Ratings Tests for Sliders

**charter04** · 03-11-2016, 09:38 PM

Ratings Tests for Sliders

I'm going to use this for a FBG slider set. I think I've got some good adjustments to get the most out of them. I'll post soon.

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**JoshC1977** · 03-12-2016, 09:33 AM

Re: Ratings Tests for Sliders

Charter....when running these tests, what autosub/fatigue settings were you using within CFM? As autosubs directly impact how players play and fatigue affects things as well, those are two critical parameters that have to be controlled before coming to any conclusions about how much to adjust the slider settings.

**charter04** · 03-12-2016, 10:39 AM

Re: Ratings Tests for Sliders

Originally posted by JoshC1977

Charter....when running these tests, what autosub/fatigue settings were you using within CFM? As autosubs directly impact how players play and fatigue affects things as well, those are two critical parameters that have to be controlled before coming to any conclusions about how much to adjust the slider settings.

this wasn't in CFM. I can't play against the same team in CFM. I only adjusted the ratings for the Cowboys and played against itself. As I put on the top of my post this was default All Pro everything. The only things I changed was the actual player ratings.

**charter04** · 03-12-2016, 01:09 PM

Re: Ratings Tests for Sliders

I'm streaming some FBG rosters gameplay testing sliders www.twitch.tv/charter04

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**charter04** · 03-12-2016, 02:47 PM

Re: Ratings Tests for Sliders

I felt really good about that game. The Stars really shined. Sherman was lock down. Russell Wilson played great. Lynch was beast modding me. Watt and Wilfork played well. Hopkins played great. Jimmy Graham had a nice catch. Seattle was hard to move the ball on. I lost 23-20. I'll be posting these sliders soon

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**charter04** · 03-15-2016, 11:14 PM

Re: Ratings Tests for Sliders

What I am testing now is how much of a ratings gap does it take to actually make a difference and give an advantage? Using default All Pro

I'm starting with OL v DL

I changed all 5 OL to 50 in all ratings then changed the DL to all 50.

I also changed traits to all no for high motor and normal for penalty just to make it even

I have went up to 60 on pass rush ratings and block shed and no advantage. Both user and CPU OL had the advantage.

So far it takes more than a 10 point ratings advantage to make a difference.

I'm moving up to 65 and 70 next

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**charter04** · 03-16-2016, 12:56 AM

Re: Ratings Tests for Sliders

I finally saw a difference with a 25 point advantage.

Not huge but, the DL started winning more.

The question I have is how big of a gap should there be before a guy should be beating his man the majority of the time.

If the number is 10 for instance all you would need to do is lower the blocking slider until 10 got the proper results

That would be like a 95 block shed v a 85 run block.

Right now with default All Pro you won't get much difference in those two guys

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**tyler28** · 03-16-2016, 07:23 AM

Re: Ratings Tests for Sliders

Great study on this stuff. It just proves madden needs to revamp their ratings system. Sometimes i tell a difference in playing w your set on the other thread but that took a lot of tweaking. Out of the box the ratings arent really a factor on one on one match ups. Ive noticed it doesn't really matter who is in the game u will basically see the same results.

But great work man really intreaging. Hope ea reads this thread. It should take that m7ch of a slider adjustment to get reaults from a 85 to 95 block sheadding dl. That factor should already be built in

**charter04** · 03-16-2016, 01:34 PM

Re: Ratings Tests for Sliders

Originally posted by tyler28

Great study on this stuff. It just proves madden needs to revamp their ratings system. Sometimes i tell a difference in playing w your set on the other thread but that took a lot of tweaking. Out of the box the ratings arent really a factor on one on one match ups. Ive noticed it doesn't really matter who is in the game u will basically see the same results.

But great work man really intreaging. Hope ea reads this thread. It should take that m7ch of a slider adjustment to get reaults from a 85 to 95 block sheadding dl. That factor should already be built in

I wonder how small a gap there should be for it to give an advantage. It would be easy to test the slider and lower it until even a 5 point game would matter some

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**Allball76** · 03-16-2016, 02:25 PM

Re: Ratings Tests for Sliders

Great work , and yes they need to revamp everything in ratings . in my league we lowered the pass accuracy down to 6 user / 6 cpu . Just to see a difference in a Tom Brady vs Geno Smith . But its still hard to see a difference in OL and DL . JJ Watt don't feel dominating . There really isnt that much wrong with gameplay (minor things) .It just comes down too the ratings are too close . Your right on if the avg off linemen run block was 60 and the avg def linemen block shed was 60 then someone like jj watt & Von Miller was 90 block shed . You would see the game play great.Then same opposite if that avg def linemen with 60 block shed went against Joe Thomas that was 90 pass block he would dominate and not give sacks up!We need this So then you would game plan for dominate players right now you don't have too how you should!

