can we get rid of "waiting for deny" ? (ground game)

[oshighwayman]

guy takes me down...
something unexpected happened...
after 30sec nothing changed, two fighters with full stamina, no transition, no movement, nothing
guy was probably waiting for deny and it surprised him I didn't try to transition
then he started usual routine with trying to force me to transition

bam,bam , deny
ground game endgame? or holding in SC deny then mount

watching higlights from Faber Cruz, I realise how slow our ground game is

it looks good on paper, but reality is turn based passive aggressive system.
it should be faster and it shouldn't be waiting, relaxing , taking deep breaths or else

I would say as was already done in some positions, make SUB fighter gain GA over time, but also balance sub denials and sub ground defense, there s no sense if DOM fighter got full stamina, SUB 0 stamina and 1 arm trap will deplete DOm stamina to 0 in 0,5 sec

I am just really tired of turn based and static things in this game, I might not be expert , but this is how it looks and feels to me

[fitch is my homeboy]

Re: can we get rid of "waiting for deny" ? (ground game)

That's when you start striking to build the advantage so they can't deny your attempt.

Unless your fighting the computer, who's denial ability isn't tied to stamina at all.

[Boiler569]

Re: can we get rid of "waiting for deny" ? (ground game)

'baby strikes' and fakes are your friend

However, I do agree with you that the ground game, while about 5000000x better than UFC 1, still can be a bit too rock/paper/scissors, or 'wait for meter to fill up' turn based, etc.

Trust me I still like the ground game a lot, and even after more than 1.5K fights I'm still trying to perfect various positions and fakes; it's deep; but it also has a lot of potential for growth I think

[Fearhead24]

Re: can we get rid of "waiting for deny" ? (ground game)

Unfortunately fakes can be a whore sometimes. You try to do a fake, youre flicking the stick less than a second, you already released it and you get reversaled though. It only works in some positions, in other ones the animation is just too long to not deny it.

[zzzeric]

Re: can we get rid of "waiting for deny" ? (ground game)

Unfortunately fakes can be a whore sometimes. You try to do a fake, youre flicking the stick less than a second, you already released it and you get reversaled though. It only works in some positions, in other ones the animation is just too long to not deny it.

Yeah this is annoying. Ive been reversed when the bar was literally so tiny that it was insane.

[Boiler569]

Re: can we get rid of "waiting for deny" ? (ground game)

Unfortunately fakes can be a whore sometimes. You try to do a fake, youre flicking the stick less than a second, you already released it and you get reversaled though. It only works in some positions, in other ones the animation is just too long to not deny it.

definitely agree w/ that

lag also screws up fakes pretty badly lol

[Lung444]

Re: can we get rid of "waiting for deny" ? (ground game)

Ohh it drives me nuts when I get denied and sometimes reversed on a fake. How can I get denied on a transition I haven't committed to? Is that more from lag? And if I'm getting denied on a fake doesn't that mean that the defender is preloading the denial which shouldn't be possible? Can anybody confirm the L1/LB mechanic where you hold that button move diagonally and swoop. I saw a video of that on YouTube, hasn't worked for me at all, but I've seen dudes in full guard to go one way then "roll" to the other side for transition. I've asked the community about it, fishing time said he never heard of it. No one else responded.
Here's video link https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci8GlAShw8Q

[hurleybird10]

Re: can we get rid of "waiting for deny" ? (ground game)

Ohh it drives me nuts when I get denied and sometimes reversed on a fake. How can I get denied on a transition I haven't committed to? Is that more from lag? And if I'm getting denied on a fake doesn't that mean that the defender is preloading the denial which shouldn't be possible? Can anybody confirm the L1/LB mechanic where you hold that button move diagonally and swoop. I saw a video of that on YouTube, hasn't worked for me at all, but I've seen dudes in full guard to go one way then "roll" to the other side for transition. I've asked the community about it, fishing time said he never heard of it. No one else responded.
Here's video link

you do realise that video is for UFC 1 not 2

[RuggedRuffRaw]

Re: can we get rid of "waiting for deny" ? (ground game)

I was asking a lot of times if someone has seen the "GPD Tutorial of Ground Game" and can provide a link...
I could swear I remember something from changing a reversal to a denial by doing a 90 degree sweep on the right stick at the right time.

