Old Timer waiting/wanting advice

[SloeyEZ]

Hi everyone, not sure if anyone I knew years ago are still around, but I'm an old Head Coach lover, buying Madden every few years as it makes adjustments to match the glory of Head Coach (Hey, allow me my golden memories/daydreaming i.e. the good ol' days)

I had M16 and once I switched off the QB so that they would scramble was "satisfied" with the coaching mode of M16 by calling the first D play suggested and acting as HC/OC for my team. Not quite Head Coach obviously but, I did end up playing 4 years of CFM offline.

So, that's where I'm coming from. I LOVE the draft and team management, like to call Offense but wish I had a DC to handle defense entirely/automatically, and NEVER control players (Autosimmed kicks and punts) Like I said, enough to finally get me to buy Madden again after a few years of sniveling whining after HC09.

Finally, (yes I'm long-winded, always have been) the advice I'm seeking is more or less when to buy M17 (if even necessary over M16). I've read about the slow sim mode, which seems VERY much like Head Coach? (If not, PLEASE let me know what is really going on in this mode and if you think I'll like it) although I don't think you can call plays during it, which is great on Defense, but I would really like to call my offensive plays. Is this how that mode works?

But what concerns me most and instigated this thread is that I've been reading through the impressions and bugs threads and it seems like there is a LOT more going on this year than normal. I was already pretty much planning on waiting until October when that first BIG patch comes out anyway, but again, it seems like there are far more issues with this Madden that will not be fixed by October/November. (Would anyone suggest sticking with M16? Which I haven't played since last Spring btw.)

Agree? Disagree? Recommendations? Thanks for listening. Thanks for your opinion.

[Hooe]

Re: Old Timer waiting/wanting advice

The mode you're referring to is "Play The Moments". Leveraging a rebuilt super-sim engine, it allows you to play only the critical moments of your franchise games - possessions in the red zone, key 3rd downs, two-minute drills, moments where you need a defensive stop, etc. Think of it like a playable version of NFL Red Zone channel.

Play The Moments provides you with a few different options - play key moments (what I described above), play offense only (all defensive plays are simulated), play defense only (all offensive plays are simulated), and "slow" mode (you watch the CPU play itself; you don't call plays or otherwise interact with the game at all). Finally, you change change the simulation speed and the amount of interaction you want at any time. If you play offense only on fast speed but decide you want to watch the CPU try to mount its final drive against your defense in a close game, you can do that on a whim.

In Madden 17, as far as I know, "coach mode" behaves as it did in the past; basically a QB auto-throw option. I imagine you can use Play The Moments - Offense Only in conjunction with "coach mode" to get an experience analogous to playing as an offensive coordinator in NCAA Football 14.

Other people can tell you otherwise, but for me personally Madden 17 has been the most functional, most complete, least buggy, and most compelling version of Madden yet, especially from a play-calling perspective. I enjoyed M16 thoroughly but haven't had a itch to play it since June (when I first played this year's game at EA PLAY). I say jump in.

[capa]

Re: Old Timer waiting/wanting advice

I am an old-timer as well and I will tell you that although this year has taken a few steps forward, many of the issues still plague the game such as players not having sideline awareness, fumbles recorded as incomplete passes when QB sacked, incomplete passes recorded as fumbles when QB sacked, challenge system is still not right, pass rush can be non-existent, etc. If you look at the slider forum you will see dozens of sets trying to combat some of these issues as well as others to get realistic gameplay on the field.

I am also just a Coach only player and sometimes just cpu vs cpu. I can tell you that the Coach mode is unchanged...you still have to kick and punt, or sim those plays. I will also tell you that it is harder than ever to get a slider set that works well in these modes. The game is designed for head to head and each year there are more noticeable issues with cpu AI and play on the field.

I do not dabble in the hardcore detailed CFM things...so I can't comment on that. But from a gameplay point of view, I think if you are happy with 16 you may want to wait to see what the upcoming patch does for 17. Hopefully it will address a lot of what was mentioned.

C

[numberFour4ever]

Re: Old Timer waiting/wanting advice

It's the best version of the game since Madden 2005.

But it has a long way to go to be as good as Madden 2005. The only real improvement over 2005 are the amazing graphics.

I'm still playing on PC and hoping for better things for '18.

