AI/CPU Tactics Thread

[AdamJones113]

Hey guys, looking for this thread to be a solid, video-based analysis of AI and CPU tactics. Even better if you could provide counterbalancing real-life footage, but if you can't find it, no worries. Here's the first example.



Here's a highlight from one of my recent games against the Lightning (seems like I'm always playing 'em) that demonstrates the stagnant breakout AI that actionhank and I are always rattling on about. The Lightning are on the power play, and JVR dumps the puck behind their net and goes in with a minimal forecheck.

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The Lightning fall back into the defensive zone and take control behind the net. Their uncovered skaters—4 of them, 3 bunched together, but that's not relevant—stand motionless in anticipation of the breakout pass. What they should be doing—what NHL teams do in this situation—is cycling around, trying to get a head of steam before receiving the puck and heading up-ice.

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(Not the exact scenario, but best clip I could find, sorry.)

[mikeyflex]

Re: AI/CPU Tactics Thread

I have tons of videos illustrating the dumb AI's in this game. Flat out, embarrassing. I totally agree, this is why the Power Plays are almost not existent in this game. Gamers who know how to exploit the passive AI garbage prosper in this game. Some of the more glaring issues with AI's that I noticed:
1) When defending player gains control of the puck (deep in their zone, below the goal line). Their forwards are leaving the zone looking for the breakout pass, my D-men too are leaving the zone. This happens with my 3 forwards deep in the zone near the puck carrier. I have a video of a game where my opponent's defensemen gained control of the puck in their zone around the faceoff dot, facing towards his own net and skating towards his goalie. While skating deeper in his own zone, one forward was rushing up the ice near the center line when the homerun pass came out of no where, surely he scored on a breakaway. This never happens in real hockey. You wonder why people say there is ice tilt in this game?

2) Random line changes happen and I didn't call for a line change. I'm working down low trying to generate a scoring chance, look around, I'm missing 2 of my players. Realized they left the ice to change up, but I never activated the change myself. Totally negates the pressure I'm applying. So frustrating.

[jack72]

Re: AI/CPU Tactics Thread

Other things I noticed.
1) When you attack if you are carrying the puck over the opponents blue line, the wingman will peel off back to the bench or hold at the blue line forcing you to go in alone 9 out of 10 times. Rarely will you have a team mate going in with you to set up passing chance on goal.


This is particularly annoying when you have a 2 on 1 and the winger will disengage leaving you with a 1 on 1.


2) When the other team wins a faceoff in our zone, at least one defenseman (usually the one closest to the boards) turns into a statue and stays put until after there is a chance on goal or a shot on goal.


With the latest tuner, does your stats on win/loss/tie (home, away, last 10 game) record in the stats page, are they truncated?


I have also noticed that with the win/lose displaying just before the game starts is truncated as well.

[mikeyflex]

Re: AI/CPU Tactics Thread

That would be the faceoff glitch. When you tie the faceoff player and win the battle, their d-men a frozen, giving you enough time for separation and the no-skill top shelf goal. Play aggressive faceoff, although this will not 100% work its better then normal or defense.

[AdamJones113]

Re: AI/CPU Tactics Thread

I have tons of videos illustrating the dumb AI's in this game. Flat out, embarrassing. I totally agree, this is why the Power Plays are almost not existent in this game. Gamers who know how to exploit the passive AI garbage prosper in this game. Some of the more glaring issues with AI's that I noticed:
1) When defending player gains control of the puck (deep in their zone, below the goal line). Their forwards are leaving the zone looking for the breakout pass, my D-men too are leaving the zone. This happens with my 3 forwards deep in the zone near the puck carrier. I have a video of a game where my opponent's defensemen gained control of the puck in their zone around the faceoff dot, facing towards his own net and skating towards his goalie. While skating deeper in his own zone, one forward was rushing up the ice near the center line when the homerun pass came out of no where, surely he scored on a breakaway. This never happens in real hockey. You wonder why people say there is ice tilt in this game?

2) Random line changes happen and I didn't call for a line change. I'm working down low trying to generate a scoring chance, look around, I'm missing 2 of my players. Realized they left the ice to change up, but I never activated the change myself. Totally negates the pressure I'm applying. So frustrating.

To the last part: try setting "Line Change" to Manual in the pre-game settings and see how that works (I play on Auto but make most changes myself anyways).

Would love to see a video of that first thing you talk about. That play sounds like a real pain.

[mikeyflex]

Re: AI/CPU Tactics Thread

To the last part: try setting "Line Change" to Manual in the pre-game settings and see how that works (I play on Auto but make most changes myself anyways).

Would love to see a video of that first thing you talk about. That play sounds like a real pain.

My settings are always manual for line changes. I suspect the game sends off players to the bench when they become fatigued. It's not a complete line change, sometimes its one player, two, but I'm not calling for it. I'll get the video for you, I was planning on a montage of dumb AI plays for youtube.

[mikeyflex]

Re: AI/CPU Tactics Thread

People laugh at me when I say that this game has fixed predetermined plays. This is surely one of them. There is no reason in the world why a forward should be rushing up the ice near the center line when the puck and the player controlling the puck (teammate) is retreating in their own zone with their back to the player.

[AdamJones113]

Re: AI/CPU Tactics Thread

My settings are always manual for line changes. I suspect the game sends off players to the bench when they become fatigued. It's not a complete line change, sometimes its one player, two, but I'm not calling for it. I'll get the video for you, I was planning on a montage of dumb AI plays for youtube.

Huh. Weird. Guess that makes sense. Looking forward to the vid.

People laugh at me when I say that this game has fixed predetermined plays. This is surely one of them. There is no reason in the world why a forward should be rushing up the ice near the center line when the puck and the player controlling the puck (teammate) is retreating in their own zone with their back to the player.