Originally posted by charter04

I wonder how small a gap there should be for it to give an advantage. It would be easy to test the slider and lower it until even a 5 point game would matter some

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**charter04** · 03-17-2016, 09:07 PM

Re: Ratings Tests for Sliders

alright here is what I think about how these sliders work in relation to the ratings.

This is just my opinion based on testing but, it makes since to me and maybe this is why it seems they don't always work as good as they should.

I see them working kind of like the speed threshold slider.

At 50 it is basically EA's slider that they have tuned. In their opinion they think that a player needs to have a 15 or more advantage to really win consistently in the dice roll. Even 20 to 25 in some cases. This is on All Pro.

Basically it's like a player with 96 speed running about the same as one with 91 speed. The threshold slider as it's lowered makes that speed gap larger.

same with sliders.

Take the pass and run block slider. Those directly affect the pass blocking versus pass rush ratings and the run blocking and block shed ratings. Things like strength and other ratings can act as modifiers but, the former are more important.

So if you have a player with 95 finesse move go against a pass blocker with 90 pass block you wont notice much difference out of the box.

I think this is because EA chose to make pass blocking hold up longer in a user v user game than in real life. They thought the user would get frustrated if they only had 2.5 seconds to pass. 3 or 4 seconds might not seem like it's that much more but, it's the difference in throwing for 80% easy versus 50 or 60%.

It also causes elite pass rushers to be less affective and less valuable.

So the slider works to close the gap. Lowering the pass block slider makes the defender win more the closer you get to 0.

The trick is to lower it realistically and not give the defense too much advantage. That would cause a great pass blocker to be less affective.

You also can't lower it too low or the cpu gets sacked too much in play action.

For some weird reason the pass blocking sucks on play action for tackles compared to regular pass plays.

All the same info works the same for run blocking.

The hard part about the run blocking is that the cpu RB's do a much worse job of finding the holes in AP than in AM.

With pass coverage to close the game the slider has to be raised.

Pass coverage does affect Zone and man. I'm 100% sure. When I got it up to 100 man coverage and zone was better no doubt about it. The safeties in cover two played so good on deep passes I had to turn down int's because they were in position to have a int much more.

Even at 100 if the WR has a RTE versus coverage advantage they still win more times than not.

With pass accuracy and other ratings it's more tricky because they aren't really adjusting anything versus the defensive match up.

With QB accuracy it just makes the players accuracy ratings need a smaller gap to see a difference.

With it at 50 it's hard to tell much difference in a QB with 99 accuracy or one with 80 to me.

Anyway. most of this is just me getting board and testing stuff.

Again I'm not claiming everything is 100% accurate but, most of it I'm pretty sure.

Hopefully some of this can help. I'm sure it's to long of a post. lol

**Hewi7993** · 03-17-2016, 10:01 PM

Re: Ratings Tests for Sliders

First of all, please forgive me if this is the wrong place to post this question. For some odd reason, Op. Sports won't allow me to post a new thread at this point, but this thread is relevant to my question.

So there are TONS and tons of posts regarding how to make (Madden '16) gameplay more realistic and difficult, but I cannot find anything about how to make it EASIER. Yes, easier. I spend hundreds of hours playing CFM (all-pro), and sometimes, I enjoy starting a realistic franchise with salary cap/realistic stats, etc. But, I also enjoy creating franchises with no salary cap to draft and develop players and break all of the NFL career, single season, and single game stats records. That's where I'm at now.

Anyway, the only records that I can never come close to breaking are the interception records. On all pro, the CPU/AI had a well known tendency to take loads of sacks (which is fun and all), and dump off short passes. But, the computer does not fumble, and having messed with a handful of slider variations/tweaks, I cannot get the CPU AI to throw more INTs.

My defense is almost 99 ovr everything - I run an attacking 4-3 and have two 99 ovr speed rusher DEs, a 99 ovr nose tackle type 4-3 DT, and a 99 ovr pass rushing type 4-3 DT. Have great linebackers (some just retired so my upcoming stars are in the low 90s ovr right now). Have 99ovr safetys. One of them was an early first round CB that I drafted and converted to SS, so he has extraordinarily high coverage attributes for a safety. And have almost all 99s at CB. (I should note that for the purpose of this franchise, I maxed out all of the XP sliders to progress players faster). I have no trouble getting sacks, but I cannot for the life of me get the CPU AI to throw more INTs to my cornerbacks, or to fumble more often.