[SloeyEZ]

Re: Old Timer waiting/wanting advice

Thanks, Hooe. I was referring to the bugs in the multiple threads as well as in the official bug thread, but I do understand that bugs can be quite the personal issue and not exist across the board.

Has the sim engine been fixed? You couldn't use it last year because of wild stats and play during autosim. If so, then simming D and playing O in the sim mode you describe sounds enticing.

Yes, finding sliders for "coach mode" is difficult, but I found iiamcb's sliders quite good in creating realistic stats. Unfortunately, I can't find sliders by him this year. If someone has equivalent sliders for not controlling (any) player, I'd love to get a link. How do sliders affect the sim engine? That seems like a whole new can of worms :\ I'd love to be told that sliders don't affect the simengine Hooe?

Thanks again.

[NoleFan]

Re: Old Timer waiting/wanting advice

I too am a coach mode player. I've been back and forth between coach mode and cpu vs. cpu this year since it's back in Madden officially and it's VERY good.

I think for you Sloey, Madden 17 with Play the Moments: Offense Only would be exactly what you're looking for. You'd call all of the plays offensively and defense would be super simmed. Most of special teams as well unless the game deems a particular special teams play as offense. Ha I'd recommend using 'Slow' sim speed to watch defense and special teams in broadcast for more immersion.

I don't like to call any plays because stringing them together to run a system is not my strong suit. I'm more of a team building head coach that provides input into the overall game plan but doesn't want to be down in the weeds with the play calling.

[mrCPUgeek]

Old Timer waiting/wanting advice

My only issue with sim mode on slow, is I wish you could still be "head coach" during that. Say you want to challenge a play or call a time out. Or override a play on a forth down situation, you have no control over that. It injury management during the game. That is why, on defense I went back to regular mode and call the recommended play and let the CPU control my player.


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[NoleFan]

Re: Old Timer waiting/wanting advice

My only issue with sim mode on slow, is I wish you could still be "head coach" during that. Say you want to challenge a play or call a time out. Or override a play on a forth down situation, you have no control over that. It injury management during the game. That is why, on defense I went back to regular mode and call the recommended play and let the CPU control my player.


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All valid points!


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[mlb61]

Re: Old Timer waiting/wanting advice

It's the best version of the game since Madden 2005.

But it has a long way to go to be as good as Madden 2005. The only real improvement over 2005 are the amazing graphics.

I'm still playing on PC and hoping for better things for '18.

The game play and on-field results of 17 are far, far ahead of 2005. You may like 2005 for other reasons, but as far as what happens on the field, this is the best version of Madden ever.

[mlb61]

Re: Old Timer waiting/wanting advice

Thanks, Hooe. I was referring to the bugs in the multiple threads as well as in the official bug thread, but I do understand that bugs can be quite the personal issue and not exist across the board.

Has the sim engine been fixed? You couldn't use it last year because of wild stats and play during autosim. If so, then simming D and playing O in the sim mode you describe sounds enticing.

Yes, finding sliders for "coach mode" is difficult, but I found iiamcb's sliders quite good in creating realistic stats. Unfortunately, I can't find sliders by him this year. If someone has equivalent sliders for not controlling (any) player, I'd love to get a link. How do sliders affect the sim engine? That seems like a whole new can of worms :\ I'd love to be told that sliders don't affect the simengine Hooe?

Thanks again.

As the man said, 17 is the least buggy version of Madden to date (with HC09, which I wore out a controller playing, probably the most buggy).

Yes, the sim engine has been fixed. Results are realistic. I play coach mode on the default sliders and the game seems just fine.

[cityofchampions]

Re: Old Timer waiting/wanting advice

The game play and on-field results of 17 are far, far ahead of 2005. You may like 2005 for other reasons, but as far as what happens on the field, this is the best version of Madden ever.

Exactly. Madden 17 is very far ahead of 2005. Both football games from 2005.


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[deu22ces]

Re: Old Timer waiting/wanting advice

wait, how are we defining "old timer"? i played the original PC game with my dad as a kid. Does that make me an "old timer" or are we talking chronological age here? Lol, just curious where i stand in the Madden Universe at my "advanced" age.

Ever since Head Coach came out, I've been hoping they would "marry" the two games. Not a perfect game at all but imagine fine tuning the coach aspects of that games' coding/ideas and combining that with the graphics we have now.

