provide, so personally, I just consider his draft guide to be basic scouting data from the combine.

While Lotusfather's draft guide is useful as a guideline, it's by no means entirely comprehensive. There are other players that can be useful that aren't listed in his guide, depending on what you're looking for in your football players.

The only other thing it gives away is a lot of the STAR and Quick development players. I don't care too much about that though, to be honest. If a player has average development but their skillset and stats fit the criteria for my team, I'm still going to draft them.

So taking that into consideration, if I'm interested in a player listed in Lotusfather's draft guide, here's what I do to avoid the CPU screwing me hard just because it knows I scouted that player:

If it's a WR, RB, or QB, and he's listed in lotusfather's draft guide, we already know his SPD. Don't scout that stat again. Scout his ACC, and then for example, if you're scouting RBs and looking for a power back, scout his STR and TRK. Now, let's say you like what you see. Maybe you also scout a couple other cheap stats like High Motor, Fights For Yards, and STA.

Now, jump back out to the rest of the RBs. Find some other guys that look like they might be power backs, scout the same or a few more stats for some of them. If there are some storyline players at that position, try scouting some stats for those guys too even if you're not interested in drafting them.

I have a feeling that if you only scout specific players, the CPU draft AI tends to strategize around those specific players. If you scout a TON of different players, it helps mask which ones you really want.

Also if you see some players in lotusfather's draft guide that you know 100% you definitely want and are going to draft simply don't bother scouting them at all. Heavily scout a bunch of different players that you don't want.

Kind of like in the real NFL right now, where teams with the top draft picks don't want to tip their hand, so they work out and show up to the Pro Days of pretty much all the top prospects. The teams with the first few picks are talking up QBs, DEs, LTs, etc. They don't want other teams to know which players they're interested in, so they scout everyone.

Final tip, if a player has STAR Dev, the CPU teams usually knows this and they tend to always go multiple rounds higher than their listed draft position. This tends to be especially true of storyline players. Also, the WR you mentioned sounds a little too good to be true. A 6'6" WR with A SPD, ACC, and CTH is a first round talent on physical characteristics alone. 2nd round at worst.

Are you sure it didn't say Round 2 and you just thought it said Round 7? Those numbers do resemble each other.

Also, if you could help the rest of your fellow Madden buddies on this board out by telling us the name of this 6'6" WR, and which storyline draft class he was in, that would be super helpful. I have a certain CFM where I'm assembling an entire WR corps from 6'6" players, and I usually have to convert fast 6'6" TEs to WR because there simply aren't enough fast 6'6" WRs in the draft classes.

Hope that helps some. Best bet, if you really want to guarantee that you land a projected late-round gem, take them by the middle of the 2nd round, or by the middle of the 3rd. I usually trade away most of my 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks.

Do people really think this is a thing? I just went through a draft class on Tues and was SOOO psyched about a center that was a 4th round talent and he ended up going early in the second.

Have people tested this out?

[Robrain]

Re: Drafting Frustration

Do people really think this is a thing? I just went through a draft class on Tues and was SOOO psyched about a center that was a 4th round talent and he ended up going early in the second.

Have people tested this out?

I've done numerous drafts now (probably dozens), and I almost never get my players poached by the CPU anymore by using that strategy.

There's a different potential problem which could be causing this frustration though: across the board, the CPU may simply overvalue certain stats or attributes (STAR DEV, for example). So while the draft class may have been DESIGNED to have those players get selected as hidden gems in the 4th, 5th, and 6th, faulty AI programming for the CPU teams during the draft means that the computer won't let them escape the 2nd round simply because they have a certain stat that the CPU locks onto and decides that makes that player a 2nd round talent AT WORST.

But anyway, most of the players that I'm interested in tend to go in the 1st and 2nd rounds anyway. And I'd rather take a player in the late 1st / early 2nd (for example, that unique 7'4" TE in the Don Merrigan draft class) than risk missing out on them.

CPU AI is either overly aggressive when drafting sleepers, or the AI is designed to target the players you've scouted. Since many programmers do program AI to "cheat", I wouldn't bet against that possibility.

[josefrees]

Re: Drafting Frustration

The computer knows which players are trash. Which is why taking a guy who has fallen in the draft is pretty much wasting your pick. I have never had the computer reach more than a round and a half for a guy though, which is where i try to grab a guy.