Before talking about sliders, I should note that I have noticed a definitive difference in the way players play, in-game, based on the player type you choose for any given position in coach styles/coach schemes. Also, there seems to be a relationship between the different schemes that you have for each position as well, in terms of of how in-game play manifests. For example, if you set your MLB as cover 2 style, he will play differently in-game than if you set that too, say, prototype. Also, the play of your defense as a whole seems to react to changing these schemes - when I have my MLB at Cover 2 as opposed to, say, 3-4 tackler, my entire defense fern ally stops the pass better, and the run worse.

That is a whole other Pandora's box of stuff that I don't want to discuss right now. But, regarding sliders, I'm trying to, as I said, force more turnovers on defense. I have read lot's about the mysterious, but seemingly true, notion that one slider setting interplays with and affects how all of the other sliders work. So essentially, I want to know if there is a good combination of sliders to use, to increase my turnovers.

I currently have the USER INT slider at 92, user pass def. reaction time at 92 as well, and pass coverage at 22 (this is because someone on another forum wrote that the pass coverage slider might be backwards - so the LOWER the CPU pass coverage, the better your pass coverage is). User tackling at 80, fumbling at 78. CPU QB accuracy at 10, pass block ranging from 40-50 (still trying to find a sweet spot, because at pass block 40, AI takes WAY too many sacks or just dumps the ball off). CPU run block at 46-47, CPU wr watching at 41.

This combination yielded GREAT results, in terms of INTs, not fumbles, for a few seasons. My prized CB got 8-9 INTS per year during a four year span. Suddenly, this season though, with nothing else changed in regards to sliders (I always change my player position types in coach schemes accordingly, and I just changed auto subs before this season), my CBs are getting NO interceptions. At week 11, my prized #1 CB has one INT, and my #2 has 3 (again this makes me wonder about the relationship between player styles in coach schemes, and sliders). Additionally, I have never been able to force more fumbles with the sliders. I have tried various combos of USER/CPU fumble sliders, and the results are totally random. One season my team will recover 3 fumbles, the next 10, the next 2.

So, I'd love any recommendations for how I can force more turnovers with the sliders. I think I might tool with raising CPU QB acc and pass blocking closer to, or slightly above 50%. If the AI, QB has more time to throw (better blocking), he might launch the ball down the field more toward my perfect coverage, throwing more INTs. Regarding the CPU acc, for one, with what I currently have it set to (based on what many people on forums say it should be set to to achieve more realism from the AI QB), many QBs miss a ridiculous amount of throws, which might cut down on my INTs. But I've also read that the CPU QB acc influences the AI decision making, too. Supposedly, QB won't launch the ball down the field if he knows he can't get it there accurately (I have not tested this, and have read both that this notion is false, and that the people who say that this notion is false are wrong). So, I don't know what to believe.

Also, I read that USER WR catching affects how your own team's defense, when it's controlled by the AI, which is virtually always because you can only user one player at a time, defends the pass. I've also read some funky stuff about how USER/CPU tackle slider ratings mess with fumbles, and how the penalty sliders affect everything else too (like, intentional grounding at 0 will make CPU QB dump off short passes more often). I don't know if any of this is true - but the whole slider system seems so arbitrary and un-understandable.

Basically, again, I would love for any input on this and advice regarding sliders that would force more CPU turnovers.

**Hewi7993** · 03-17-2016, 10:15 PM

Re: Ratings Tests for Sliders

Clarification: meant to say that I read that the lower that *USER* pass coverage slider is, the better user pass coverage actually is (before commenting please read my previous post)

**charter04** · 03-17-2016, 10:24 PM

Re: Ratings Tests for Sliders

Originally posted by Hewi7993

First of all, please forgive me if this is the wrong place to post this question. For some odd reason, Op. Sports won't allow me to post a new thread at this point, but this thread is relevant to my question.

So there are TONS and tons of posts regarding how to make (Madden '16) gameplay more realistic and difficult, but I cannot find anything about how to make it EASIER. Yes, easier. I spend hundreds of hours playing CFM (all-pro), and sometimes, I enjoy starting a realistic franchise with salary cap/realistic stats, etc. But, I also enjoy creating franchises with no salary cap to draft and develop players and break all of the NFL career, single season, and single game stats records. That's where I'm at now.

Anyway, the only records that I can never come close to breaking are the interception records. On all pro, the CPU/AI had a well known tendency to take loads of sacks (which is fun and all), and dump off short passes. But, the computer does not fumble, and having messed with a handful of slider variations/tweaks, I cannot get the CPU AI to throw more INTs.