[Lung444]

Re: can we get rid of "waiting for deny" ? (ground game)

you do realise that video is for UFC 1 not 2

No I didn't actually, I found googling ufc2 transition fakes. Thank you for pointing that out.

[fishingtime]

Re: can we get rid of "waiting for deny" ? (ground game)

Ohh it drives me nuts when I get denied and sometimes reversed on a fake. How can I get denied on a transition I haven't committed to? Is that more from lag? And if I'm getting denied on a fake doesn't that mean that the defender is preloading the denial which shouldn't be possible? Can anybody confirm the L1/LB mechanic where you hold that button move diagonally and swoop. I saw a video of that on YouTube, hasn't worked for me at all, but I've seen dudes in full guard to go one way then "roll" to the other side for transition. I've asked the community about it, fishing time said he never heard of it. No one else responded.
Here's video link https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci8GlAShw8Q

There is no L1/LB technique that I know of other than sweeps and subs. The swoop is rotating your right stick along the wall of the transition you are trying to do to end up in like the 12 o'clock position at the perfect time to keep from being reversed. (Still have to go to the 3 or 9 o'clock position before moving the right stick along the wall.)

The guys in full guard going one direction to the other to stand up is a mechanic they put in to help getting up from here. It gives you momentum. GPD actually mentioned this. You have to get the transitions for it to work though. This is why there is a full guard to full guard transition. Go to full guard (from full guard position), then immediately go to the other side to stand up. You will see full guard pop up first.

[fishingtime]

Re: can we get rid of "waiting for deny" ? (ground game)

This is the get up I am talking about that GPD told us about. You can even see the prompt early. I'm assuming you can start the transition there. Didn't really test that. Need to, because that would basically be undeniable.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FogvQIuSfM0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

[SMOKEZERO]

Re: can we get rid of &quot;waiting for deny&quot; ? (ground game)

If they put an emphasis and included a visual indicator for "perfect swoop" in the grappling hud, we could circumvent this issue. "Perfect swoop" is supposed to cost less stamina for transitions and be un-reversible when denied early. Getting denied with perfect swoop technique should also cost less stamina. The problem now is there no visual feed back and timing is inconsistent with different transitions and your current GA or lack of. It's also only beneficial to attempt swoop technique in the top positions, as you can't get reversed transitioning on the bottom. Also, a failed perfect swoop actually costs more stamina than a standard transition. The ground meta has devolved into deny first, gain stamina advantage, advance your attack. Adding a perfect swoop indicator, and making the stamina cost for perfect swoop transition denials being minimal, would add a another level to the ground game and fix some of these play style complaints. The fact that probably 95% or more of the player base doesn't even know about perfect swoop is a bummer.

[fishingtime]

Re: can we get rid of &quot;waiting for deny&quot; ? (ground game)

If they put an emphasis and included a visual indicator for "perfect swoop" in the grappling hud, we could circumvent this issue. "Perfect swoop" is supposed to cost less stamina for transitions and be un-reversible when denied early. Getting denied with perfect swoop technique should also cost less stamina. The problem now is there no visual feed back and timing is inconsistent with different transitions and your current GA or lack of. It's also only beneficial to attempt swoop technique in the top positions, as you can't get reversed transitioning on the bottom. Also, a failed perfect swoop actually costs more stamina than a standard transition. The ground meta has devolved into deny first, gain stamina advantage, advance your attack. Adding a perfect swoop indicator, and making the stamina cost for perfect swoop transition denials being minimal, would add a another level to the ground game and fix some of these play style complaints. The fact that probably 95% or more of the player base doesn't even know about perfect swoop is a bummer.

The controller vibrates, and you can use the GAH (Grapple Assist HUD) for visual timing. The reversal might start, but if you time the swoop right it becomes just a denial.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: can we get rid of &quot;waiting for deny&quot; ? (ground game)

I was asking a lot of times if someone has seen the "GPD Tutorial of Ground Game" and can provide a link...
I could swear I remember something from changing a reversal to a denial by doing a 90 degree sweep on the right stick at the right time.

http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/10394042.page