Neglected Special Teams

[crenk]

With special teams being such a part of football I believe EA needs to overhaul this aspect of their game. I mean They really treat it like it is some minor part of football.....I find myself simming punts/kickoffs and even FG's because they are either so stale and irrelevant or I want to get more lifelike results than I will by kicking field goals myself, and to me that means it is broken....

Field goals need to be more difficult as well as extra points. With the line moved back it is now more frequent to see a miss. This needs to be reflected in game. Need to feel the pressure on big kicks more as well(incorporate the controller more rumbles heartbeats etc)

Need to be able to block the occasional punt/FG without it being a glitch

Muffed snaps on punts and FGs. It is random but so are penalties, they are part of the game. It will make the long snapper position relevant. If muffed the holder/punter can try to run but will obviously be swamped, try to throw, but with almost no time/from a terrible position in terms of balance and theirfore horrible accuracy or in the case of muffed punt an attempt to still get the kick off.

More onside options, surprise onside, kicking to different part of the field, kicker recoveries, maybe the dropkick we saw the patriots try this year is too much but we need more options.

Obviously the ability to run back a kick/punt is huge. Ive never done it. I will bet some have but I would guess it was a result of spins/jukes ie not realistic. Kick return team needs to set up lanes and effectively block.

other ideas that I am missing?

[scoobyskyline3]

Re: Neglected Special Teams

Haha, in my league we have some opponents playing over wifi and their glitchy internet is enough to effect special teams, kick meter freezing up and causing horror.

Without 4th down rules this probably would just raise the probability for everyone to go for it on 4th down.

I am in favor of squib kicks, pooch kicks and surprise onside kicks to be added but i am leery of adding things that cannot be prevented by a user, like bad snaps and such.

It kind of sucks to be holding a controller and all you can do is watch yourself get screwed, however if there was some sort of mechanism or button sequence that has to be initiated for things to go smooth im all for it.

[UFCMPunk]

Re: Neglected Special Teams

With special teams being such a part of football I believe EA needs to overhaul this aspect of their game. I mean They really treat it like it is some minor part of football

Field goals need to be more difficult as well as extra points. With the line moved back it is now more frequent to see a miss. This needs to be reflected in game. Need to feel the pressure on big kicks more as well(incorporate the controller more rumbles heartbeats etc)

Need to be able to block the occasional punt/FG without it being a glitch

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head with your post. What's amazing about these two things you said is how easily EA Sports is influenced by what happens on Sundays and how quickly they get in the game. Take OBJ and the overuse of the one handed catch within the game one year later.

You had two specific plays this year where EA Sports if they were serious about fixing special teams could use as why they wanted us to have those same experiences.

Example 1: AFC Championship Game. Gostkowski misses an extra point forcing the Patriots to go for 2 to tie the game, thus losing. In Madden we can never replicate that.

Example 2: Ravens @ Browns on MNF. Tied at 27, Browns going for the game winning Field Goal. The Ravens blocked it, Will Hill returned it for a Touchdown giving the Ravens the win 33-27. In Madden, most likely it would have been automatic FG and Browns win 30-27.

Those two games gave EA the blue print of ok it's time to fix special teams and make those results happen in the game. Will it happen? Sadly probably not.

[crenk]

Re: Neglected Special Teams

Haha, in my league we have some opponents playing over wifi and their glitchy internet is enough to effect special teams, kick meter freezing up and causing horror.

Without 4th down rules this probably would just raise the probability for everyone to go for it on 4th down.

I am in favor of squib kicks, pooch kicks and surprise onside kicks to be added but i am leery of adding things that cannot be prevented by a user, like bad snaps and such.

It kind of sucks to be holding a controller and all you can do is watch yourself get screwed, however if there was some sort of mechanism or button sequence that has to be initiated for things to go smooth im all for it.

I think it would be pretty easy to turn these on/off as options but in my opinion its no different then having players with low penalty ratings costing you 10 yards for holding.
A button sequence is interesting(the worse the snapper rating the harder the sequence) not sure though....

[Essex Blue]

Re: Neglected Special Teams

I definitely agree on being able to block field goals, and PATs being way too easy. I think they have it right with kick off and punt returns though. Most get back to around the 20, which is fair enough. Probably one or two a season I can return for TDs. I don't think it should be more frequent than that and it always feels like an achievement when you manage it.