My defense is almost 99 ovr everything - I run an attacking 4-3 and have two 99 ovr speed rusher DEs, a 99 ovr nose tackle type 4-3 DT, and a 99 ovr pass rushing type 4-3 DT. Have great linebackers (some just retired so my upcoming stars are in the low 90s ovr right now). Have 99ovr safetys. One of them was an early first round CB that I drafted and converted to SS, so he has extraordinarily high coverage attributes for a safety. And have almost all 99s at CB. (I should note that for the purpose of this franchise, I maxed out all of the XP sliders to progress players faster). I have no trouble getting sacks, but I cannot for the life of me get the CPU AI to throw more INTs to my cornerbacks, or to fumble more often.

Before talking about sliders, I should note that I have noticed a definitive difference in the way players play, in-game, based on the player type you choose for any given position in coach styles/coach schemes. Also, there seems to be a relationship between the different schemes that you have for each position as well, in terms of of how in-game play manifests. For example, if you set your MLB as cover 2 style, he will play differently in-game than if you set that too, say, prototype. Also, the play of your defense as a whole seems to react to changing these schemes - when I have my MLB at Cover 2 as opposed to, say, 3-4 tackler, my entire defense fern ally stops the pass better, and the run worse.

That is a whole other Pandora's box of stuff that I don't want to discuss right now. But, regarding sliders, I'm trying to, as I said, force more turnovers on defense. I have read lot's about the mysterious, but seemingly true, notion that one slider setting interplays with and affects how all of the other sliders work. So essentially, I want to know if there is a good combination of sliders to use, to increase my turnovers.

I currently have the USER INT slider at 92, user pass def. reaction time at 92 as well, and pass coverage at 22 (this is because someone on another forum wrote that the pass coverage slider might be backwards - so the LOWER the CPU pass coverage, the better your pass coverage is). User tackling at 80, fumbling at 78. CPU QB accuracy at 10, pass block ranging from 40-50 (still trying to find a sweet spot, because at pass block 40, AI takes WAY too many sacks or just dumps the ball off). CPU run block at 46-47, CPU wr watching at 41.

This combination yielded GREAT results, in terms of INTs, not fumbles, for a few seasons. My prized CB got 8-9 INTS per year during a four year span. Suddenly, this season though, with nothing else changed in regards to sliders (I always change my player position types in coach schemes accordingly, and I just changed auto subs before this season), my CBs are getting NO interceptions. At week 11, my prized #1 CB has one INT, and my #2 has 3 (again this makes me wonder about the relationship between player styles in coach schemes, and sliders). Additionally, I have never been able to force more fumbles with the sliders. I have tried various combos of USER/CPU fumble sliders, and the results are totally random. One season my team will recover 3 fumbles, the next 10, the next 2.

So, I'd love any recommendations for how I can force more turnovers with the sliders. I think I might tool with raising CPU QB acc and pass blocking closer to, or slightly above 50%. If the AI, QB has more time to throw (better blocking), he might launch the ball down the field more toward my perfect coverage, throwing more INTs. Regarding the CPU acc, for one, with what I currently have it set to (based on what many people on forums say it should be set to to achieve more realism from the AI QB), many QBs miss a ridiculous amount of throws, which might cut down on my INTs. But I've also read that the CPU QB acc influences the AI decision making, too. Supposedly, QB won't launch the ball down the field if he knows he can't get it there accurately (I have not tested this, and have read both that this notion is false, and that the people who say that this notion is false are wrong). So, I don't know what to believe.

Also, I read that USER WR catching affects how your own team's defense, when it's controlled by the AI, which is virtually always because you can only user one player at a time, defends the pass. I've also read some funky stuff about how USER/CPU tackle slider ratings mess with fumbles, and how the penalty sliders affect everything else too (like, intentional grounding at 0 will make CPU QB dump off short passes more often). I don't know if any of this is true - but the whole slider system seems so arbitrary and un-understandable.

Basically, again, I would love for any input on this and advice regarding sliders that would force more CPU turnovers.

I can tell you that it's not that complicated.

The reason it gets complicated is because of how some test. I can tell you how to test so you isolate the main ratings the slider affect and you can clearly see what the sliders are doing.

No offense to anyone but, some of the wild theories just aren't really proven.

Coverage slider works as it should.

100 makes coverage better.

If you put, pass coverage at 100 and ints at 100 you will see more ints.

If you raise tackle to 100 and lower fumble to 0 you will get more fumbles.

Also make sure your defenders have the strip ball trait.

Don't get pulled into the slider hell. Lol. I honestly don't think it's as complicated as we make it sometimes

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