Submission gates going back inwards?

**mccclan** · 06-13-2016, 11:09 PM

Re: Submission gates going back inwards?

Here's the link to the video. Wasn't sure how to embed from iPhone. Someone please explain

**manliest_Man** · 06-13-2016, 11:19 PM

Re: Submission gates going back inwards?

It's the new patch.

Some submissions have this green pop-in that changes the submission from a rear naked choke to an armbar for example,then there is 1 or 2 more gates for the submission initiator to finish the submission right then and there.

That green pop-in can be clicked both by the defender and the attacker.If the defender clicks it,it cancels the attackers ability to advance his submission to a different submission type.

Before the patch,there was a glitch,where the defender could roll his left stick in a 360 movement and spam it,making it impossible for the aggressor to press the green pop-in once it showed.So with the new patch,if a defender spams that left stick,his submission gates reset.

**mccclan** · 06-13-2016, 11:21 PM

Re: Submission gates going back inwards?

I was aware of the switchin logic (I have a love hate relationship with it sadly) but I was unaware the opponent could stop you.. No I guess they get penalized too. Thanks for the help

**SUGATA** · 06-14-2016, 02:40 AM

Re: Submission gates going back inwards?

Every time when you press LS in wrong direction or in wrong time (when no advancement gate displayed on the screen) escape gates are moving fwd in all sides by 1/5
If sub fighter click LS in wrong direction or wrong timing when no green gate displayed on the screen his escape gates are moving inward by 1/5

**SUGATA** · 06-14-2016, 03:24 PM

Re: Submission gates going back inwards?

My copy-past from my journal, may be helpful:

 SUBMISSION INITIATION:
Stamina cost: drain Stamina by filling Transition meter (holding RS). Possible to initiate even on 0% Stamina.
Depends on (faster TM): the same as Grappling.
(holding)L2 (to see if Submissions are available from my current position) (L2+L1 for Clinch Flying submission) + (holding)RS in appropriate (indicated) direction – initiate Submission attempt by filling TM.

SUBMISSION DEFENSE (I am the Defender):
Stamina cost: no
Depends on (Escape gate speed):
- SA: Defenseman has more Stamina than Attacker
- Fighters stats & abilities.
RS – (NA)(holding) in any direction - pushing out Escape gates; BETTER holding direction by RS BEFORE opponent’s actions; BETTER slide RS along the hole’s edge – especially between adjacent sectors. (become solid Attacker’s color light “R”).
- slow RS (circling along the hole’s edge) – counting, may using for quickly changing directions to escape.
Defender: never use LS, except ONLY when Green prompt is on the screen (to deny Attacker’s ability to Submission chain!
- IF Escape gate advancement is blocked by Attacker – Escape gate advancement stops and start blinking “R”.
- IF Attacker successfully advances the Submission – my Escape progress will reset.
- [when in ANY Green prompt or Advancement gate status on the screen] (click) LS in ANY direction - my Escape progress in ALL directions decreases by 1/5. Exception: when Green prompt on the screen click LS in its direction - to delete Attacker’s Submission chain opportunity.
- [when NO Green prompt on the screen] (click) LS in any direction – my Escape progress in ALL directions decreases by 1/5.
- [when Green prompt on the screen] (click) LS in CORRECT Green prompt’s direction FIRST (before the Attacker) – the submission chaining opportunity for Attacker is lost (Green prompt disappears).
- [when Green prompt on the screen] (click) LS in Defender (click) LS inWRONG direction to deny Submission chainWRONG direction to deny Green prompt – then I will not be able to (click) LS in the correct direction (Submission chain deny will not be available) and my Escape progress decrease by 1/5. Defender is NOT ALLOWED to wrong input!
Not used: all other buttons.
COLORS:
- L/R – signals about LS or RS; Color – signals about L/R for whom (besides their “Corner” Stamina bar/gloves color).
- “R” has solid Defenseman color.
- when Defenseman is pushing out Escape gates by RS – “R” become solid Attacker’s color light; this section has solid Defenseman’s color.
- when Attacker blocking Defenseman’s Escape gates by RS – “R” become blinking color light; this section has solid Defenseman’s color.
- “L” arc (Advancement gate) has solid Attacker color.

