New and Easy Idea For Submissions

[mccclan]

Hopefully the dev will read this and give some insight into if this is a good idea or if it's possible. I'd also like feedback from players. My idea is submission openings via what the opponent does. Submissions are often the result of a mistake by the opponent opening a certain area, they call BJJ human chess for a reason. I think a system in which we can look for submissions (maybe make these submission two gates) based off reacting, just like the couple reversals in the game that we do have, but more in depth. Here are some examples I can think of:

1. Armbar from mount postured up.
Anybody that trains BJJ can tell you that having your elbows high while in mount is an armbar death sentence. So in this case, when the mount SUB holds block to block the punches, this cause his elbows to elevate off the mat. Then, the mount DOM can go for a quick arm bar.

2. Triangle for guard posture down.
In this case, the guard DOM will attempt to pass to half guard by pressing the leg down, like the current animation. Since the arm is already applying pressure to one leg, the guard SUB could have an opportunity to push that arm through to try a triangle.

3. D'arce for Half guard DOM any posture.
In this case, the half guard SUB will attempt a back take or a sweep using their underhook. The half guard Dom will have an opportunity to wizard the underhook and slide it under the SUB neck for a D'arce chance.

3. Arm triangle from side control DOM.
In this case, when side control SUB goes to block punches (which currently aren't in the game) his far side arm will come up, similar to the block animation from side saddle. This will open up a chance to set up an arm triangle.


There are already many transition reaction counters, like the pass to side control if the guard SUB tries the getup animation to the left or right, or the double under counter off a takedown. Also there are a few submission reaction counters like takedown counters and the sprawl guillotine. Therefore, I don't think this would be hard to add for the next game at all. I know they will probably focus on striking, but if they leave the ground game the way it is and just add dozens of new animations and stuff, specifically the kind I mentioned to it, I'd be happy and content.

[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: New and Easy Idea For Submissions

Hopefully the dev will read this and give some insight into if this is a good idea or if it's possible. I'd also like feedback from players. My idea is submission openings via what the opponent does. Submissions are often the result of a mistake by the opponent opening a certain area, they call BJJ human chess for a reason. I think a system in which we can look for submissions (maybe make these submission two gates) based off reacting, just like the couple reversals in the game that we do have, but more in depth. Here are some examples I can think of:

1. Armbar from mount postured up.
Anybody that trains BJJ can tell you that having your elbows high while in mount is an armbar death sentence. So in this case, when the mount SUB holds block to block the punches, this cause his elbows to elevate off the mat. Then, the mount DOM can go for a quick arm bar.

2. Triangle for guard posture down.
In this case, the guard DOM will attempt to pass to half guard by pressing the leg down, like the current animation. Since the arm is already applying pressure to one leg, the guard SUB could have an opportunity to push that arm through to try a triangle.

3. D'arce for Half guard DOM any posture.
In this case, the half guard SUB will attempt a back take or a sweep using their underhook. The half guard Dom will have an opportunity to wizard the underhook and slide it under the SUB neck for a D'arce chance.

3. Arm triangle from side control DOM.
In this case, when side control SUB goes to block punches (which currently aren't in the game) his far side arm will come up, similar to the block animation from side saddle. This will open up a chance to set up an arm triangle.


There are already many transition reaction counters, like the pass to side control if the guard SUB tries the getup animation to the left or right, or the double under counter off a takedown. Also there are a few submission reaction counters like takedown counters and the sprawl guillotine. Therefore, I don't think this would be hard to add for the next game at all. I know they will probably focus on striking, but if they leave the ground game the way it is and just add dozens of new animations and stuff, specifically the kind I mentioned to it, I'd be happy and content.

Yup, I agree we need many more transition counter submissions, the only ones we have now that I know is the guillotine from sprawl getup and the heel hook from guard getup

[HereticGabriel]

Re: New and Easy Idea For Submissions

I think the arm bar from mount although realistic, game wise I think it'd be too much... What's the sub to do? Eat punches and get stunned and not able to transition, unless they manage to get an arm trap, or block and get thrown into a 2 gate sub?

As for 3.. Side control can already be a death sentence for some people, 2, 3 gate subs, only 2 ways to transition.. Adding a quicker sub I think would be overkill as well..