I don't think it's a "predetermined play", more so a system like this:

The CPU has certain tendencies which are programmed into the game: that's the AI. That AI does the job the brain does, in a limited fashion in some ways (adapting and being creative on the rush, say), but programmed heartily enough to get the game playing as does. Now, of course, the AI has to read everything and make the CPU react to those things. My theory is that the AI reads the play as a collective mass as opposed to different players reading and seeing different things. This makes sense, because CPU players can pass to players whose location they shouldn't know—we've all seen that, it's part of the game. So, the collective mass in your case sense the breakout, and while one player skates backwards, the mass AI knows where/how to pass to the breaking forward.

I've generalized here, but that's my theory. Obviously individual CPU players have their own AI, but I think part of the AI is the collective mass.

[mikeyflex]

Re: AI/CPU Tactics Thread

Huh. Weird. Guess that makes sense. Looking forward to the vid.



I don't think it's a "predetermined play", more so a system like this:

The CPU has certain tendencies which are programmed into the game: that's the AI. That AI does the job the brain does, in a limited fashion in some ways (adapting and being creative on the rush, say), but programmed heartily enough to get the game playing as does. Now, of course, the AI has to read everything and make the CPU react to those things. My theory is that the AI reads the play as a collective mass as opposed to different players reading and seeing different things. This makes sense, because CPU players can pass to players whose location they shouldn't know—we've all seen that, it's part of the game. So, the collective mass in your case sense the breakout, and while one player skates backwards, the mass AI knows where/how to pass to the breaking forward.

I've generalized here, but that's my theory. Obviously individual CPU players have their own AI, but I think part of the AI is the collective mass.

Ok, I'm talking about Power Plays here: Watch next time what happens when you're on the Power Play, when the puck is down low- below the goal line and the minute the penalty killers gain control, watch how your AI Defensemen react, they retreat. Penalty killer forwards start rushing up the ice. As a result your opponent who has the puck gets to figure skate and take their sweet time doing their best impression of Elsa and Disney on Ice up and out of the zone with no pressure.

This is why people complain about the BS Power Plays where the short handed team scores more so than they should.

The AI's should never leave the zone unless the forwards are getting set to rush up the ice. Oh wait, this happens all the time in this game. But why? It happens because EA never properly instituted a REAL fatigued engine into the game.

Case in point, I was playing a game where my team was pressuring the offensive zone for a good 5 minutes (5 on 5 HUT) I know the clock is prorated, so in real time simulation what is that 3 minutes or so? What hockey player stays on the ice for 3 minutes without having heavy legs and out of energy? So my opponent finally gains control of the puck, skates up the ice and goes on the offense! Gets a shot off, no goal, but still, skate up the ice annnnnnd get a shot off? Come on, total BS crap.

This is why I say the clowns in Vancouver are not hockey people. Plain and simple. Watch real hockey and see what happens to defenders who get caught for long periods of time in their end of the ice. They slow down, they stop moving their skates, they stop moving period, why? Because they're tired!!! This is no where to be found in NHL 16. No real fatigue system. This is why power plays are a joke. If they had a real fatigue engine, players would not be inclined to stay on the ice for a long period of time because they need a line change for fresh legs.

The so-called best players at this game (I call them exploiters) know how to work the broken engine to their advantage. Thats what makes them "good".

[ThatAvsGamer]

Re: AI/CPU Tactics Thread

This game does have fix determined plays... It's called your strategies. If you change your strategies your AI will change it's style of play.

I don't know how people can say the AI is garbage in this game. Pretty much every game I play is my opponent sitting in their own zone (with a forward) sending their AI to fish the puck out for them.

[AdamJones113]

Re: AI/CPU Tactics Thread

This game does have fix determined plays... It's called your strategies. If you change your strategies your AI will change it's style of play.

I don't know how people can say the AI is garbage in this game. Pretty much every game I play is my opponent sitting in their own zone (with a forward) sending their AI to fish the puck out for them.

Agreed. When I said that there are no predetermined plays, I meant it as that the AI has no rut it falls into and resorts to. Strategies do work, and, while they are not individual plays (looking forward to the eventual return of Create A Play), they do affect your CPU teammates' mindset and positioning.

[Ktulu]

Re: AI/CPU Tactics Thread

One of the fundamental flaws in the gameplay is the way line changes occur. The flow and pace of the game is dictated by the necessity of changing lines, but EA doesn't come close to replicating how line changes work in real life.

[jack72]

Re: AI/CPU Tactics Thread

One other issue that is giving the AI an offensive advantage is....

In previous games if you tap the right trigger once, you will control the player closest to the puck. If you tap the right trigger twice quickly, you control the man furthest back or closest to your own net.

This year, if you tap the trigger once or twice quickly, you don't get the man closest to the net. This is why the AI in your zone has a free man at the net. You can never control a defenseman in front of your net unless you skate to the opponent (leaving the shooter uncontested).

Basically you have to wait till the shot is taken and hope to control the rebound or if the shot is missed you are first on the puck.....


Also another change I noticed, in the opposition net, when there is a rebound it is very unlikely you will tap in a rebound. Most times your player will miss the puck even if you are controlling him. (regardless of the Puck Control setting.

[AdamJones113]

Re: AI/CPU Tactics Thread

Let's take a look at CPU power play strategies, using the Washington Capitals.

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[AdamJones113]

Re: AI/CPU Tactics Thread

My apologies to those that were hoping to see powerplays, because, despite setting the CPU Penalties slider to maximum and the Human Penalties slider to minimum, the CPU (Vancouver) had 3 powerplays to my (Washington) 1.

Very, very disappointed with the game of hockey I just played. Making a post in the Let's Test thread now.