39) SUBMISSION OFFENSE (I am the Attacker):
Advancement gate (Advancement opportunity) = Fighter’s color prompt with Vibration (arc with “L”).
Submission chain gate = Green prompt with Vibration (green arc with “L”), it exists during all the time of the current Submission stage while it activated by Attacker or blocked by Defender.
Stamina cost: no
Depends on (interval length between “L” appears):
- SA: Attacker has more Stamina than Defenseman
- Fighters stats & abilities.
RS – (NA)(holding) in any direction - blocking Defenseman’s Escape gates; BETTER holding direction by RS BEFORE opponent’s actions; BETTER slide RS along the hole’s edge – especially between adjacent sectors.
- Not usage: RS (circling along the hole’s edge) – counting, but too brief to prevent escaping.
- [when NO Advancement gate] (click) LS in any direction – pushing out Defenseman’s Escape gates in ALL directions by 1/5.
- [when Advancement gate on the screen] (click) LS in CORRECT Advancement gate direction – to advance the Submission to next stage.
- [when Advancement gate on the screen] (click) LS in Defender (click) LS inWRONG direction to deny Submission chainWRONG direction to advance the Submission – then I will not be able to (click) LS in the correct direction (Blue prompt disappear) and pushing out Defenseman’s Escape gates in ALL directions by 1/5.
- [when NO Green prompt on the screen] (click) LS in any direction except Advancement gate direction – pushing out Defenseman’s Escape gates in ALL directions by 1/5.
- [when Green prompt on the screen] (click)LS in CORRECT Green prompt’s direction FIRST (before the Defender) – perform Submission chain to for switch to more advanced Submission stage (Green prompt disappears).
- [when Green prompt on the screen] (click) LS in Defender (click) LS inWRONG direction to deny Submission chainWRONG direction to deny Green prompt – then I still will be able to (click) LS in the correct direction (Submission chain is still available) and pushing out Defenseman’s Escape gates in ALL directions by 1/5. Attacker is ALLOWED to wrong input!
Not used: all other buttons.
Each Submission must be advanced in a certain number of stages to submit the opponent. Some Submissions have fewer stages than others!
SUBMISSION CHAIN (Green prompt):
Some submissions can be chained into a deeper stage of another submission.

STRATEGY – SUBMISSION OFFENSE:
1. Lock on the first Submission even if i don't think i will get it > pay close attention to the players escape pattern. There are only 2 or 3 major patterns that people use.
2. When i lock on the next few Submissions: try to anticipate their escapes based on their previous pattern - don't just play catch up, jump to the next submission escape gate before him.
3. Focus my eyes on the center of the screen and use my peripheral vision to look for the cue to advance to the next stage (it's much more difficult if i dart my eyes around looking for the cue).
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**RuggedRuffRaw** · 06-14-2016, 05:47 PM

Re: Submission gates going back inwards?

Yeah, their going inwards if the defender spams on the left stick. But I find the penalty for it a bit hard. As the attacker you have a great advantage hitting it, saving at least 2 gates. You are watching out for gates anyway. As the defender, you could just DENY the chain, and have normally nothing to do with the left stick. If you do deny it wrong, you get a gate penalty and being rendered unable to hit it again at the right time. I think it should be more than in one of two following ways:

1. Keep all penalties like they are now. But when you as a defender hit the green chain, you should either escape the sub directly or get an advantage on your gates.
You also should be able to deny a "normal" advance in a way that it disappears if you hit it first, and comes back a short period after it (like now if you hit the green chain).

2. Reduce the penalties. Let them not advance gates on a left stick input, or reduce the gates on a miss but let them try to hit it again.

Either of this ways seems more balanced to me, as it is easy enough to get these SC Kimuras or Flying whatever from the clinch.

**Ksearyback** · 06-14-2016, 10:34 PM

Re: Submission gates going back inwards?

Originally posted by SUGATA

My copy-past from my journal, may be helpful:

 SUBMISSION INITIATION:
Stamina cost: drain Stamina by filling Transition meter (holding RS). Possible to initiate even on 0% Stamina.
Depends on (faster TM): the same as Grappling.
(holding)L2 (to see if Submissions are available from my current position) (L2+L1 for Clinch Flying submission) + (holding)RS in appropriate (indicated) direction – initiate Submission attempt by filling TM.