[Ueauvan]

Re: Neglected Special Teams

as an aside iirc didnt Hill step out of bounds but they never reviewed even though a scoring play?

[prhiam]

Re: Neglected Special Teams

I don't think it should be "easier" to return kicks per say. Much like anything else in Madden, I'm not looking for the pass game to be easier when I say why does every pass have to be directly at the intended receiver and either caught, caught and dropped, dropped, or intercepted, with the occasional "inaccurate pass". There should just be more passes defensed and leading too far, more variables that can be decided by ratings.

For kick returns the idea is that you need to use return middle, right and left yield zero blocking. There is no dynamic setup for the runner and there are never any "lanes" you have to weave uncontrollably to create a lane. I've returned probably about 4 kicks and one punt for touchdowns. But most were by luck, and I've had a few where I was run down by a slower defender. That is another topic for another time, I mean they have ratings for speed, why do they continually not know how to use them in the game??? But I digress, the point is the act of blocking for kick and punt returns needs to be MUCH improved.

All of this being said, I really think it comes down to the player movement model being pretty horrendous. With all of the new changes in game play, the "ignite" engine or whatever they call it is looking more and more aged. The players have no weight, there is no physics to the running motions and the plays feel dead at times. They could improve the game greatly by
slowing the players down" or rather have them move more like real people rather than robotic animated players that have no context. Make this change and then work in the blocking changes. I bet the game would feel much more dynamic.

I would think all of that would change the way that Madden plays. It would feel like every game is different and every situation is different. Again, I'm not looking for easier, I'm looking for more realism in the game.

[MountaineersSon]

Re: Neglected Special Teams

The only thing neglected is this thread lol.

Special teams needs an overhaul in the worst way.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Neglected Special Teams

Quoting my post from the wishlist thread over here since it's regarding special teams:

I definitely think special teams is long overdue for a new system. Field goals are just way too easy for both human and AI; there simply must be a better way to do it that can add even a slight amount of difficulty to the game. Beyond that, blocking a field goal is basically impossible.

AI punters still often shank their punts when punting around midfield. The vast majority of AI punts travel about 15 yards before going out of bounds unless they simply kick it out the back of the endzone.

It used to be that punt returners would have almost no room to return punts but now it's horrible in the other direction; it's almost impossible to get your punt coverage down the field without allowing 15+ yard returns every time.

And lastly, the ball physics on punts and onsides still need to be worked on. Onsides are terribly unrealistic and while you can occasionally get a punt to bounce out of bounds or bounce backwards, it seems that almost all of them still just bounce down the field, making it very difficult to pin someone inside their own 10 yard line without just kicking the ball out of bounds.

The special teams has driven me nuts for a long time now.

[scoobyskyline3]

Re: Neglected Special Teams

I think it would be pretty easy to turn these on/off as options but in my opinion its no different then having players with low penalty ratings costing you 10 yards for holding.
A button sequence is interesting(the worse the snapper rating the harder the sequence) not sure though....

I mean, just making you initiate a the snap with x and having to flick the analog stick down and up will cause the kick to be tougher and quickness and effectiveness of the snap/hold being secured can be based on the rate of your hand gestures

[snellman]

Re: Neglected Special Teams

Has anyone else noticed that at the beginning of each game when they show the kicker stats at kickoff that every kicker's avg starting position is the 22.3 yd line? Very minor detail, but yet very annoying.

[JayD]

Re: Neglected Special Teams

It has already been stated that EA will be looking into special teams and improving them for Madden 17.

[Godgers12]

Re: Neglected Special Teams

I've been outspoken on this issue in the past and have a few ideas that can spice up ST.


Special Teams Aces - Yes they do exist, their should be a trait in the game that enables certain players to become animals on special teams.


Special Teams Playbooks - We have had the same basic ST plays in the game for like 20 years. It's time Madden added team specific ST playbooks within the game, complete with trick plays.


New Lateral System - I would like the Music City Miracle (sorry Bills fans) to be possible in Madden. My proposal would be to hold the lateral button which would bring up icons of players who are behind you, even those on the other side of the field, push the corresponding icon to throw it to that player.