[Robrain]

Re: Drafting Frustration

The computer knows which players are trash. Which is why taking a guy who has fallen in the draft is pretty much wasting your pick. I have never had the computer reach more than a round and a half for a guy though, which is where i try to grab a guy.

A round and a half is kind of huge though. It turns a mid-4th rounder into a technical 2nd rounder.

More importantly though, I have seen projected 5th and 6th rounders getting taken in the 2nd and 3rd if I've scouted them.

[SamIam13]

Re: Drafting Frustration

Wow. I NEED to try this tonight or tomorrow. It makes sense why the computer reaches 2+ rounds on me a bunch. I guess I'll start using Lotus' draft guide for some speed numbers and just burn the points on other categories.

[Trick13]

Re: Drafting Frustration

I don't see that as an issue. I see that as being awesome. It means that the CPU scouts attributes and not projected round. They saw the same talents you did. This madden game is headed in the right direction.

It is only awesome if the CPU develops those players (which it can't do because they get no practice XP) or starts them or at least finds a "role" for them on the field which we all know they don't do.


I get what you are saying, but EA screwed this whole thing up - the offseason isn't fun anymore - it is a dang chore. And even with high levels of time/effort/scouting points you still get whacky crap going on.


If they were going to have players taken way above (or below) their "projection" then they should have made the projections "dynamic" - meaning they should change as Users and the CPU "scout".


Which once again brings me to "my draft board" where I can rank players according to where I think they have value (potentially influencing their projections) and where I can remove/blacklist a player - whether he just stinks or doesn't fit my scheme or I don't like his stupid fictitious name. Think of NCAA's "recruiting board" with some tweaks.


Although, none of any of that matters if we don't get some custom "created or edited" classes because I am not buying another Madden where my only option for draft classes has 80+ speed DTs, 7'4" anythings, 6'7" players with 97 speed - I mean child please...What is this? Blitz? EA letting their 11 year old kids create draft classes?

[PaulChildres]

Re: Drafting Frustration

That also makes sense when you think about it.... since the CPU won't upgrade their players correctly, they want guys with decent enough skillset in those key areas (speed, catch ect)

You got to admit this is BETTER then if they just let you draft whoever you wanted whenever you wanted. In fact I would be pissed if I were you if the CPU let you wait until the projected round and let you have that "late round stud" in his respective projected round. Wouldn't that make it too easy for you?

Swallow your pride. If you really want these "jewels" then draft them in the first/second rounds. The way I do it is trade my first round pick to the worst team the previous season. Try to help out the weakest team to make things a tad more competitive.

[DSThom]

Re: Drafting Frustration

Swallow your pride.

Don't think he can. It's his hobby horse, you see, and if he gets off it he'd be utterly lost for something to say.

[Robrain]

Re: Drafting Frustration

That also makes sense when you think about it.... since the CPU won't upgrade their players correctly, they want guys with decent enough skillset in those key areas (speed, catch ect)

You got to admit this is BETTER then if they just let you draft whoever you wanted whenever you wanted. In fact I would be pissed if I were you if the CPU let you wait until the projected round and let you have that "late round stud" in his respective projected round. Wouldn't that make it too easy for you?

I would imagine that a mix of the two would be the ideal. You could wait, and see if they fell, but taking the risk that they might be gone before your pick. Or you could trade up or take them with one of your earlier draft picks.

It should ideally be risk vs. reward. Right now it's not even risk, more like a guarantee that they will not be there.

My biggest wish is that picks outside the 1st and 2nd rounds actually mattered. Otherwise there's no reason to keep your 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th round draft picks. Just package them together and trade them away for an extra 1st and 2nd (which is stupid and cheesy). Making the majority of draft picks useless dulls the NFL Draft experience drastically. I don't want a dull game.

[moylan1234]

Re: Drafting Frustration

I feel your pain OP I've had similar things happen, but agree with others it actually makes the the draft feel more alive and fresh to me.

My approach to counter it is to basically ignore the projected rounds for anything below a 3rd rounder or even a 2nd if it's a low pick. I base my picks solely on the attributes I've scouted and my team needs. Of course every now and then you'll end up with a misfire, but again that just makes it more real to me and as we know with this game you can basically build anyone up so the draft and draft position are almost irrelevant.