SUBMISSION DEFENSE (I am the Defender):
Stamina cost: no
Depends on (Escape gate speed):
- SA: Defenseman has more Stamina than Attacker
- Fighters stats & abilities.
RS – (NA)(holding) in any direction - pushing out Escape gates; BETTER holding direction by RS BEFORE opponent’s actions; BETTER slide RS along the hole’s edge – especially between adjacent sectors. (become solid Attacker’s color light “R”).
- slow RS (circling along the hole’s edge) – counting, may using for quickly changing directions to escape.
Defender: never use LS, except ONLY when Green prompt is on the screen (to deny Attacker’s ability to Submission chain!
- IF Escape gate advancement is blocked by Attacker – Escape gate advancement stops and start blinking “R”.
- IF Attacker successfully advances the Submission – my Escape progress will reset.
- [when in ANY Green prompt or Advancement gate status on the screen] (click) LS in ANY direction - my Escape progress in ALL directions decreases by 1/5. Exception: when Green prompt on the screen click LS in its direction - to delete Attacker’s Submission chain opportunity.
- [when NO Green prompt on the screen] (click) LS in any direction – my Escape progress in ALL directions decreases by 1/5.
- [when Green prompt on the screen] (click) LS in CORRECT Green prompt’s direction FIRST (before the Attacker) – the submission chaining opportunity for Attacker is lost (Green prompt disappears).
- [when Green prompt on the screen] (click) LS in Defender (click) LS inWRONG direction to deny Submission chainWRONG direction to deny Green prompt – then I will not be able to (click) LS in the correct direction (Submission chain deny will not be available) and my Escape progress decrease by 1/5. Defender is NOT ALLOWED to wrong input!
Not used: all other buttons.
COLORS:
- L/R – signals about LS or RS; Color – signals about L/R for whom (besides their “Corner” Stamina bar/gloves color).
- “R” has solid Defenseman color.
- when Defenseman is pushing out Escape gates by RS – “R” become solid Attacker’s color light; this section has solid Defenseman’s color.
- when Attacker blocking Defenseman’s Escape gates by RS – “R” become blinking color light; this section has solid Defenseman’s color.
- “L” arc (Advancement gate) has solid Attacker color.

39) SUBMISSION OFFENSE (I am the Attacker):
Advancement gate (Advancement opportunity) = Fighter’s color prompt with Vibration (arc with “L”).
Submission chain gate = Green prompt with Vibration (green arc with “L”), it exists during all the time of the current Submission stage while it activated by Attacker or blocked by Defender.
Stamina cost: no
Depends on (interval length between “L” appears):
- SA: Attacker has more Stamina than Defenseman
- Fighters stats & abilities.
RS – (NA)(holding) é/ê/ç/è - blocking Defenseman’s Escape gates; BETTER holding direction by RS BEFORE opponent’s actions; BETTER slide RS along the hole’s edge – especially between adjacent sectors.
- Not usage: RS (circling along the hole’s edge) – counting, but too brief to prevent escaping.
- [when NO Advancement gate] (click) LS in any direction – pushing out Defenseman’s Escape gates in ALL directions by 1/5.
- [when Advancement gate on the screen] (click) LS in CORRECT Advancement gate direction – to advance the Submission to next stage.
- [when Advancement gate on the screen] (click) LS in Defender (click) LS inWRONG direction to deny Submission chainWRONG direction to advance the Submission – then I will not be able to (click) LS in the correct direction (Blue prompt disappear) and pushing out Defenseman’s Escape gates in ALL directions by 1/5.
- [when NO Green prompt on the screen] (click) LS in any direction except Advancement gate direction – pushing out Defenseman’s Escape gates in ALL directions by 1/5.
- [when Green prompt on the screen] (click)LS in CORRECT Green prompt’s direction FIRST (before the Defender) – perform Submission chain to for switch to more advanced Submission stage (Green prompt disappears).
- [when Green prompt on the screen] (click) LS in Defender (click) LS inWRONG direction to deny Submission chainWRONG direction to deny Green prompt – then I still will be able to (click) LS in the correct direction (Submission chain is still available) and pushing out Defenseman’s Escape gates in ALL directions by 1/5. Attacker is ALLOWED to wrong input!
Not used: all other buttons.
Each Submission must be advanced in a certain number of stages to submit the opponent. Some Submissions have fewer stages than others!
SUBMISSION CHAIN (Green prompt):
Some submissions can be chained into a deeper stage of another submission.

STRATEGY – SUBMISSION OFFENSE:
1. Lock on the first Submission even if i don't think i will get it > pay close attention to the players escape pattern. There are only 2 or 3 major patterns that people use.
2. When i lock on the next few Submissions: try to anticipate their escapes based on their previous pattern - don't just play catch up, jump to the next submission escape gate before him.
3. Focus my eyes on the center of the screen and use my peripheral vision to look for the cue to advance to the next stage (it's much more difficult if i dart my eyes around looking for the cue).
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So... This seems like there is some real gold in here. As someone who loves the satisfaction of a submission far more than any other way of winning, I appreciate the information shared in these notes. Unfortunately, most of this reads like a foreign language. Anyone want to take a few minutes to summarize without using all the acronyms, and full (or close to full) sentences?

Thank you to he who is courageous enough to translate!