If you need your NFL fix, the game is probably EA's best effort since the Ps2 days (thought '12 was on right track b4 they made the "CFM" blunder). **However, in the manner you enjoy playing the game**, "coaching" is not even close yet to "Sim" or real life. I've been a real life coach for 10 years now so I may be overly critical and/or knowledgeable, but every single coaching aspect they "represent" in the game is either broken, poorly implemented, not realistic, crashes your system, lacks immersion, or just flat out makes you say "huh?". The front of the box says "Franchise Mode New ways to play and deeper than ever". Those are marketing lies and very insulting (imo, of course, so as not to ruffle feathers here). It looks like they add the top 4-5 things the community requests the most to say "here, we put it in", but that appears to be the only priority. Getting it right and authentic is not the priority.

Aside from that I like to control players on the field, we are probably very similar in our coaching expectations of the game. I am not saying i regret buying the game (not yet, so long as they manage to fix the game) but I am disappointed and frustrated once again. If EA hadn't made such bold claims this year, I would probably be just disappointed. And yes, no matter what others say, this game is filled with "bugs". Not accusing because I am not there, but as a consumer, it feels like they do not thoroughly test tweaks made to Franchise Mode for function and stability.

Last thing, as far as buying, waiting like you do/have is probably a good idea until you read how the "big patch" fully affects the game. I have gotten the "blue error" crash many times to where I find myself not wanting to turn the game on at this point. I use the PS4 for just about every other function it offers and never had one freeze or crash until this game. Combine that with the exhaustive time it takes to set the game up for any decent realism. take my thoughts fwiw to you.

[SloeyEZ]

Re: Old Timer waiting/wanting advice

Thanks, has anyone discovered any info on sliders and the sim modes? My go to slider guy for coach mode from last year (iiamcb) doesn't seem to be doing sliders this year

[numberFour4ever]

Re: Old Timer waiting/wanting advice

The game play and on-field results of 17 are far, far ahead of 2005. You may like 2005 for other reasons, but as far as what happens on the field, this is the best version of Madden ever.

Gameplay is great, but not the end-all be-all for me.

I need a better franchise mode, '17 isn't up to snuff for me. And I want classic seasons/franchises. Can't get that on '17 either.

'17 is a very good game. It's just not there yet for me.

[SloeyEZ]

Re: Old Timer waiting/wanting advice

A couple quick answers. (Yes, I said quick, but probably won't be that quick)

Deuces, I feel your pain. I was also a high school varsity coach and have been a student of the NFL since Shep was a pup or Christ was a corporal. However, I'm not going to focus on what isn't there or the shortcomings (many shortcomings) of the Madden franchise. It doesn't "seem" like it would be that hard to make a realistic coaching game, and HC back in its time wasn't too bad. But this is a business and HC just didn't bring in the revenue so I'm appreciative of all the HC elements that are finding its way into the game each year. (and I'm more hopeful as each year passes) I don't know if Josh is still on the team or not but I imagine they fight quite a bit for any HC element to be included when that isn't what the Madden franchise is about for the general public. All I can say is that I somewhat enjoyed M16 for a few seasons with calling top suggested D play and my own offensive plays/playbook. Switching to a different player pre-snap allowed my QB to act per his attributes and with iiamcb's sliders, statistics were within normal parameters. M17 seems to once again have more HC elements without losing anything I enjoyed in M16 but I'm just worried more than I have been in past years about what the bug thread is saying about CFM. Especially the CPU changing the roster after preseason.

I will still however wait until the "big" patch comes out (historically in October) because I play solely offline and quite honestly NFL and being a substitute teacher keeps me busy enough to be patient.

As far as being an "oldtimer" goes, I actually meant my time on OS and playing the Madden franchise. I am only 16 years young well that's how old I act if you asked anyone, but have played Madden since year 1 and more importantly XOR NFL football in 1984 which was the beginning of my NFL career. Age is nothing but a number

Thanks for the input guys. I know I'll be disappointed, I know I'll have a few wow moments but the new sim engine seems to make M17 a distinct enough improvement for my style of play.

I also figured out I'm going to use the same sliders (iiamcb) I used for M16 even with the sim engine, I have a feeling they should still work.

See, quick