[Haz____]

Re: New and Easy Idea For Submissions

I love these ideas. Amazing post!

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: New and Easy Idea For Submissions

There definitely needs to be more to it. Some instances involve a mistake by the fighter, others the submitter has to pry the opponent's limb in position. But I don't like the gates system at all. This current sub system is pretty terrible imo and lacks any thrill.

[mccclan]

Re: New and Easy Idea For Submissions

I think the arm bar from mount although realistic, game wise I think it'd be too much... What's the sub to do? Eat punches and get stunned and not able to transition, unless they manage to get an arm trap, or block and get thrown into a 2 gate sub?

As for 3.. Side control can already be a death sentence for some people, 2, 3 gate subs, only 2 ways to transition.. Adding a quicker sub I think would be overkill as well..

Yeah with the current game I agree with you. It would need to be balanced like all other aspects. These are just raw ideas to expand the ground game and encourage a more diverse possible outcome of what happens. Everything I've said can be applied differently to sweeps. (Like the way most transition reversals are now). Hey if I knew how to incorporate everything like this perfectly in the game id be working for EA lol I'm just tossing ideas.

[SpartanZombieXD]

Re: New and Easy Idea For Submissions

Yup, I agree we need many more transition counter submissions, the only ones we have now that I know is the guillotine from sprawl getup and the heel hook from guard getup

Dont forget The Kneebar from half guard (when SUB tries to take your back)

[WhoDatNinja]

Re: New and Easy Idea For Submissions

I think it'd be cool if they kept the same system but made it just 1 gate, with faster defensive gates. Only 2 gate ones would be submission switches, which wouldhave the added benefit ofa quicker first gate so it could be used more strategically. Since it would be so volatile, they'd have to be easily blocked, like holding low block defends against sub attempts. This way you have to pick your poison if you're going to block head punches or defend the sub. Since itd only be one gate it would be a deep attempt, so going for it and missing would almost always land you in a worse spot.

In real life you never really see people slowly struggling to get a sub, its usually like the one guy is holding the arm to prevent it until he slips up and lets the arm get under the chin, at which point he either explodes out or taps.

[Ksearyback]

Re: New and Easy Idea For Submissions

Hopefully the dev will read this and give some insight into if this is a good idea or if it's possible. I'd also like feedback from players. My idea is submission openings via what the opponent does. Submissions are often the result of a mistake by the opponent opening a certain area, they call BJJ human chess for a reason. I think a system in which we can look for submissions (maybe make these submission two gates) based off reacting, just like the couple reversals in the game that we do have, but more in depth. Here are some examples I can think of:

1. Armbar from mount postured up.
Anybody that trains BJJ can tell you that having your elbows high while in mount is an armbar death sentence. So in this case, when the mount SUB holds block to block the punches, this cause his elbows to elevate off the mat. Then, the mount DOM can go for a quick arm bar.

2. Triangle for guard posture down.
In this case, the guard DOM will attempt to pass to half guard by pressing the leg down, like the current animation. Since the arm is already applying pressure to one leg, the guard SUB could have an opportunity to push that arm through to try a triangle.

3. D'arce for Half guard DOM any posture.
In this case, the half guard SUB will attempt a back take or a sweep using their underhook. The half guard Dom will have an opportunity to wizard the underhook and slide it under the SUB neck for a D'arce chance.

3. Arm triangle from side control DOM.
In this case, when side control SUB goes to block punches (which currently aren't in the game) his far side arm will come up, similar to the block animation from side saddle. This will open up a chance to set up an arm triangle.


There are already many transition reaction counters, like the pass to side control if the guard SUB tries the getup animation to the left or right, or the double under counter off a takedown. Also there are a few submission reaction counters like takedown counters and the sprawl guillotine. Therefore, I don't think this would be hard to add for the next game at all. I know they will probably focus on striking, but if they leave the ground game the way it is and just add dozens of new animations and stuff, specifically the kind I mentioned to it, I'd be happy and content.

Good ideas.

Even if the exact submissions aren't used the global idea of creating a way to capitalize on openings makes a lot of sense. For each (or many) transitions in the game, there should be a small and safer move, and a high risk/high reward move in which a submission is often a counter.