**Dave_S** · 06-14-2016, 10:42 PM

Re: Submission gates going back inwards?

Number 3 at the very bottom of his post did wonders for me. Someone posted that for ufc 1 and it works just as well since subs are the same.

**RuggedRuffRaw** · 06-15-2016, 06:18 AM

Re: Submission gates going back inwards?

Originally posted by Ksearyback

So... This seems like there is some real gold in here. As someone who loves the satisfaction of a submission far more than any other way of winning, I appreciate the information shared in these notes. Unfortunately, most of this reads like a foreign language. Anyone want to take a few minutes to summarize without using all the acronyms, and full (or close to full) sentences?

Thank you to he who is courageous enough to translate!

Is it just me or does someone else have a problem reading it? I can read it flawless. So what is your specific question, because I don't know what i should "translate" here? I think triggers and sticks should be clear.
RS = Right Stick; LS = Left Stick; LB Left Button (L1); RB Right Button (R1); LT Left Trigger (L2); RT right Trigger (R2)
TM is "Transition Meter" or "Transition Moment", How fast your gates fill.
SA Stamina advantage

anything else?

**Ksearyback** · 06-15-2016, 07:28 AM

Re: Submission gates going back inwards?

Originally posted by RuggedRuffRaw

Is it just me or does someone else have a problem reading it? I can read it flawless. So what is your specific question, because I don't know what i should "translate" here? I think triggers and sticks should be clear.
RS = Right Stick; LS = Left Stick; LB Left Button (L1); RB Right Button (R1); LT Left Trigger (L2); RT right Trigger (R2)
TM is "Transition Meter" or "Transition Moment", How fast your gates fill.
SA Stamina advantage

anything else?

Yeah, so I just cut/paste a short section.

"- Fighters stats & abilities.
RS – (NA)(holding) é/ê/ç/è - blocking Defenseman’s Escape gates; BETTER holding direction by RS BEFORE opponent’s actions; BETTER slide RS along the hole’s edge – especially between adjacent sectors.
- Not usage: RS (circling along the hole’s edge) – counting, but too brief to prevent escaping."

My questions:
1.) first line is not a sentence. I have no idea to what it refers
2.) what is NA? Non-Alcoholic?
3.) /ê/ç/è (Not sure how to even ask this question)
4.) the rest is saying something about using right stick (RS) and whatever he suggests is very important as 'BETTER' is capitalized, but not really clear what we're talking about. (See below for more specific confusion)
5.) What does he mean by "not usage?" and what is the context?
6.) last sentence: Right stick circling around the hole is edge. (Not sentence, what hole? Why is the hole an edge?
7.) what are we counting? And why count if it's too brief to prevent escaping?

That's just one section. If you don't want to briefly summarize his notes, fine. No need to be a jack *** about it because it confuses me

**SUGATA** · 06-15-2016, 01:20 PM

Re: Submission gates going back inwards?

Originally posted by Ksearyback

Yeah, so I just cut/paste a short section.

"- Fighters stats & abilities.
RS – (NA)(holding) é/ê/ç/è - blocking Defenseman’s Escape gates; BETTER holding direction by RS BEFORE opponent’s actions; BETTER slide RS along the hole’s edge – especially between adjacent sectors.
- Not usage: RS (circling along the hole’s edge) – counting, but too brief to prevent escaping."

My questions:
1.) first line is not a sentence. I have no idea to what it refers
2.) what is NA? Non-Alcoholic?
3.) /ê/ç/è (Not sure how to even ask this question)
4.) the rest is saying something about using right stick (RS) and whatever he suggests is very important as 'BETTER' is capitalized, but not really clear what we're talking about. (See below for more specific confusion)
5.) What does he mean by "not usage?" and what is the context?
6.) last sentence: Right stick circling around the hole is edge. (Not sentence, what hole? Why is the hole an edge?
7.) what are we counting? And why count if it's too brief to prevent escaping?

That's just one section. If you don't want to briefly summarize his notes, fine. No need to be a jack *** about it because it confuses me

Guys, excuse me for some difficulties, but it was a copy past of my notes for myself. I was not going to make a guide, just quick copy past.
I will try to fix it:
2) NA - not analog - i.e. analog stick turn degree does not matter, the input is digital. for ex, walking has (A) analog LS - more tilt degree - more speed.
3) /ê/ç/è - is a symbols arrows in word that was not converted properly: up, down, left, right - i.e. any direction.
4) BETTER to holding directions before actual opponent's actions y nticipation of his next move and react to yr anticipation not on real actual switching sides to save time - move pre-emptively.
5) Not (No) usage - i.e. not using: the buttons that are inactive in this context.
6) Check clock with 12 hours.
You can change directions by click 12 then click 3, but u can to do THE SAME much quicker by circling a bit from 1:00 to 2:00 where 1:30 is a separating line between 12 and 3. No releasing RS, no clicking RS, just a bit circling tilted holded RS. It is much faster and still counting as a separate input!
7) I tested a possible exploit when u can circling RS in 360 degree very fast and it will block sub fighter's escapes more effectively then clicking in his escape direction on reaction. After tests i can say that this does not work, because this inputs are "counting, but too brief to prevent escaping."