Blocks are a Thing - Blocks need to happen on occasion without having to cheat the AI to do it or even have to manually control a player. Certain players should have the ability to come flying over top of the line, of get penetration up the middle, and some times low kicks get blocked by taller players on the line.


Long Snappers are a Thing too - Add the long snapper position to the game for the love of all that is holly, and require each team to have one on their roster. If a team has anyone other than their long snapper snap, then the snaps should be wild and inaccurate. Snappers should have their own ratings such as power and accuracy, as well as traits that govern how often their snaps are off target. To put bad snaps in the hands of the user so they don't seem totally random, Madden could add a snap meter that is separate from the kicking meter.


Special teams Depth Charts -I guess you could add this in with formation subs, but a ST depth chart is a must. I like having full control over who I put out there on the field, without having to manipulate my depth chat to do it.


Kick Trajectories -NCAA had this feature at one time. For kickers that have low accuracy their kicks should not be on a straight line all the time. Even without wind kicks should sometimes slice and curve, the lower the accuracy the more likely and pronounced that would be. It would finally make kick accuracy mean something.

[Toupal]

Re: Neglected Special Teams

With special teams being such a part of football I believe EA needs to overhaul this aspect of their game. I mean They really treat it like it is some minor part of football.....I find myself simming punts/kickoffs and even FG's because they are either so stale and irrelevant or I want to get more lifelike results than I will by kicking field goals myself, and to me that means it is broken....

Field goals need to be more difficult as well as extra points. With the line moved back it is now more frequent to see a miss. This needs to be reflected in game. Need to feel the pressure on big kicks more as well(incorporate the controller more rumbles heartbeats etc)

Need to be able to block the occasional punt/FG without it being a glitch

Muffed snaps on punts and FGs. It is random but so are penalties, they are part of the game. It will make the long snapper position relevant. If muffed the holder/punter can try to run but will obviously be swamped, try to throw, but with almost no time/from a terrible position in terms of balance and theirfore horrible accuracy or in the case of muffed punt an attempt to still get the kick off.

More onside options, surprise onside, kicking to different part of the field, kicker recoveries, maybe the dropkick we saw the patriots try this year is too much but we need more options.

Obviously the ability to run back a kick/punt is huge. Ive never done it. I will bet some have but I would guess it was a result of spins/jukes ie not realistic. Kick return team needs to set up lanes and effectively block.

other ideas that I am missing?

I have never, ever blocked a kick in madden, and I've been playing since madden 64.

Additionally, it's been about since madden 12 since I've returned a kick return for a touchdown. I took a punt return back once, but that was because I was knocked out of a gang tackle that almost all 11 defenders were a part of.

I remember when Dante Hall and Devin Hester were people that could change a game and real life, and in madden because of their quickness and ability to find a hole in the return coverage. Kickers would have to quick away from them, in real life, just like in madden. But now, it doesn't matter who is back there returning kicks.

Also, I'm sure this feature might make a few people I easy, but it bothers me how long snappers and holders are ALWAYS perfect. I wish the game had a way to control the snap, the hold, and the kick just like in real life. It adds a whole new element and pressure to the kicking game. Don't think this is important? Ask Michigans punter, The Broncos center from the Seahawks Super Bowl, or even Blair Walsh's holder (laces out).

We also need some new and up to date fake kicks. If my opponent is sending the house to block a punt, and I see that no one is covering my gunner (the guys on the outside of the punt team), I should be allowed to call a fake punt, hot route, and have my punter throw him an EASY completion.

It bothers me more than it should, but the way the punt team lines up, usually indicates how the defense will lineup. Not the other way around. When I call punt block, the punting team shouldn't be audibling to bring the gunners in for punt protection.

Also, where are the different punt formations?! Traditional punting teams will look the way madden has it, but now we see teams drop three personal protectors 6-7 yards behind the line. We also see teams that have players spread out all the way across the field, leaving gaps in their line.

I'm in 100% agreement, madden needs to step up their special teams game. It lost the Vikings and Patriots a chance at furthering their season this year.

[ChicagoChris]

Re: Neglected Special Teams

It has already been stated that EA will be looking into special teams and improving them for Madden 17.

Where is that? I'd love to see that