**Bassi** · 06-15-2016, 03:30 PM

Re: Submission gates going back inwards?

The best way to get out of subs is to use 3 gates, not 2, not 4 from personal experience.

Two gates you are predicable

Four gates you waste too much time

Three gates is a good medium.

Try not to escape using gates next to each other i.e., Left Down, Left Up etc. Try to switch between opposite sides.

And yes, focus your eyes on the center of the screen. It does help.

**SUGATA** · 06-15-2016, 04:47 PM

Re: Submission gates going back inwards?

Originally posted by Bassi

The best way to get out of subs is to use 3 gates, not 2, not 4 from personal experience.

Two gates you are predicable

Four gates you waste too much time

Three gates is a good medium.

Try not to escape using gates next to each other i.e., Left Down, Left Up etc. Try to switch between opposite sides.

And yes, focus your eyes on the center of the screen. It does help.

Thank you.

There is very important a Fake game with directions - create patterns that are baiting your opponent to release your main direction.

EA UFC Submission system is the best ever created in MMA games.
Now grappling system is the best ever created in MMA games.
The ONLY thing you need to redone is Stand up Striking: with Strike advantage, dynamic frame data based on real life factors, hit stuns based on strike dmg (hit stun = immobilize, no block), side turned situations, 2 types of side step - defensive step to evade linear & half circular strikes and offensive step to get to opponent's side as anti turtle tool but w/o evasive properties) - all this info exist in 1st post here:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...scussions.html

**Ksearyback** · 06-15-2016, 05:38 PM

Re: Submission gates going back inwards?

Originally posted by SUGATA

Guys, excuse me for some difficulties, but it was a copy past of my notes for myself. I was not going to make a guide, just quick copy past.
I will try to fix it:
2) NA - not analog - i.e. analog stick turn degree does not matter, the input is digital. for ex, walking has (A) analog LS - more tilt degree - more speed.
3) /ê/ç/è - is a symbols arrows in word that was not converted properly: up, down, left, right - i.e. any direction.
4) BETTER to holding directions before actual opponent's actions y nticipation of his next move and react to yr anticipation not on real actual switching sides to save time - move pre-emptively.
5) Not (No) usage - i.e. not using: the buttons that are inactive in this context.
6) Check clock with 12 hours.
You can change directions by click 12 then click 3, but u can to do THE SAME much quicker by circling a bit from 1:00 to 2:00 where 1:30 is a separating line between 12 and 3. No releasing RS, no clicking RS, just a bit circling tilted holded RS. It is much faster and still counting as a separate input!
7) I tested a possible exploit when u can circling RS in 360 degree very fast and it will block sub fighter's escapes more effectively then clicking in his escape direction on reaction. After tests i can say that this does not work, because this inputs are "counting, but too brief to prevent escaping."

Sugata,
You are the man. Thank you for the clarification; I truly meant no disrespect. I was honestly confused about something I really want to understand. This really helps (assuming i understand).

- can you explain the functional difference or importance about the analog stick with a digital input? Is this what the remaining points address? Would greatly appreciate if you could confirm that my takeaways are accurate:

1.) Basically, you can move in a circular motion to get from point A to B, moving around the outside of the right stick rim? If defender goes from 3 to 9, I believe you are saying the most effective block (if I'm attacking with a submission) is to circle all the way around -- hitting each number -- on the way to blocking 9. Is this correct?
2.) when I attempt a submission, my opponent can begin his escape in one of 4 directions (3 o'clock, 6, 9, and 12). I am better off guessing one of the four and sitting there waiting rather than be reactionary on stage one. Correct?
3.) hope you can pick up on a pattern and do your best to guess or use informed judgement as to where the defense will be next based on pattern recognition
4.) sorry, I'm an idiot. I still do not understand point number 6. What do you mean pointing vs walking? (Hold up, I think I got it just as I wrote that. To block a defensive attempt of 12 --> 3, I can slightly move RS from ~1 to 2 as the computer registers the change when you cross the mid line between 1&2). Am I on to something here???

This is great. Thanks!

Submission gates going back inwards?

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